starting to look at trucks

[MR_MAC]

I'm in no hurry, but looking at used (2016 and up) F150's, looking at eng. size and wondering what would be best a 3.5 Ecoboost or a 5.0 L V8 . to pull a 7000lb trailer (TT) I think I"m leaning towards the V8, to pull over hills in Maine.

Thanks Rob

[JIMNLIN]

totaldla wrote:
Does the 10spd give you a lower 1st gear and reverse? If not then a lower geared rear end is nice to have.

Google is a wonderful tool for finding information on a subject like the 10 speed Ford/GM tranny.
Gear splits start at 4.70 ratio 1st gear and a 4.87 reverse..........

vs old tech 4 speed trannies 2.5/3.0 1st gear ratio with about the same ratio for reverse.

Wifes '06 1500 5.3 engine 4l60e tranny 3.73 rear gears pulled my 10k car hauler with a 7500 lb blue tractor. It really struggled getting the load started and bogged every hill.
Her '16 1500 same 4wd crew cab short bed with the new gen 5.3 6l80e 3.42 gears pulls the sane car haul;er with the same blue tractor over the same roads/hills. The 6 speed has lower 1st gears/reverse and has no problems with the same load at launch or at speed.

No need for low rear gear with the new 6/8/10 speed trannies in a 1/2 ton truck that is payload limited anywayz by their small 3800-4800 rawr numbers.

[totaldla]

Does the 10spd give you a lower 1st gear and reverse? If not then a lower geared rear end is nice to have.

[GrandpaKip]

Slowmover wrote:
Today’s trucks are also far heavier. On better tires, but not much increase in ultimate traction (contact patch). Given they are also TALLER, they’re not more stable than a mid-90s pickup.

The change to the good is 4-whl disc. And some stability/braking programming.

Trailer brakes are what matter.

The less weight per wheel for a given swept area and contact patch is what wins brand discussions. And allied to a low COG.

A pickup is a handicapped vehicle.

Still can’t figure out your point.

[GrandpaKip]

Slowmover wrote:
Pickup truck INHERENT instability is the problem. Not drivetrain (that’s like arguing paint color).

How well it handles, steers & brakes is key to risk reduction. As solo duty is the SINGLE important consideration for tow vehicle spec.

Choose starting here:

1). Lowest COG
2). Independent Front Suspension
3). Rack & Pinion Steering

Most of all, an actual need. Is a pickup used for business? Farmer, rancher, contractor? Otherwise:

A). What is the weight, size & shape of gear which CANNOT be carried in passenger compartment or trailer?

B). Given solo daily-driver configuration, what is the FF/RR weight bias? (Driving around with an empty bed? Wrong vehicle choice).

Pickups increase the chance of a loss-of-control accident. Towing makes that worse. . Pickup rollover is via “trip hazard”: pothole, curb, soft shoulder. Towing Loss-of-Control is via over-correction. . Road hazard & adverse winds: a pair of top-heavy vehicles on inadequate suspension with incorrect hitch rigging (means you don’t much care about your family) is the highest risk configuration.

Today’s conventional travel trailers are worse by design than years before. Slide-outs for fat people have raised floors to 4’ and more. And they’re still on UNACCEPTABLE leaf spring suspensions.

There is no worse towing combination than a pickup & one of these trailers.

Put the money where it’s needed:

a). Antilock disc brakes on the TT

b). Torsion Axle

c). Hensley-patent hitch

Pickups need so many bandaids it’s ridiculous. And still cannot overcome design deficiencies (“Hi, the 1940s want their farm vehicle back”).

As each of you is also unable to correctly set a WDH (saying 92% is too polite) THAT is the topic which should dominate these pages.

That it doesn’t, shows the value of advice on RV forums.

Road-going stability is the game. Pickups don’t have that.

Start with a clean sheet.

(And, no, no ones impressed by you new guys with your ten or twenty years. Quite the opposite)


.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out what your point is and what it has to do with the original post. Is it that you just hate pickups?

[TurnThePage]

Handicapped in what way?
When trying to maneuver on a race track at speed? Perhaps.
When loading a pallet of whatever at the big box store? Not so much.
When towing a fifth wheel? Not so much.
It is a tool built for a variety of jobs and does compromise some to achieve that goal. However, my 2015 Ram 1500 is light years ahead of my 1997 F150 in EVERY way I can think of: stability, acceleration, stopping, fuel mileage (towing and not), occupant safety, etc. Maybe you're just referring to heavy duties, which do all tend to be very tall. I haven't noticed them tipping over much though.

[Slowmover]

Today’s trucks are also far heavier. On better tires, but not much increase in ultimate traction (contact patch). Given they are also TALLER, they’re not more stable than a mid-90s pickup.

The change to the good is 4-whl disc. And some stability/braking programming.

Trailer brakes are what matter.

The less weight per wheel for a given swept area and contact patch is what wins brand discussions. And allied to a low COG.

A pickup is a handicapped vehicle.

[jerem0621]

myredracer wrote:

jerem0621 wrote:


These truck today are light years better than even 3/4 and 1 Ton trucks of 25 years ago.

Jeremiah

How do things like the frames & brakes on the 3/4 & 1 tons compare to the newer 1/2 tons?

Bigger, stronger, safer. There is NO mid 90’s HD truck that has the stopping power of today’s half tons. Never mind the pulling power.

When I bought my Super Duty dually I looked at a 96 XLT F350 dually and it had a 10,000 lb GVWR. Today’s HD SRWs have that.

I am not saying that the older trucks are dangerous wrecks, I’m looking to buy one myself...just understand that their capabilities do not equal what today’s 250/350 2500/3500 trucks do. Many of the older 3/4 ton trucks compare very well spec wise to today’s Half tons.

There were a lot of 3/4 tons rated to tow around 6,000 lbs ish. Many people blew right by that rating (kind of like today)

Thanks,

Jeremiah

[myredracer]

jerem0621 wrote:


These truck today are light years better than even 3/4 and 1 Ton trucks of 25 years ago.

Jeremiah

How do things like the frames & brakes on the 3/4 & 1 tons compare to the newer 1/2 tons?

[jerem0621]

Welp, I’d use any of the appropriately optioned half tones out there.

Meaning enough tow rating.

These truck today are light years better than even 3/4 and 1 Ton trucks of 25 years ago.

Buy what you want, learn about weight distribution hitches and proper loading and have fun.

Watch your weights and you should be good to go. Tens of thousands of people just like you do it every day on American roads.

I pulled a 31.5 ft, 7,700 lb GVWR TT with my 97 F150 with a 5.4 and 3:55 gears and it did a great job for thousands of miles all over Tennessee. Never once an issue but I invested in dialing in my WD hitch and had more than enough axle and tire capacity for my weights.

Plus the truck was awesome to live with day to day. Which is important to a lot of people

I did eventually upgrade to a F350 Dually CC LB but that was to gain the CC and we wanted to carry a Golf Cart in the bed. I was actually disappointed in how the Dually towed..

If buying a newer F150 I would buy the 5.0 for simplicity sake or the 3.5...whichever one I could get the best deal on that met my mission.

Thanks and JMHO based on experience.

Jeremiah

[Slowmover]

Pickup truck INHERENT instability is the problem. Not drivetrain (that’s like arguing paint color).

How well it handles, steers & brakes is key to risk reduction. As solo duty is the SINGLE important consideration for tow vehicle spec.

Choose starting here:

1). Lowest COG
2). Independent Front Suspension
3). Rack & Pinion Steering

Most of all, an actual need. Is a pickup used for business? Farmer, rancher, contractor? Otherwise:

A). What is the weight, size & shape of gear which CANNOT be carried in passenger compartment or trailer?

B). Given solo daily-driver configuration, what is the FF/RR weight bias? (Driving around with an empty bed? Wrong vehicle choice).

Pickups increase the chance of a loss-of-control accident. Towing makes that worse. . Pickup rollover is via “trip hazard”: pothole, curb, soft shoulder. Towing Loss-of-Control is via over-correction. . Road hazard & adverse winds: a pair of top-heavy vehicles on inadequate suspension with incorrect hitch rigging (means you don’t much care about your family) is the highest risk configuration.

Today’s conventional travel trailers are worse by design than years before. Slide-outs for fat people have raised floors to 4’ and more. And they’re still on UNACCEPTABLE leaf spring suspensions.

There is no worse towing combination than a pickup & one of these trailers.

Put the money where it’s needed:

a). Antilock disc brakes on the TT

b). Torsion Axle

c). Hensley-patent hitch

Pickups need so many bandaids it’s ridiculous. And still cannot overcome design deficiencies (“Hi, the 1940s want their farm vehicle back”).

As each of you is also unable to correctly set a WDH (saying 92% is too polite) THAT is the topic which should dominate these pages.

That it doesn’t, shows the value of advice on RV forums.

Road-going stability is the game. Pickups don’t have that.

Start with a clean sheet.

(And, no, no ones impressed by you new guys with your ten or twenty years. Quite the opposite)


.

[2112]

Look at the yellow sticker on the driver door jam that states that trucks payload. Get the most payload you can find.

[librty02]

I'm going to use this truck as an example...both same exact trucks same 10 speed transmission with different gear ratio as I see this thread turn into a bunch of nonsense...

2018 Ford F-150 SuperCrew 3.5 Eco 145 inch wheelbase

With 3.31
GCWR 16100
Max Towing Capacity 10700

With 3.55
GCWR 18100
Max Towing Capacity 12700

[valhalla360]

Terryallan wrote:
But that is not what you said to start. You very clearly said. Rear gears don't mean anything any more "I wouldn't get too hung up on rear-end ratios...with the newer 10speed transmissions, the truck can select an appropriate gear to convert HP to torque at the wheels".
I maintain it does. In fact in this post you agree in a sort of sideways way. "a lower gear is an option to solve that".


BTW. If a person is going to tow a 7000lb + TT with a 150. It better have a lower gear than a 3.05.

You are the one assuming that towing over the ratings is a good idea. I never suggested that. You are taking things out of context. Once the truck is rated to tow the load, rear end doesn't make much difference with newer trucks.

[JIMNLIN]

360 wrote:
Only reason you might need a deeper rear-end is to boost the ultimate towing capability but the discussion presumes he isn't over the tow rating and it is about drive-ability.

Good points.
Looking at fleet Fords F150 3.5 EB super cab 2019 towing specs starts out at 10700 lbs with the 3.15 gears....3.31 gears same 10700 lbs.....3.55 gears at 12000 lbs....and 3.73 drops back to 11700 lbs. Not that big of a jump like the old 4 speed trannies.
'course we don't know all the different equipment package goes with each tow rating but 3.15/3.31 will work for up to 10700 lbs says Ford specs.

If I was the OP and wanted the F150 as a daily driver and to pull a trailer I would look at the 3.5 Ecoboost engine. Some are getting great mpg on their daily commute and that 470 ft lbs torque hard to beat.

[Terryallan]

valhalla360 wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

Terryallan wrote:


so you are saying. They should only make ONE rear gear ratio? Wonder why they still make lower gears, and rate them to tow so much more? It's a puzzle.

Not sure how you came up with that?

The 10speed means you have a gear ratio available that matches what the rig needs to what the engine produces.

With the old 3 speed transmissions, you often wound up having to drop down to a gear that was too deep, so the engine would be lightly loaded but screaming at high RPM when towing. A deeper rear-end could allow you to run in the higher gear and keep the engine better loaded at lower RPM. (This assumes you are within ratings with either rear-end...no one is suggesting towing beyond the ratings). Of course when not towing, the truck winds up running higher RPM and less efficient. And even with the deeper rear-end, it still didn't always match up well to power needs.

With the 10speed, those issues largely go away. For a given situation, the truck may pick a different gear if the rear-end is changed out but the overall gear ratio will be nearly identical.

Only reason you might need a deeper rear-end is to boost the ultimate towing capability but the discussion presumes he isn't over the tow rating and it is about drive-ability.

I just go by the rating for the different gears. and YES they make a huge difference, Especially up, and down mountains, and starting from a stop. that is one of the reason for the lower gears. Another is keeping the engine in it's power band. Still a puzzle.

If you had ever seen the difference in gear ratios as they run. you would better understand the difference, between a 3.73, and a 3.05. I see it every day. It is what I do.

Nope, I'm familiar...and in the old days of 3 speed transmissions (even the 4 speed to a lesser extent) it made a world of difference for driveability...with 10 speed, just not a big deal.

Again, the ratings are about maxing out the capability...if you exceed the rating for the 3.05...of course it will have issues and going to a lower gear is an option to solve that...but if the trailer is within the 3.05's ratings, no you won't gain much with a modern transmission by swapping out the rear-end.

But that is not what you said to start. You very clearly said. Rear gears don't mean anything any more "I wouldn't get too hung up on rear-end ratios...with the newer 10speed transmissions, the truck can select an appropriate gear to convert HP to torque at the wheels".
I maintain it does. In fact in this post you agree in a sort of sideways way. "a lower gear is an option to solve that".


BTW. If a person is going to tow a 7000lb + TT with a 150. It better have a lower gear than a 3.05.