Ram 6.4L Hemi vs good ol' 8.1L

[BurbMan]

Had the flu this week so spent a lot of time sitting around watching TV and Googling stuff....I got to thinking that my next truck will probably be a well-equipped Ram 2500, crew cab, 6'4" bed, with the 6.4L Hemi.

The real question is the drivetrain....I thought briefly about the manual transmission, but the traffic around here has gotten so bad I'm afraid I don't have the patience to shift anymore. After losing 2 automatics while towing, it seems to make sense though....

I don't tow far enough or heavy enough to need a diesel, TT loaded is not quite 9k lbs. I'm thinking the 6.4 with the 4.10 rear would make a nice combo.

So obviously the Big Question is, how will it tow compared to the 8.1/4.10 combo I have now? How is the 68RFE transmission, is it durable?

I'm also not seeing ram boxes or an IBC option, are these not available on the power wagon?

The other big question is how recent model years stack up....ideally I'd like to get 14-16 truck that somebody else had paid the depreciation on.

Would appreciate any pointers from guys who know the Ram truck line...

[Lantley]

BurbMan wrote:
Not really. It was great with 2 kids, 2 dogs, and more often than not kids' friends, but nowadays it's mostly just the 2 of us. Plus we're not bringing bikes and/or beach toys either. Once in a while we have another couple with us. The last time I had the 3rd row seat in the truck was Thanksgiving 2013.

I just had the rockers replaced on the burb in 2016, so not ready to give up on her yet, but at the same time, it won't last forever....you got me thinking it would be great if I could get that 6L90 behind the 8.1....

Can I say it's hard for me to imagine you in another truck!
With a screen name like Burbman how can you drive anything else!
By the way I saw that Ramguy post. If Dodge Guy can drive and Excursion. Burbman can drive a Ram.
Did I mention, While I love the Duramax Allison combo of my current truck I still miss the passenger space of my Excursion.
8.1 Burbs are great vehicles unfortunately they don't last forever.
Whenever the new vehicle comes into play I think you'll be impressed by lots of new technology 6 speed transmissions, LED lighting etc.
Technology moves fast.
As much as I loved my 7.3 PSD X it was a dinosaur in many ways compared to the modern trucks. I think you will find the same experience once you move on from your Burb.

[BurbMan]

Not really. It was great with 2 kids, 2 dogs, and more often than not kids' friends, but nowadays it's mostly just the 2 of us. Plus we're not bringing bikes and/or beach toys either. Once in a while we have another couple with us. The last time I had the 3rd row seat in the truck was Thanksgiving 2013.

I just had the rockers replaced on the burb in 2016, so not ready to give up on her yet, but at the same time, it won't last forever....you got me thinking it would be great if I could get that 6L90 behind the 8.1....

[intheburbs]

You don't want/need the extra passenger capacity of a Burb any more?

Have you even considered the GMT900 2500 SUVs? How heavy is your trailer? I've pulled my current trailer all over the US, including passes in the Rockies, and I've rarely found myself disappointed with the power. The 6L90 transmission works well with the engine.

[BurbMan]

Good point, I may give Ford another look, there is a big dealer close to where we live now.

[alexleblanc]

BurbMan wrote:
I hear ya...I have always been a GM fan, but the 6.0 is not gonna cut it. I did do some research on the Ford, and the 6.2 has nearly same power specs at the Ram 6.4. Frankly though, I am put off by their whole diesel engine drama of the last 10 years, starting with the 6.0. Not that they had problems with the engineering, that happens, but I've read soooo many stories about how warranty work was denied leaving customers who spent big money on a new truck holding the bag for repairs.

My impression of Ford has nothing to do with their trucks, but that they don't treat their customers very well, and I'm not inclined to do business with a company like that. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I view Ford right now.

it's all in the dealership in my experience, and one of the main reason's I buy Fords locally. if your GM or Ram dealer is really good to deal with and they have a product that will serve your needs, that's always the best choice IMO.

[MFL]

BurbMan wrote:
I hear ya...I have always been a GM fan, but the 6.0 is not gonna cut it. I did do some research on the Ford, and the 6.2 has nearly same power specs at the Ram 6.4. Frankly though, I am put off by their whole diesel engine drama of the last 10 years, starting with the 6.0. Not that they had problems with the engineering, that happens, but I've read soooo many stories about how warranty work was denied leaving customers who spent big money on a new truck holding the bag for repairs.

My impression of Ford has nothing to do with their trucks, but that they don't treat their customers very well, and I'm not inclined to do business with a company like that. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I view Ford right now.

One thing I've learned over the years, concerning warranty issues, whether trucks, or motor sports vehicles, the dealers approach and standing with the manufacturer, can make a difference. I have received assistance from Ford, and even Yamaha Motor Sports, after my warranty period had ended. I have also seen the nice guy be denied, when deserving warranty, and the a-hle get warranty, when they shouldn't.

Jerry

[BurbMan]

I hear ya...I have always been a GM fan, but the 6.0 is not gonna cut it. I did do some research on the Ford, and the 6.2 has nearly same power specs at the Ram 6.4. Frankly though, I am put off by their whole diesel engine drama of the last 10 years, starting with the 6.0. Not that they had problems with the engineering, that happens, but I've read soooo many stories about how warranty work was denied leaving customers who spent big money on a new truck holding the bag for repairs.

My impression of Ford has nothing to do with their trucks, but that they don't treat their customers very well, and I'm not inclined to do business with a company like that. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I view Ford right now.

[alexleblanc]

other than the 1-2 gearing gap, everything I've read on the 6.4 ram with the 4:10 and even 3:73's seems to be very good as a towing platform if you choose to go gas.

Do yourself a favor and at least try the F250-350srw with the 6.2, with both 4:30's and 3:73's they are quite the beast with a very well geared and proven transmission behind it.

Regardless of what you do both the Ram and the Ford has very potent gas V8 options. The Gm option is a good truck however I think they have a little work to do on their gas offering to get back to being competitive.

[mich800]

I think realistically the short answer is they just have not tested it enough and tuned it. The bigger trucks do not fall under CAFE yet so they have been picking different battles.

[wilber1]

1stgenfarmboy wrote:

mkirsch wrote:

wilber1 wrote:
I really don't understand why Ram offers the 8 spd with the 5.7 1500 and not with the 6.4 2500. They come in models that can easily handle the 6.4's torque. In fact it is the automatic option on the Hellcat which produces 650 lbft.

Two words: Duty cycle.

Most Hellcats are only putting out that power for a brief moment as they accelerate. The rest of the time it's just noise.

Same goes for your typical 1500 pickup. You're not towing/hauling heavy all day every day for hundreds of thousands of miles. I'm sure if you were, the 8 speed would not hold up. At least, they're not confident enough that it will. Yet. Maybe never.






Duty cycle in a transmission is heat, add a little extra cooling and there is no reason it won't be fine.

there is a guy that has posted in this thread with a half ton that tows every day pretty heavy IMO for 390k so far with an 8spd, so I thing that statment of yours was off a little.



torque is torque, just some applacations use it longer, so more heat.
same exact load on the trans.

The last thing RAM needs is a bunch of keyboard commandos ripping them apart in online forums due to a rash of 8-speed failures in 2500 pickups.

So what exactly does a manufacturer mean when they rate a transmission for torque? The ZF is used in many vehicles and it doesn't specify what kind its rating applies to.

A locked clutch or torque converter doesn't generate heat. Anyone who tows with a transmission temperature gauge knows that. The ZF torque converter locks in every gear and in 1st it only unlocks when the vehicle is stopped and just starting to move. It is used exclusively for vehicle launch.

[1stgenfarmboy]

mkirsch wrote:

wilber1 wrote:
I really don't understand why Ram offers the 8 spd with the 5.7 1500 and not with the 6.4 2500. They come in models that can easily handle the 6.4's torque. In fact it is the automatic option on the Hellcat which produces 650 lbft.

Two words: Duty cycle.

Most Hellcats are only putting out that power for a brief moment as they accelerate. The rest of the time it's just noise.

Same goes for your typical 1500 pickup. You're not towing/hauling heavy all day every day for hundreds of thousands of miles. I'm sure if you were, the 8 speed would not hold up. At least, they're not confident enough that it will. Yet. Maybe never.






Duty cycle in a transmission is heat, add a little extra cooling and there is no reason it won't be fine.

there is a guy that has posted in this thread with a half ton that tows every day pretty heavy IMO for 390k so far with an 8spd, so I thing that statment of yours was off a little.



torque is torque, just some applacations use it longer, so more heat.
same exact load on the trans.

The last thing RAM needs is a bunch of keyboard commandos ripping them apart in online forums due to a rash of 8-speed failures in 2500 pickups.

[BurbMan]

mkirsch wrote:
The last thing RAM needs is a bunch of keyboard commandos ripping them apart in online forums due to a rash of 8-speed failures in 2500 pickups.

Like the buzz that was flooding the forums 15 years ago about "piston slap" on the 8.1's...yes they are noisy when they start up, yes they use 1 qt of oil every 3k miles, but that's how they were designed...

[mkirsch]

wilber1 wrote:
I really don't understand why Ram offers the 8 spd with the 5.7 1500 and not with the 6.4 2500. They come in models that can easily handle the 6.4's torque. In fact it is the automatic option on the Hellcat which produces 650 lbft.

Two words: Duty cycle.

Most Hellcats are only putting out that power for a brief moment as they accelerate. The rest of the time it's just noise.

Same goes for your typical 1500 pickup. You're not towing/hauling heavy all day every day for hundreds of thousands of miles. I'm sure if you were, the 8 speed would not hold up. At least, they're not confident enough that it will. Yet. Maybe never.

The last thing RAM needs is a bunch of keyboard commandos ripping them apart in online forums due to a rash of 8-speed failures in 2500 pickups.

[ib516]

Frostbitte wrote:

wilber1 wrote:
I really don't understand why Ram offers the 8 spd with the 5.7 1500 and not with the 6.4 2500. They come in models that can easily handle the 6.4's torque. In fact it is the automatic option on the Hellcat which produces 650 lbft.

Rumour has it that the 8-speed for the 6.4 2500 is in the works. Don't have any specifics or dates though...

I realize it's a different application, but if they can makes the 8 speed able to hold 800hp in the demon, and tow 12k in the 1500, it shouldn't be too much trouble to make it survive towing duty in a 2500.