RAM 2500 Oil.

[evanvalk]

Need Help or INF. I bought Used 2008 Ram 2500 turbo Diesel 6.7 Big Horn, Very low Mi. Runs And Looks great, But the first time I had to change the oil,12 Qts, w/new filter, On checking the level to make sure it was up, it was just as black as what I drained out, Is that normal or has anybody had the same thing happen,. Thanks for any thoughts, Ed

[Bluhorn]

As has been rightly explained, it has to do with the third injection event for emissions.Wont hurt anything. My 07 5.9 (built in 06) would get blacker than night just after a few miles. Normal. Now my 93 5.9 stays clean even with 300 K on the clock.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

evanvalk wrote:
Need Help or INF. I bought Used 2008 Ram 2500 turbo Diesel 6.7 Big Horn, Very low Mi. Runs And Looks great, But the first time I had to change the oil,12 Qts, w/new filter, On checking the level to make sure it was up, it was just as black as what I drained out, Is that normal or has anybody had the same thing happen,. Thanks for any thoughts, Ed

Ed, all diesels make soot during the combustion process. This soot gets past the rings and turn the oil black. Some diesels have EGR on them (yours does)and this puts even more soot into the oil.

Some people worry about the color of oil. This is unwarranted in a diesel because the soot that turns the oil black is sub 1 micron.

To give you an idea on how small that is, the period at the end of this sentence is around 600 microns. Cigarette smoke is right around 1 micron!

The clearance in the bearings of your engine is somewhere around 3 thousands of an inch. 25 microns will fit 1 one thousand of an inch.

HD engine oils for diesels are designed to absorb soot and they do a VERY good job at doing it.

My point in all of this is you can't tell how "dirty" an engine oil is just by it's color............or feel.............or looks or smell.

The ONLY way to tell how good of shape your oil is in "for sure" is send it to a lab like Blackstone or CAT and let them analyze it.

If you don't want to send a sample or two off for conformation; OLM's have proved time and time again that they are very close and even on the conservative side. The only people that don't believe in them are the uninformed or the people that have never set a sample in for ground truthing.

[just_me]

If in dought have it analyzed by Blackstone labs.

[Cummins12V98]

up2nogood wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Very normal. I usually let my engines drain overnight when doing oil changes. Even then the 6.7 leaves at least 1/3 quart in the pan. So when adding new oil add about 11 2/3 quarts end you will be on the full mark. Mine was always black as soon as I started the engine. Now the 15 is a completely different animal. They oil is still not black at 2,500 miles.

They must have made a drastic change between the 2014 and the 2015, mine got black long before that on both oil changes

It's because you are always "up2nogood" :B

[AH64ID]

JIMNLIN wrote:


The '03 has over 255k miles now and I still use the 7500/15000 mile oil change schedule from Cummins but losses that honey color at around 200 miles now.

I noticed when Cummins came out with the '04.5 325/600 engine with the 3rd injection event, some folks complained of their oil turning black quicker.

It still amazes me that Cummins put that long of a OCI on the 04.5-07 325hp motors with how much soot they put into the oil. Thou schedule A is a rare use and in that rpm profile (mostly empty highway driving) the 3rd event is very limited. Above 2200 rpms there isn't a 3rd event while cruising.. but that is also where the timing falls off and mileage suffers. The 3rd event starts to taper quickly at 2,000 rpms. But for it to be completely gone a NV5600 has to be cruising at 74 w/3.73s or 67 with 4.10's. A G56 has to be 68 for the AD or 73 for the AE. A 48RE has to be at 78 w/ 3.73 or 71 w/4.10... Pr

The 6.7 has up to 5 injection events but that pushed more fuel than soot into the oil. The 03-04's are generally TBN/contamination limited on oil life, 04.5-07 are soot limited, and the 07.5-12 6.7's are fuel limited. It will be interesting to see what the limiting factor is on DEF equipped 6.7's. I would guess TBN as CJ oil has a lower TBN than CI oil.

[cummins2014]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
Very normal. I usually let my engines drain overnight when doing oil changes. Even then the 6.7 leaves at least 1/3 quart in the pan. So when adding new oil add about 11 2/3 quarts end you will be on the full mark. Mine was always black as soon as I started the engine. Now the 15 is a completely different animal. They oil is still not black at 2,500 miles.

They must have made a drastic change between the 2014 and the 2015, mine got black long before that on both oil changes

[JIMNLIN]

ib516 wrote:
Yes, agree with above post. Also of note, my 2002 Cummins 5.9L would keep oil clean for a long time too. It's all related to emissions garbage.

My '03 Cummins was the first year of the new 305/555 HPCR engines. When new the oil would stay honey colored till around 3000-3500 miles depending on how hard it was worked unlike a '01 and a '96 Cummins I had in other trucks. Those old engines got black in a hurry.

The '03 has over 255k miles now and I still use the 7500/15000 mile oil change schedule from Cummins but losses that honey color at around 200 miles now.

I noticed when Cummins came out with the '04.5 325/600 engine with the 3rd injection event, some folks complained of their oil turning black quicker.

[4X4Dodger]

evanvalk wrote:
Need Help or INF. I bought Used 2008 Ram 2500 turbo Diesel 6.7 Big Horn, Very low Mi. Runs And Looks great, But the first time I had to change the oil,12 Qts, w/new filter, On checking the level to make sure it was up, it was just as black as what I drained out, Is that normal or has anybody had the same thing happen,. Thanks for any thoughts, Ed

Diesels have always cycled a certain amount of exhaust soot through the oil. This amount has been increased with the newer diesels. This is one reason for the large quantity of oil in the crankcase. That soot will sit on the bottom of the oil pan and when you add new oil will turn black very quickly.

this is one way they have eliminated the black smoke from the tailpipe.

[AH64ID]

There is at least a qt, if not a little more, of oil left in the block. The oil pan design, head cavities, and oil cooler are the main holders of old oil.

Combine that with modern oil and what it does for soot (doesn't let it agglomerate so it is harder to filter out) and oil turns black right now. The 6.7 isn't as bad as the 04.5-07 5.9 but still worse than anything 04 and older. A 2004 Cummins was the last Cummins that stayed clean for any amount of time.

My 05 doesn't have any of the OEM garbage that was the main reason it went BLACK FAST (Cam, Turbo, Pistons, Injector Nozzle angle, and tuning) and it is still BLACK. The difference is the stock setup left a sooty residue on your fingers that was all but impossible to wash off and the oil of the new stuff does not.

[ib516]

trailerbikecamper wrote:

ib516 wrote:
Normal, and brand of oil makes zero difference. They all get ink black 10 seconds after you start the engine after a change.

I disagree. My oil has close to 5000km and it's almost as clean as it was when first put in. Even with my current turbo issue.

Well in my 2007 and always DIY oil changes (with various oil brands) it was normal.

The 2002 24V stayed clean looking much longer than the 07 HPCR did. The 07 was ink black as soon as it was started.

[DirtyOil]

45Ricochet wrote:

DirtyOil wrote:

Well I don't know fellas. I own a 2001 Ford F250 Power Stroke 7.3 I change the oil every 2500 miles. Once changed I can read through it for over 1000 miles. After reading all these posts about black oil I had to go out and check mine just had it changed 600 miles ago still looks like it just came out of the bottle. Clear and clean. OK little smokey but still very clean. So how long are you guys going before you change your oil? Oh one more thing--- It never even leaves the garage less it has some sort of trailer attached to it so it's a work horse for sure

Two entirely different beasts, 7.3 Power Stroke and the CTD, Cummins uses multi injection events, pre, main and third. Third injection is just after main combustion injection, small amount of fuel is injected to aid in reducing exhaust emissions, the result is some of the soot from the last injection event ends up in the oil making it black. Will have no lasting effect on the engine as long as oil changes are done at correct intervals, as you would do for any engine, to make em last.

Good info but there is a tuner to eliminate that 3rd injection :W Err I didn't say that Jerry Brown.......

Yes... but I went the mechanical way on my 2005... went with a new reground Colt cam shaft, bigger turbo and injectors... so on and so on....(oil did stay "cleaner" looking a wee bit longer then when with stock cam...)

:B

[trailerbikecamp]

ib516 wrote:
Normal, and brand of oil makes zero difference. They all get ink black 10 seconds after you start the engine after a change.

I disagree. My oil has close to 5000km and it's almost as clean as it was when first put in. Even with my current turbo issue.

[45Ricochet]

DirtyOil wrote:

Well I don't know fellas. I own a 2001 Ford F250 Power Stroke 7.3 I change the oil every 2500 miles. Once changed I can read through it for over 1000 miles. After reading all these posts about black oil I had to go out and check mine just had it changed 600 miles ago still looks like it just came out of the bottle. Clear and clean. OK little smokey but still very clean. So how long are you guys going before you change your oil? Oh one more thing--- It never even leaves the garage less it has some sort of trailer attached to it so it's a work horse for sure

Two entirely different beasts, 7.3 Power Stroke and the CTD, Cummins uses multi injection events, pre, main and third. Third injection is just after main combustion injection, small amount of fuel is injected to aid in reducing exhaust emissions, the result is some of the soot from the last injection event ends up in the oil making it black. Will have no lasting effect on the engine as long as oil changes are done at correct intervals, as you would do for any engine, to make em last.

Good info but there is a tuner to eliminate that 3rd injection :W Err I didn't say that Jerry Brown.......

[Grit_dog]

3 words. E G R.
2500 mi oil changes? LoL