Stranded/broke down

[ib516]

Pulling through the city of Calgary, on the bypass. Had just filled with fuel 3 miles back. ¼ tank to full. Pulling up hill, gauges all normal, cruise set. Start to lose power and slow down. I reacted by adding throttle. Still decelerating. Had music on, couldn't hear what the engine was doing. Slowing more now, foot to the floor...get that sinking feeling that something is wrong. Turn on the 4 ways and pull over, truck died before I got stopped.

Truck cranks fine and sounds like it wants to start but never quite does.

No codes stored, no check engine light. Yes I'm sure I filled with unleaded.

So I'm camping in my brother's driveway. Truck is at the shop, hopefully they look at it first thing. Truck has 250,000 km or 150,000 miles.

So...what's your guess?

I'm thinking fuel pump.

[1320Fastback]

NJRVer wrote:
Not bad gas, wrong fuel.
A few years ago a station "somehow" ended up with jet fuel in their tank.
cars made it about 1/4 mile and died on the road.
turned out the owner also had another station station with the same problem.

State hit him with some massive fines and next thing you know the station is under new ownership.

I used to run Jet A in my private CUCV back in the days. That exhaust smelled so sweet. You'd do a double take sniff 🙂

[Grit_dog]

JRscooby wrote:

Grit dog wrote:

ib516 wrote:
And the diagnosis is....
No fuel pressure, power and ground to fuel pump good. Diagnosis bad fuel pump.

Murphys Law dictated that...because your tank is plum full of fuel!

Oh well, i't about a horse a piece whether you take the bed off or drop the tank. Removing the bed just requires more hands.
Glad you got er diagnosed and relatively cheap/simple repair.

Talk of Murphy's Law. Fuel pump went out on DW's S10 with about 70,000 miles on it. I dropped the tank to replace, and while I had it down I measure from center of pump to mount marks, transferred measurements to bottom of bed, and drilled a 1/8th inch hole. Next time that pump fails I will put a door in the floor. We sold that truck with just under 200,000 miles, and I never had to change the pump again.

See, ya scared that truck straight! It knew you meant business and if it failed again, you were going to preform surgery by sawzall on it!
Funny story, went down to Oregon to buy a used mower, turned out the dude was a landscaper. Oh well was hoping for a private owner...anyway guy and one of his helpers are butchering up a truck bed to get to the fuel pump. Already got one hole cut, wrong spot, cutting another hole and Guy is yelling "don't hit the tank when you're cutting it". Then he starts yelling "$&!?;?;$ STOP, you just cut into the tank!!!"
Couple a goobers.

[NJRVer]

Not bad gas, wrong fuel.
A few years ago a station "somehow" ended up with jet fuel in their tank.
cars made it about 1/4 mile and died on the road.
turned out the owner also had another station station with the same problem.

State hit him with some massive fines and next thing you know the station is under new ownership.

[Grit_dog]

JRscooby wrote:

For the first 5-6 years I had my last pickup I treated it like I had others for years, when low on gas, fill it up. Then one trip I hooked to the camper with 3/4 tank of gas that had been in the tank for about 3 months. Truck ran, but spent a lot of time in lower gears. Stopped when 1/2, filled, ran better. Filled again at half, more improvement. Now, unless I'm going out of town, when it gets to 1/4, I put in 5 gallons. If we don't go camping that will last a month. That way, when ready to hook up I can take on at least 15 gallons of fresh gas, and she does better.

True story ^. Although I'd liken it to old gas not bad gas. Although it does happen, the only bad gas I've gotten in many years is from gettin real durnk the night before or sometimes Mexican food! lol
Quality of fuel, age of fuel and ethanol content for stored fuel is real.
One of the old wives tales about filling the fuel tank on stuff before storage to prevent condensation build up is , well a wives tale unless we're talking an old John Deere parked in the snow all winter with a crappy metal tank and a crappy metal gas cap.
I'll take an empty or mostly empty tank during storage in everything I own with an engine along with the condensation "risk" over a full tank of 6-12 month old gas. Period unless gas is non ethanol stabilized, race fuel or avgas.
And if one is worried about condensation, fill with a tank of 10% ethanol and let er rip. It's like adding 3 cans of HEET to the tank.

[ls1mike]

TravelinDog wrote:

Cobra21 wrote:
My guess is fuel pump also. Breakdowns are no fun.
Brian

That's pretty funny. This isn't 1950. "Bad gas" is a thing of urban legend anymore. I have yet to find ANYONE that has actually gotten "bad gas" when buying it at any commercial retailer.
They always know somebody that says they got bad gas or heard of somebody that got bad gas like their sisters boyfriends dads uncle in Alabama. :R

It certainly is a thing. My 2015 Turbo Malibu, at the local Texaco. Affected 10 other cars, plus the stores owner, covered by their insurance.
Filled up drove 5 miles, car stopped, crank and no start. It was 6 months old. Had it towed to the dealer. 550 dollars to fix it. They kept a sample. Mostly water. Went to where we filled up. Owner admitted it affected his Lexus and at least 10 other cars before they closed the pumps. They had just had maintenance which allowed a large amount of water in the system. Costco about 2 years ago here in Washington had a similar problem. The paid to fix as I recall about 120 cars affected before it was caught.

Here is a new article, this was similar to what happened to my car.
Bad gas June 2019
You are right it isn't 1950 where you got bad gas, dumped it and moved on. Bad gas will mess pretty bad with an EFI or Direct injected car.

[JRscooby]

Grit dog wrote:

ib516 wrote:
And the diagnosis is....
No fuel pressure, power and ground to fuel pump good. Diagnosis bad fuel pump.

Murphys Law dictated that...because your tank is plum full of fuel!

Oh well, i't about a horse a piece whether you take the bed off or drop the tank. Removing the bed just requires more hands.
Glad you got er diagnosed and relatively cheap/simple repair.

Talk of Murphy's Law. Fuel pump went out on DW's S10 with about 70,000 miles on it. I dropped the tank to replace, and while I had it down I measure from center of pump to mount marks, transferred measurements to bottom of bed, and drilled a 1/8th inch hole. Next time that pump fails I will put a door in the floor. We sold that truck with just under 200,000 miles, and I never had to change the pump again.

[JRscooby]

TravelinDog wrote:

Cobra21 wrote:
My guess is fuel pump also. Breakdowns are no fun.
Brian

That's pretty funny. This isn't 1950. "Bad gas" is a thing of urban legend anymore. I have yet to find ANYONE that has actually gotten "bad gas" when buying it at any commercial retailer.
They always know somebody that says they got bad gas or heard of somebody that got bad gas like their sisters boyfriends dads uncle in Alabama. :R

Most people do not understand the enforcement of EPA regulations, where gas leaking from a tank can and will lead to massive fines has as a side benefit reduced the contamination of gas from stuff leaking in.
For the first 5-6 years I had my last pickup I treated it like I had others for years, when low on gas, fill it up. Then one trip I hooked to the camper with 3/4 tank of gas that had been in the tank for about 3 months. Truck ran, but spent a lot of time in lower gears. Stopped when 1/2, filled, ran better. Filled again at half, more improvement. Now, unless I'm going out of town, when it gets to 1/4, I put in 5 gallons. If we don't go camping that will last a month. That way, when ready to hook up I can take on at least 15 gallons of fresh gas, and she does better.

[TravelinDog]

Cobra21 wrote:
My guess is fuel pump also. Breakdowns are no fun.
Brian

That's pretty funny. This isn't 1950. "Bad gas" is a thing of urban legend anymore. I have yet to find ANYONE that has actually gotten "bad gas" when buying it at any commercial retailer.
They always know somebody that says they got bad gas or heard of somebody that got bad gas like their sisters boyfriends dads uncle in Alabama. :R

[FishOnOne]

My wife noticed her 2014 Ford Edge Sport would take longer to start when leaving work to go home so we took it to the Ford shop and turned out to be a weak fuel pump so it was replaced under warranty. No check engine light either.

[garyp4951]

All you need in Costa Rica is a diesel Toyota Hilux 🙂

[ls1mike]

ib516 wrote:
An
When doing my last oil change, I did notice I have at least one broken exhaust manifold bolt, but there may be others. It does have a bit of a tick sometimes. Not sure if that is "Hemi Tick" of the broken manifold bolt. I think I'll save that job for next year.

Every Gasser I have towed with I have had to do exhaust manifold bolts. I hate doing them. So when I picked up the 2017 3 months ago. I purchased ARP Chromoly fasteners and swapped them all out while it is young. Hopefully I won't break any on this this truck.

[ib516]

And next ladies and gents, I noticed some unusual wear on my front tires, and got to checking things in the front end. I had some loose ball joints and worn tie rod ends. So, I just bit the bullet and replaced everything.

New ball joints (upper and lower), new tie rod ends (inner and outer), and since I was in there, new complete strut assemblies which were the original ones and seemed ok but... then of course a wheel alignment is needed. The bill was $1000 all in, but I got the parts cheap and had a friend with a lift do the work. This truck has to last me 3 more years at which time I will retire from law enforcement and move. So hopefully this is the last major fix. The truck is a high miler that had 240,000 Km (150,000 miles) when I got it and now has 254,000 Km (160,000 miles) on it. I have no idea what kind of life it lived before I bought it. When I forst got it, I changed all the fluids and the engine and trans seem solid, the pan was relatively clean when I dropped it to service the transmission. The rear end howls a bit on coast down, but at least it now has new fluid, and the magnet wasn't too loaded up when I took the diff cover off to service the rear end.

When doing my last oil change, I did notice I have at least one broken exhaust manifold bolt, but there may be others. It does have a bit of a tick sometimes. Not sure if that is "Hemi Tick" of the broken manifold bolt. I think I'll save that job for next year.

[time2roll]

Backfire through the intake is generally a lean mixture condition.
This points to a possible low fuel pressure issue.
Not too early to just change the fuel filter but you might put the gauge on first to know the current conditions.

[maillemaker]

So I have been fighting this high-temp shutdown problem for about a year now. Thought I had it licked last fall when I replaced the ignition control module, but the problem returned in the spring. Thought I had it licked when I replaced the distributor (and thus PIP sensor), but just had a week long trip ruined when it died in 95F+ heat just to Chattanooga, after a 2 hour run with the AC on.

Engine just sputters and dies. Backfires through the intake. Any attempt to give gas makes it worse. Eventually it dies trying to idle.

Saw this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6rf9oPDq1I

Exact same symptoms and motor.

I have already replaced the in-tank pump about 5 years ago. But it turns out my RV has an external high pressure pump.

It is possible this pump is failing. I will be installing a fuel pressure gauge soon.

But I believe what is happening is that with modern ethanol-blended gasoline, which has a lower vapor temperature than pure gasoline that this engine was designed for back in 1990, that at high ambient temperatures, combined with the heat load of the AC condenser, that it gets hot enough to start boiling the fuel in the fuel rail.

And when that vapor gets to the Fuel Pressure Regulator mounted on the rail, which controls the flow of fuel back to the gas tank (that is how it controls the pressure), it causes the regulator to shut off the flow of fuel back to the tank, which makes the fuel in the rail get even hotter and boil even more.

After the engine cools off 20 minutes, it starts up and runs fine. We went back and picked up the RV on Friday night after temps dropped into the 80s, and I drove the RV the whole way home with the AC off and no issues at all.

Plugged into ODB1 code reader and no codes.

Sadly temps are now finally starting to dip for fall so I may not have a chance to run this at high temperatures again to confirm until Spring.

But I am going to install a GlowShift fuel pressure gauge and see where my PSI stands right now, and then I'm going to replace the fuel filter (85K miles on it) and the high pressure fuel pump and see what the effect is on fuel pressure readings from the get-go.

I am also considering installing some louvered vents in the hood to help reduce under-hood temperatures.

Steve