Ram Eco-Diesel vs F150 2.7 TT - Davis Dam

[Hybridhunter]

You just know it's not gonna be close!

So which is better? Horsepower or torque lol.
(The answer is both, apparently.)

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

JPhelps wrote:

Hey T&P. Remember that one person telling us that HP is just a calculation and doesn't really exist like TQ does? Lol

LOL, that guy was right. Look up the definition.
You will notice that 'torque' is the measure of 'work'. Work requires a force. That force is torque. All horsepower adds to the equation is time, so horsepower is just the ticking of the clock.

This guy quoted below works with horsepower all the time for his livelihood and this is what he has to say about it.

What This Means
As we proved above, horsepower is simply an extrapolation of torque applied over time. When an engine is measured for its power potential on a dynamometer, horsepower and torque are not measured as separate entities. Rather, torque is measured, and horsepower is then calculated given the torque at the specific RPM level.
Car owners often use “horsepower” as the end-all be-all rating for engine performance. This perspective is flawed. First of all, when you hear of a car having X horsepower, it only refers to the peak horsepower on the dyno graph. Secondly, it doesn’t indicate what the shape of the torque curve is. You can feel the torque that an engine generates as you’re pushed back into your seat.

http://www.roushperformance.com/blog/2010/12/the-meaning-of-horsepower-and-torque/

Bye,,,,, again.

Work is never measured in torque. Tractors, big rigs, motorcycles, cars, pickups, it does not matter, they are all measured in HP.

If I say I can put out 1000 ft/lbs of torque how much work is being done? If I sit on the end of a pipe wrench that is 5' long I'm putting out a little more than 1000 ft/lbs of torque. 🙂

If you say "torque is a measurement of work" how much work am I doing?

If I build an engine that puts out 1000 ft/lbs of torque and limit the RPM to 1000 how much HP does it produce and how well will this engine work for pulling any RV up mountains? Remember, this engine puts out waaaaaaaaaaaay more torque than even the hottest pickup engines now days.

[transamz9]

mich800 wrote:
Here is another way to look at it. You can rough calculate HP by taking quarter mile trap speed with a known vehicle weight. The torque curve can be any of an infinite # of scenarios but the HP is the same. A vehicle with a higher or flatter torque curve may "feel" faster but at the end of the day it is the HP component that did the work.

Horsepower does no work, it is a calculation that tells you how muck work can be done in a time frame.

[transamz9]

RCMAN46 wrote:

JPhelps wrote:

Hey T&P. Remember that one person telling us that HP is just a calculation and doesn't really exist like TQ does? Lol

LOL, that guy was right. Look up the definition.
You will notice that 'torque' is the measure of 'work'. Work requires a force. That force is torque. All horsepower adds to the equation is time, so horsepower is just the ticking of the clock.

This guy quoted below works with horsepower all the time for his livelihood and this is what he has to say about it.

What This Means
As we proved above, horsepower is simply an extrapolation of torque applied over time. When an engine is measured for its power potential on a dynamometer, horsepower and torque are not measured as separate entities. Rather, torque is measured, and horsepower is then calculated given the torque at the specific RPM level.
Car owners often use “horsepower” as the end-all be-all rating for engine performance. This perspective is flawed. First of all, when you hear of a car having X horsepower, it only refers to the peak horsepower on the dyno graph. Secondly, it doesn’t indicate what the shape of the torque curve is. You can feel the torque that an engine generates as you’re pushed back into your seat.

http://www.roushperformance.com/blog/2010/12/the-meaning-of-horsepower-and-torque/

Bye,,,,, again.

But if you are talking about a chassis dynamometer (that is what you will find in the field)
They measure horsepower and the torque has to be calculated.

Also torque is not a measurement of work. Torque is only a force measurement. You can have a 1000 ft lbs of torque with no work being done.

But if you have 300 hp work is being done.

When you are being pushed back in you seat that is horsepower.

Being pushed back in your seat is torque overpowering the resistance. Horsepower is just a mathematical calculation that tells you how much torque you are putting out to overcome that resistance.

[DSteiner51]

A 32" diameter tire spins approx 630 rpm at 60mph. If it takes 300hp to climb a hill at 60 mph it doesn't matter whether it is a turbine engine spinning at 34,000rpm @ 47ft lbs of torque or a gas engine at 5000rpm and 320ft lbs or a diesel running at 2500rpm and 640ft lbs or some ridiculous engine at 16rpm and 100,000ft lbs by the time the proper gearing is done all will be putting down the same torque and rpm to the rear axle.

The difference is the engine with the proper gearing spinning at 34000rpm will be much lighter then the engine and gearing for the 16rpm engine so will most likely be able to haul more payload then the 16rpm engine. Same goes for gas or diesel engines.

[mich800]

Here is another way to look at it. You can rough calculate HP by taking quarter mile trap speed with a known vehicle weight. The torque curve can be any of an infinite # of scenarios but the HP is the same. A vehicle with a higher or flatter torque curve may "feel" faster but at the end of the day it is the HP component that did the work.

[wilber1]

JPhelps wrote:
LOL, that guy was right. Look up the definition.
You will notice that 'torque' is the measure of 'work'. Work requires a force. That force is torque. All horsepower adds to the equation is time, so horsepower is just the ticking of the clock.

This guy quoted below works with horsepower all the time for his livelihood and this is what he has to say about it.

No, there is another element. Distance. You can apply all the force you want for as long as you want but if it doesn't move, no work is done.

Horsepower is measured in foot pounds per second. The word foot isn't there for decoration.

[RCMAN46]

JPhelps wrote:

Hey T&P. Remember that one person telling us that HP is just a calculation and doesn't really exist like TQ does? Lol

LOL, that guy was right. Look up the definition.
You will notice that 'torque' is the measure of 'work'. Work requires a force. That force is torque. All horsepower adds to the equation is time, so horsepower is just the ticking of the clock.

This guy quoted below works with horsepower all the time for his livelihood and this is what he has to say about it.

What This Means
As we proved above, horsepower is simply an extrapolation of torque applied over time. When an engine is measured for its power potential on a dynamometer, horsepower and torque are not measured as separate entities. Rather, torque is measured, and horsepower is then calculated given the torque at the specific RPM level.
Car owners often use “horsepower” as the end-all be-all rating for engine performance. This perspective is flawed. First of all, when you hear of a car having X horsepower, it only refers to the peak horsepower on the dyno graph. Secondly, it doesn’t indicate what the shape of the torque curve is. You can feel the torque that an engine generates as you’re pushed back into your seat.

http://www.roushperformance.com/blog/2010/12/the-meaning-of-horsepower-and-torque/

Bye,,,,, again.

But if you are talking about a chassis dynamometer (that is what you will find in the field)
They measure horsepower and the torque has to be calculated.

Also torque is not a measurement of work. Torque is only a force measurement. You can have a 1000 ft lbs of torque with no work being done.

But if you have 300 hp work is being done.

When you are being pushed back in you seat that is horsepower.

[JPhelps]

Hey T&P. Remember that one person telling us that HP is just a calculation and doesn't really exist like TQ does? Lol

LOL, that guy was right. Look up the definition.
You will notice that 'torque' is the measure of 'work'. Work requires a force. That force is torque. All horsepower adds to the equation is time, so horsepower is just the ticking of the clock.

This guy quoted below works with horsepower all the time for his livelihood and this is what he has to say about it.

What This Means
As we proved above, horsepower is simply an extrapolation of torque applied over time. When an engine is measured for its power potential on a dynamometer, horsepower and torque are not measured as separate entities. Rather, torque is measured, and horsepower is then calculated given the torque at the specific RPM level.
Car owners often use “horsepower” as the end-all be-all rating for engine performance. This perspective is flawed. First of all, when you hear of a car having X horsepower, it only refers to the peak horsepower on the dyno graph. Secondly, it doesn’t indicate what the shape of the torque curve is. You can feel the torque that an engine generates as you’re pushed back into your seat.

http://www.roushperformance.com/blog/2010/12/the-meaning-of-horsepower-and-torque/

Bye,,,,, again.

[wilber1]

FishOnOne wrote:

Fordlover wrote:

NinerBikes wrote:


Here's your sign.... anytime you want to see work get done, with heavy loads... ships, freighliners, trains, whatever, where there is heavy weight involved, invariably, the drive plant chosen is a turbo diesel. End of subject matter. It's never a race, when work needs to be done, it's what kind of power your motor makes under the peak curve that matters, and how far away you can stay from being at the peak curve while doing the required work, leaving a margin of safety for the longevity of the motor.

Actually, in many of your examples, the drive plant chosen is actually electric. Trains for example, electric motors, that might be powered by diesel gen sets. Cruise ships are powered in the same manor.

It's also worth mentioning that nearly everywhere, engines are rated by hp. Certainly in the oil field engine skids are never measured by the torque output, always hp. Same goes for those motors on the cruise ships.

Too funny... I've read sooo many responses with errors from Niner

Actually, he makes a good point. You don't want to be operating at peak power all the time. How often do we call for rated power from our engines? Low and mid range power is very important in normal operation. I would rather have 20 more hp at 2000 RPM than 30 more at 5000. That is a diesel's forte. Turbo gassers do pretty well in that respect as well but not as efficiently.

[FishOnOne]

Fordlover wrote:

NinerBikes wrote:


Here's your sign.... anytime you want to see work get done, with heavy loads... ships, freighliners, trains, whatever, where there is heavy weight involved, invariably, the drive plant chosen is a turbo diesel. End of subject matter. It's never a race, when work needs to be done, it's what kind of power your motor makes under the peak curve that matters, and how far away you can stay from being at the peak curve while doing the required work, leaving a margin of safety for the longevity of the motor.

Actually, in many of your examples, the drive plant chosen is actually electric. Trains for example, electric motors, that might be powered by diesel gen sets. Cruise ships are powered in the same manor.

It's also worth mentioning that nearly everywhere, engines are rated by hp. Certainly in the oil field engine skids are never measured by the torque output, always hp. Same goes for those motors on the cruise ships.

Too funny... I've read sooo many responses with errors from Niner

[Fordlover]

NinerBikes wrote:


Here's your sign.... anytime you want to see work get done, with heavy loads... ships, freighliners, trains, whatever, where there is heavy weight involved, invariably, the drive plant chosen is a turbo diesel. End of subject matter. It's never a race, when work needs to be done, it's what kind of power your motor makes under the peak curve that matters, and how far away you can stay from being at the peak curve while doing the required work, leaving a margin of safety for the longevity of the motor.

Actually, in many of your examples, the drive plant chosen is actually electric. Trains for example, electric motors, that might be powered by diesel gen sets. Cruise ships are powered in the same manor.

It's also worth mentioning that nearly everywhere, engines are rated by hp. Certainly in the oil field engine skids are never measured by the torque output, always hp. Same goes for those motors on the cruise ships.

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

Well said Spoon!

Don

[spoon059]

Wow...

The Ecodiesel looks like a great truck for the people that tow light and want better gas mileage both towing and non towing.

The Ecoboost has a couple years history of being a great truck for people that tow heavier weights than the Ecodiesel, but without significantly better towing mileage. Non towing mileage is potentially better than traditional engines.

Both sound like great trucks for people with different needs. It is absurd that people are diehard brand loyal that they feel they have to put down the other manufacturer to feel better about themselves and "their trucks". If you don't like the Ecodiesel, don't buy one. If you don't like the Ecoboost, don't buy one.

Why do some people feel the need to denigrate the competition? For those that hate the Ecoboost, do you realize that without the competition from the Ecoboost, the Ecodiesel may never have been made? For those that hate the Ecodiesel, just wait to see what other manufacturers have to do to compete with it. Competition is a GOOD THING for truck buyers. It forces the other guys to make a better product for a better price.

[womps]

This is something I never thought I would say 5 years ago.
" I sure like the clean looking exhaust of my Ecodiesel".
" I sure hate the dirty looking exhaust of my Ecoboost".

[wilber1]

Here's the car for hybridhunter.

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