Ram questions

[Flashman]

Well with almost 200,000 miles on my 2006 2500. I started thinking about a new truck. My current Dodge has the 6 speed manual and I thought I was done with manuals but I noticed that Ram still offers the manual. Does anyone know the horsepower torque and towing of the 2017 Rams equipped with a manual.

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

It may be that's the way it is up north but it's not in the US.

In fact, the last figures I have seen said that somewhere around only 1 in 10 in the US can even drive a standard tranny anymore.

As people get older and die off, less and less people can even drive a standard tranny. Then you have the older people that have knee or hip problems that know how to drive them but don't want them.

Hard times for standard tranny's.

The bottom line is this. A modern automatic tranny has the same or more gears, puts out more power, puts out more torque, gets the same or better mileage than it's standard counterpart. The standard tranny has 0 advantage over a modern automatic tranny.

My prediction is by 2020 to 2023 the standard tranny in LD pickup trucks will go the way of carburetors on engines.

[blofgren]

The Cummins/G56 combo is derated in HP/torque and tow ratings because the limiting factor is the clutch, especially for an inexperienced driver. There are plenty of good aftermarket solutions to that which I will take advantage of when the time comes. I may consider a mild tune at that time too, but the truck tows just fine in stock form. And I'm not towing a 8-9k lbs TT; it is a high profile 16k triple slide 4 season fiver.

The Cummins has such great low end torque that it makes it a great choice for the manual transmission and really makes one appreciate the capability of the engine.

Oh, and one last thing before I opt out of the discussion; in my area you had better be prepared to jump on a cherry Cummins/manual tranny truck quickly and pay premium price for it because they sell within a day or two. And that goes for all years of them. The 7.3L/ZF6 Fords are the same.

OP, if you decide to sell your truck you will have no problem at all and you will get top dollar for it. Just be sure that you want to sell it before listing because you will have people breaking the door down for it! :B

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

ShinerBock wrote:
Due to gear multiplication, the 650 lb-ft Cummins with the G56 is actually putting down considerably more torque than a SRW 900 lb-ft Cummins with the Aisin in first and second gear. In third, the G56 is still putting down more torque, but not much more. The Aisin is only putting down slightly more torque in fourth through sixth.

G56
1st: 13204.62
2nd: 7291.44
3rd: 4401.54
4th: 2912.13
5th: 2223.00
6th: 1645.02

68RFE
1st: 8837.28
2nd: 5034.24
3rd: 3857.76
4th: 2736
5th: 2243.52
6th: 1723.68

AS69RC
1st: 11542.5
2nd: 6156
3rd: 4124.52
4th: 3078
5th: 2370.06
6th: 1939.14

Your forgetting about the torque multiplication factor of the torque converter. This will be around 2.0 to 2.5 depending. The auto will kill a row boat tranny off of the line because of the torque multiplication factor.

[Dave_H_M]

I am way past the point of even considering jamming gears. Had enough of that in the 18 wheeler.

One thing I do know is that you are wasting your time trying to discuss how efficient the modern day autos are with someone who is a die hard gear kicker.

I have a friend that even found a Honda accord that has a manual trans. he says he just likes to be in charge while driving. So be it.:W

[KBOnTheRoad]

blofgren wrote:

KBOnTheRoad wrote:
I have a 2016 Dodge Ram Cummins with the 6 speed auto and I can say without reservation that it's the best transmission I have ever driven. No tonly that but it works in tandem with the tow haul mode and the engine brake to make descending long steep grades a breeze.

The 6 speed will downshift automatically when needed and work with the engine brake. You can set the engine brake on FULL or Auto. Auto will let you set the speed you want to descend a hill at and it will keep you there.

And the fuel milage will be much better with the auto trans than the manual.

By all means get the auto.

By the way I have tested mine from the Baja to Alaska and back this year so it's seen a bit of everything.

Glad to hear you're happy with the automatic. How do you figure the auto is much better on fuel than the manual? Manuals are typically MUCH better at getting power to the road which makes them better on fuel.

That idea was true many years ago before computerized fuel injection which increased fuel mileage over carburetors significantly. The automatic transmissions of at least the last ten years that are electronically controlled act in the same way. It shifts at the most optimum point for load, speed etc and fuel economy. When you are not over or under shifting (revving or lugging) which is common habits with a standard you are getting better fuel mileage.

Secondly every head to head test of standard vs auto transmissions has resulted in the auto being the winner fuel mileage wise...and efficiency too which really are the same thing.

When automatics were three speeds with no electronics and really quite crude in comparison to todays transmissions you would be right but they have advanced way beyond the ability of a manual now.

Also having a manual derates your horsepower and torque and I beleive your load ratings...at least for the Dodge and that is very telling.

[blofgren]

Me Again wrote:

blofgren wrote:

KBOnTheRoad wrote:
I have a 2016 Dodge Ram Cummins with the 6 speed auto and I can say without reservation that it's the best transmission I have ever driven. No tonly that but it works in tandem with the tow haul mode and the engine brake to make descending long steep grades a breeze.

The 6 speed will downshift automatically when needed and work with the engine brake. You can set the engine brake on FULL or Auto. Auto will let you set the speed you want to descend a hill at and it will keep you there.

And the fuel milage will be much better with the auto trans than the manual.

By all means get the auto.

By the way I have tested mine from the Baja to Alaska and back this year so it's seen a bit of everything.

Glad to hear you're happy with the automatic. How do you figure the auto is much better on fuel than the manual? Manuals are typically MUCH better at getting power to the road which makes them better on fuel.

G56 has a .74 overdrive in sixth, and 1.0 in 5th. The Aisin has .63 overdrive in 6th a .77 in 5th. 68RFE is .63 in 6th and .82 in 5th. With the advent of locking TC the advantage of manual trannies was negated. When not locked a TC has a torque multiplying capability.

Love my Aisin with low 1st and 2nd gear and 3.42 tall rear gears.

Chris

Thanks but I highly doubt the minor difference in transmission ratios will make much if any difference in fuel economy. The differential ratio will likely make more of a difference. I can tow my 16k fiver in 6th gear with no problem at all even on rolling hills.

Personal preference I guess but I still like the manual. No unexpected up or downshifts and works exceptionally well with the exhaust brake. Simple to service. The dealer I bought from had several manuals in stock and said they sell lots of them so I'm not alone. I think many if not most people don't know how to drive them properly, especially with a heavy load which creates so much animosity about them and the subsequent preference for an auto. I actually find driving an auto truck quite boring after a while! JMHO! :B

[Slowmover]

Back to the OP topic. Last I knew the power rating on the 4500/5500 trucks was the same as the 3500/manual. More than enough. Think of it as the "real" power numbers.

For those who haven't run a manual behind the Cummins, it's not at all like what the V8 diesels were like. Which was poor.

While I agree that the latest auto six speeds change the equation for most, fit those who want more overall vehicle control, the man trans hasn't a peer. I especially prefer it when backing and in slow traffic.

I'd recommend a test drive. It's hard to look bad with the auto-throttle. Gives the relations of driver and engine a different feel. Closer. Might be desirable.

Granted I run a 13-speed Cummins at work. Getting into the pickup is like getting into a Corvette. Revs higher and the New Venture has always been smooth.

Clutch on mine is original after 13-years and 215,000-miles. I also read good comments about Valair clutches.

[4x4ord]

I was so glad i got a standard way back in 1993 when I bout a 1 ton GMC diesel but there is no way I would pick a manual over an automatic in a new pick up.The automatics now have incredible torque converters that hook up so nice and they give you the opportunity to shift manually if you want anyway. I get to drive my daughter"s little TSX every once in a while and I enjoy the manual until I try to drink coffee, shift gears and text all at the same time.

[Grit_dog]

transamz9 wrote:
I had a SB DD in my 2010 that was in it when I bought it. IDK what the material was that it was made of but I hated it. I think it was designed to pull a sled. Spool it up and let out. There wasn't any easing out and it squalled every time you took off. Sound like I was barking tires every time I took off. It also sounded like someone had thrown a hand full off gravel in the transmission when it was sitting and idling with the clutch out. It sucked in a parking lot.

That's my single disk to a tee. It's rough and loud and rude, but it's there and when it's engaged, it would take more than my mildly bombed truck can put out to slip it.
It also "squeals" upon normal 2nd gear takeoffs. Unless my FIL drives it for a day or 2 then it's no squeal for a while. Makes me think he's not being easy on it.......lol
Or it might be that time he told me wide eyed that he broke the tires loose in 5 th gear!
Asked him why he was roddin his daughters truck? He just got s big grin and said "turbo."

[Me_Again]

blofgren wrote:

KBOnTheRoad wrote:
I have a 2016 Dodge Ram Cummins with the 6 speed auto and I can say without reservation that it's the best transmission I have ever driven. No tonly that but it works in tandem with the tow haul mode and the engine brake to make descending long steep grades a breeze.

The 6 speed will downshift automatically when needed and work with the engine brake. You can set the engine brake on FULL or Auto. Auto will let you set the speed you want to descend a hill at and it will keep you there.

And the fuel milage will be much better with the auto trans than the manual.

By all means get the auto.

By the way I have tested mine from the Baja to Alaska and back this year so it's seen a bit of everything.

Glad to hear you're happy with the automatic. How do you figure the auto is much better on fuel than the manual? Manuals are typically MUCH better at getting power to the road which makes them better on fuel.

G56 has a .74 overdrive in sixth, and 1.0 in 5th. The Aisin has .63 overdrive in 6th a .77 in 5th. 68RFE is .63 in 6th and .82 in 5th. With the advent of locking TC the advantage of manual trannies was negated. When not locked a TC has a torque multiplying capability.

Love my Aisin with low 1st and 2nd gear and 3.42 tall rear gears.

Chris

[blofgren]

KBOnTheRoad wrote:
I have a 2016 Dodge Ram Cummins with the 6 speed auto and I can say without reservation that it's the best transmission I have ever driven. No tonly that but it works in tandem with the tow haul mode and the engine brake to make descending long steep grades a breeze.

The 6 speed will downshift automatically when needed and work with the engine brake. You can set the engine brake on FULL or Auto. Auto will let you set the speed you want to descend a hill at and it will keep you there.

And the fuel milage will be much better with the auto trans than the manual.

By all means get the auto.

By the way I have tested mine from the Baja to Alaska and back this year so it's seen a bit of everything.

Glad to hear you're happy with the automatic. How do you figure the auto is much better on fuel than the manual? Manuals are typically MUCH better at getting power to the road which makes them better on fuel.

[transferred]

Flashman wrote:
Well with almost 200,000 miles on my 2006 2500. I started thinking about a new truck. My current Dodge has the 6 speed manual and I thought I was done with manuals but I noticed that Ram still offers the manual. Does anyone know the horsepower torque and towing of the 2017 Rams equipped with a manual.

200k is still young for a 5.9, plus 325 hp & 610 lb/ft@1600 rpm is still very competitive with today's rigs.

Unless you're stepping up to a bigger truck like a 3500, or needing a 4x4 and yours is 2wd, then I'd get some new tires and shocks and drive your 06 for another 200k.

Now, if you just want a new truck then the new 3500 SRWs are very plush, like Cadillac's inside but capable of moving some big weight.

[KBOnTheRoad]

I have a 2016 Dodge Ram Cummins with the 6 speed auto and I can say without reservation that it's the best transmission I have ever driven. No tonly that but it works in tandem with the tow haul mode and the engine brake to make descending long steep grades a breeze.

The 6 speed will downshift automatically when needed and work with the engine brake. You can set the engine brake on FULL or Auto. Auto will let you set the speed you want to descend a hill at and it will keep you there.

And the fuel milage will be much better with the auto trans than the manual.

By all means get the auto.

By the way I have tested mine from the Baja to Alaska and back this year so it's seen a bit of everything.

[transamz9]

I had a SB DD in my 2010 that was in it when I bought it. IDK what the material was that it was made of but I hated it. I think it was designed to pull a sled. Spool it up and let out. There wasn't any easing out and it squalled every time you took off. Sound like I was barking tires every time I took off. It also sounded like someone had thrown a hand full off gravel in the transmission when it was sitting and idling with the clutch out. It sucked in a parking lot.

[rhagfo]

Grit dog wrote:
To rfhago s point, a mild dual disk Southbend like a DD3250 is smoother engagement and less pedal pressure than a stout single disk like an OFE, in my experince.
Not necessary to go with a DD clutch for the application we are talking about, but now that I'm on my second single disk SB clutch and having driven a few DD SB clutch trucks, I'd go DD from the get go.
Of course my single now rattles more than any DD clutch. Southbend did me a solid when I wore out the OFE and made me a one off full ceramic (buttons) single with a 3600lb pressure plate in an old school 3 finger design with roller tips.
Takes a lot of leg to disengage it, but it holds like no other single I've seen and rattles so loud with the rollers that my CR sounds like a 24V idling with the clutch engaged!
And the price was right. $500 + shipped to AK because the Rep at SB thought my clutch didn't last as long as it should have. Got 85kmi out of it only.
Lifetime SB customer here after service like that!

Exactly why I chose to go with a DD Organic clutch! I did research different types and materials. My research showed that for the weight I pull, the HP & TQ I will likely get to the Organic DD, provided the grip,smooth operation and moderate pedal pressure to operate.
The only down side is the "rattle" of the floater plate while the clutch is not engaged, but only during shifting and getting into gear.