payload

[VincentL]

I have a 2009 GMC 2500hd diesel. The door sticker indicates a GAWR RR at 6064lbs and GAWR frt at 4860lbs. I am interested in buying an artic fox 811 truck camper with a dry weight of approximately 2873lbs and gross weight of approximately 4000lbs. Will my truck handle this and do I have make modifications. All info is very appreciated...Thanks

[jplante4]

CLOSED

[Siletzspey]

I tried to get some definitive comments about over-weight scenarios from an insurance agent I know, but the reply was generalized to this. The agent said they see cases where one party is essentially out for money, and if said party can find a way to claim negligence or carelessness, its not uncommon to see a 5 or 6 figure settlement. Some parties will try to ascertain your wealth thru public records, and/or what you're covered for, as part of deciding how much to try and extort from you.

--SiletzSpey

[jimh406]

Commercial drivers are held to different standards all of the time. In any case, this “story” makes it’s rounds from time to time. I think we have about as much chance as being cited for being overweight as a car filled to capacity with people who average over 160 with luggage on top. In other words, not much chance.

That being said, I bet I’m always underweight ... so ... there. 😄

[JIMNLIN]

States do have weight laws that apply to all vehicles. Not just commercial trucks.
The lawyer thing posted is correct. Having towed commercially I would add not only can we face a civil lawsuit but dot will impound our vehicles.....issues fines....pull CDLs/etc. However for being over the trucks legal load limit which the truck makers GVWR has no legal implications period. We don't see civil lawsuits/dot tickets in the commercial side of trucking for exceeding a truck makers GVWR....but we sure do if were over the vehicle legal load limit.

All vehicles on the road come under axle/tire load limits (non commercial or commercial).

[Optimistic_Para]

DWeikert wrote:
Obviously, they're talking about commercial trucks here. So as long as your 2 axle pickup scales in at under 32,000 lbs...

You were quoting the section where they were discussing fines for vehicles that weighed more than the law allows to be on their roads. Obviously, these limits are so high that they could only apply to commercial vehicles, not to any of our pickups with campers.

And yes, they specifically said COMMERCIAL TRUCKS when talking about such fines. But did you note that they DID NOT qualify trucks by putting the word 'commercial' in front of it when discussing possible criminal charges for killing someone when driving an overweight vehicle?

Do you honestly believe that commercial drivers could be charged for that, but somehow, magically, you would be immune because you aren't driving a commercial truck?

[DWeikert]

I see the OP has already made up their mind, but just to add a little to the discussion. I have basically the same truck but am carrying a camper that weighs a less than the 811 (no I haven't been to the scales yet). To make the ride acceptable I added Helwig Load Pro springs, replaced the factory shocks, added a rear sway bar and upgraded the tires and wheels from the factory 3042lb rated to 265/75R15 3415lb rated. You are showing wisdom in taking the advice and passing on that camper.

[DWeikert]

Optimistic Paranoid wrote:

burningman wrote:

Not this again. You literally made all of that up.
How about citing one real world example where that ever happened?

From a 2007 Legislative Reference Report prepared for the CT state legislature:

March 20, 2007



2007-R-0214

*CRIMINAL PENALTIES FOR OVERWEIGHT TRUCKS*

By: Zachary Schurin, Legislative Fellow

You asked how Connecticut's criminal penalties for the operation of
overweight trucks compare to the penalties imposed by Massachusetts, New York, and Rhode Island.

*SUMMARY*

Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, and Rhode Island all enforce
maximum truck weight laws through fines. There are no laws in any of
these states that explicitly provide prison terms for maximum weight
violations. However, Connecticut and these other states have criminal
statutes such as manslaughter and assault that can be used against the
owner or operator of an overweight truck.

. . .
*CRIMINAL PENALTIES FOR OVERWEIGHT VEHICLES IN MASSACHUSETTS, NEW YORK
AND RHODE ISLAND*

As is the case with Connecticut criminal law, the absence of specific
statutes in Massachusetts, New York, and Rhode Island regarding the
operation of overweight trucks does not preclude vehicle operators or
owners from criminal prosecution. All three states have laws that punish criminal negligence in its various forms. The ancient legal doctrines of manslaughter and assault are codified in the penal codes of Massachusetts, New York and Rhode Island, and provide the structural basis for charges against owners and operators whose overweight trucks cause accidents that result in death or serious injury.

Had you posted the rest of that...

Maximum Allowable Commercial Vehicle Gross Weights in Connecticut

Two-axle Vehicle
· 32,000 pounds (no axle weight restrictions)
· 36,000 pounds with axle weights limited to 18,000 pounds maximum
· Option to use the Federal Bridge Formula for up to 40,000 pounds
· 40,000 pounds if a four-wheel construction vehicle operating within 25 miles of the construction site

Three-axle Vehicle (Straight Truck-Not a Tractor-Trailer Combination
· 53,800 pounds
· Option to use the Federal Bridge Formula for up to 60,000 pounds

Three-axle Combination of Vehicle and Trailer or Semitrailer
· 58,400 pounds
· Option to use the Federal Bridge Formula for up to 60,000 pounds

Four-axle Vehicle Engaged in Construction Work or Transporting Material or Equipment to a Construction Site
· 73,000 pounds

Four-or-more-axle Straight Vehicle or Vehicle-Trailer Combination
· 67,400 pounds if the wheelbase is less than 28 feet
· 73,000 pounds if the wheelbase is 28 feet or more

Five-or-more-axle Straight Vehicle or Vehicle-Trailer Combination
· 73,000 pounds
· Option to use the Federal Bridge Formula for up to 80,000 pounds

Maximum Allowable Axle Weights
Connecticut's maximum axle weights are the same for all sizes of commercial vehicles. A vehicle cannot have more than 22,400 pounds on a single axle or more than 18,000 pounds on axles spaced less than six feet apart. Thus, the typical "tandem" axle on a truck is under a practical limitation of 36,000 pounds.
CRIMINAL PENALTIES FOR OVERWEIGHT TRUCKS

Obviously, they're talking about commercial trucks here. So as long as your 2 axle pickup scales in at under 32,000 lbs...

[Camper8251]

Not to be rude, but why are we even spinning around on this?

Everything posted for the most part has been posted many times before with the same arguments.

The OP got his answer and basically left the thread saying thanks..

[S_Davis]

Bedlam wrote:
It’s very possible to haul the 811 on a 3/4t. All of these trucks are riding on 10k LB rated rear axles but have softer springs and lower rated wheels which are holding you back.

If you plan to keep the camper on the truck, just replace the axle entire rear spring pack with a a heavier from a place like SDTruckSprings.com If you want keep somewhat of the same unloaded ride, you will need an upper overload string that engages quickly and and a way to preload the entire spring pack by using wedges on your lower overload spring.If you do not both front and rear stabilizer bars on the truck, you will need these to reduce roll regardless of which spring upgrade up choose.

If you do not plan to tow behind the camper there are plenty of tire and rim combinations at or over 3750 lbs that will give you sufficient capacity. If you tow or pack heavy, go to 4500 LB rated 19.5” rims tires that exceed that rim rating (most likely a PR16 LRH 245/70R19.5 tire). This size tire will. E about 33” tall and will require a little work to fit properly in the front of a GM truck, but multiple solutions are well documented here.

The 245/70R/19.5 will fit on a 2013 2500HD Chevy with no modifications. Don't know about older or newer Chevy trucks.

[Optimistic_Para]

burningman wrote:

Not this again. You literally made all of that up.
How about citing one real world example where that ever happened?

From a 2007 Legislative Reference Report prepared for the CT state legislature:

March 20, 2007



2007-R-0214

*CRIMINAL PENALTIES FOR OVERWEIGHT TRUCKS*

By: Zachary Schurin, Legislative Fellow

You asked how Connecticut's criminal penalties for the operation of
overweight trucks compare to the penalties imposed by Massachusetts, New York, and Rhode Island.

*SUMMARY*

Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, and Rhode Island all enforce
maximum truck weight laws through fines. There are no laws in any of
these states that explicitly provide prison terms for maximum weight
violations. However, Connecticut and these other states have criminal
statutes such as manslaughter and assault that can be used against the
owner or operator of an overweight truck.

. . .
*CRIMINAL PENALTIES FOR OVERWEIGHT VEHICLES IN MASSACHUSETTS, NEW YORK
AND RHODE ISLAND*

As is the case with Connecticut criminal law, the absence of specific
statutes in Massachusetts, New York, and Rhode Island regarding the
operation of overweight trucks does not preclude vehicle operators or
owners from criminal prosecution. All three states have laws that punish criminal negligence in its various forms. The ancient legal doctrines of manslaughter and assault are codified in the penal codes of Massachusetts, New York and Rhode Island, and provide the structural basis for charges against owners and operators whose overweight trucks cause accidents that result in death or serious injury.

[3TV]

I have been looking for a camper for my F350 for a while now, and I can't see that Arctic Fox makes any camper that will work with a typical SRW pickup truck. Even their lightest weight camper, the 865, that has no slide out, has a wet weight of 4200 lbs. My F350 with 11,500 lb GVWR has a payload capacity of 3960 lbs.

Part of the problem is the Arctic Fox Value Package that every camper they sell is required to have weighing an extra 600 lbs. Add that to their claimed dry weight, plus the weight of water, LP gas, batteries, and nominal camping supplies, and you are over the payload capacity of almost every SRW pickup. A regular cab XL trim F350 short bed truck may be close though.

I used Truck Camper Magazine's article to come up with wet weights of the campers. https://www.truckcampermagazine.com/buyers-guide/hard-side/arctic-fox-camper/

[d3500ram]

How about citing one real world example where that ever happened?
In the U.S., pickup factory GVW stickers have ZERO legal meaning. .

I do not think that a citing of Paranoids thesis is the point... I read it more as a comment on the litigious society in which we live. By using the words "worst case scenario" he is a;ready alluding to an opinion, and quite frankly, the points seems plausible... stranger rulings have happened in our justice system.

Perhaps a person would be cleared of wrong doing if there are "zero legals" that prove a driver to be not at fault, but a cracker-jack lawyer could make for a stressful period of time until cleared.

I once got sued for WITNESSING an accident.

[Bedlam]

It’s very possible to haul the 811 on a 3/4t. All of these trucks are riding on 10k LB rated rear axles but have softer springs and lower rated wheels which are holding you back.

If you plan to keep the camper on the truck, just replace the axle entire rear spring pack with a a heavier from a place like SDTruckSprings.com If you want keep somewhat of the same unloaded ride, you will need an upper overload string that engages quickly and and a way to preload the entire spring pack by using wedges on your lower overload spring.If you do not both front and rear stabilizer bars on the truck, you will need these to reduce roll regardless of which spring upgrade up choose.

If you do not plan to tow behind the camper there are plenty of tire and rim combinations at or over 3750 lbs that will give you sufficient capacity. If you tow or pack heavy, go to 4500 LB rated 19.5” rims tires that exceed that rim rating (most likely a PR16 LRH 245/70R19.5 tire). This size tire will. E about 33” tall and will require a little work to fit properly in the front of a GM truck, but multiple solutions are well documented here.

[burningman]

Optimistic Paranoid wrote:

S Davis wrote:
I drive over 20,000 miles a year, the truck drives great and nothing has exploded and I have not been arrested for being over the yellow sticker.

A comment from someone who may admittedly be overly cautious.

Just because you haven't been arrested for being over the sticker weight doesn't mean the vehicle's GVWR has no legal significance.

Worst case scenario: You're in an accident, and somebody else dies. Let's stipulate it wasn't your fault, and it couldn't have been avoided.

But the Highway Patrol goes into full investigative mode and decides you were WAY over the GVWR. Are you absolutely positive that:

1. The police won't decide you were recklessly negligent and charge you with Involuntary Manslaughter?

2. You won't have to a civil suit that you can't win that is going to cost you your house, your retirement, and your kid's college funds?

I'm not, which is why I don't treat the GVWR as a mere 'suggestion'.

Of course, everyone else here is free to do so if they want to.

Not this again. You literally made all of that up.
How about citing one real world example where that ever happened?
In the U.S., pickup factory GVW stickers have ZERO legal meaning.
Neither do commercial truck ratings. The DOT has its own rating system based on tire size, number of tires, and spacing of tires.

This fairy tale story that gets retold in camper forums (and nowhere else!) needs to be put to rest.
And you need to learn where the factory rating-sticker numbers come from. Hint: it ISN’T the engineering department.