The problem with dealers and warranty repairs

[brulaz]

Transengineer over at cumminsforum has a great rant about why dealer service departments are problematic:
Transengineer Rant

He is referring specifically to warrantied repairs paid for by RAM.
In summary:

transengineer wrote:
Yes, this is one reason why new vehicles are so expensive. And why dealerships are such profitable businesses. The more they screw up, the more money they make.

Are other manufacturers this bad? Maybe the Tesla model of manufacturer provided warranty repairs is better.

[jsr21]

I am an ex Dodge dealer...JALLEN4 is correct.

[brulaz]

JALLEN4 wrote:

brulaz wrote:

Lessmore wrote:

brulaz wrote:
Transengineer over at cumminsforum has a great rant about why dealer service departments are problematic:
Transengineer Rant

He is referring specifically to warrantied repairs paid for by RAM.
In summary:

transengineer wrote:
Yes, this is one reason why new vehicles are so expensive. And why dealerships are such profitable businesses. The more they screw up, the more money they make.

Are other manufacturers this bad? Maybe the Tesla model of manufacturer provided warranty repairs is better.

That's quite a jump implying Tesla would somehow be better.
...

I made no such implication. "Maybe" is the term I used. The "somehow" is that with Tesla, the manufacturer, is directly responsible for warranty repairs of their cars. Thus they have more control over how they are done.

With the franchise or dealership model, RAM apparently has little control, and "the more they screw up, the more money they make."

It has nothing to do with Tesla per se :R , but is all about how best to handle warranty repairs.

Whether the other manufacturers have such loose control over their dealers is another question. And maybe RAM could step up and improve how their dealers handle this.

What bugs me is that such sloppy repair work under warranty will prolly translate to sloppy repair work out of warranty. And if your local RAM dealer is all that's available to you, you are screwed.

I am afraid your assumption about Ram not having any control over the dealership's repair process is very wrong. Any and all warranty repairs must be approved for payment by the manufacturer after being submitted to them. Every major manufacturer has an incredibly sophisticated system controlling their warranty process and approval process. Their warranty algorithm will immediately flag a suspicious repair that falls outside the parameters of repair set by their engineers and the engineers of the suppliers. They have the option to reject the repair payment, call for the involved parts for inspection, or to send in a team for an audit and chargebacks when there is too much discrepancy.

The internet is full of mechanical warriors who know far more than the dealer or the manufacturer about the product and how to repair it...or so they claim. The people who designed the product, built the product, pay the warranty costs, and process millions of warranty claims yearly would most likely have a better chance to have this knowledge. Every warranty repair order claimed is computerized and analyzed. Every repair is compared to thousands of other similar repairs, repair policy and procedure, and the guidelines established by the supplier of the components. I will guarantee you the dealer cannot just claim additional parts for the repair for higher profits and the manufacturer just casually pays them.

Pretty much everything you say is the opposite of what transengineer said. Not sure if you even read transengineer's rant.
He is generally believed to be a RAM engineer specializing in transmissions (esp. the 68RFE) and is a well-respected member of that forum. I'll take his opinion over yours anytime, anyday.

[JALLEN4]

brulaz wrote:

Lessmore wrote:

brulaz wrote:
Transengineer over at cumminsforum has a great rant about why dealer service departments are problematic:
Transengineer Rant

He is referring specifically to warrantied repairs paid for by RAM.
In summary:

transengineer wrote:
Yes, this is one reason why new vehicles are so expensive. And why dealerships are such profitable businesses. The more they screw up, the more money they make.

Are other manufacturers this bad? Maybe the Tesla model of manufacturer provided warranty repairs is better.

That's quite a jump implying Tesla would somehow be better.
...

I made no such implication. "Maybe" is the term I used. The "somehow" is that with Tesla, the manufacturer, is directly responsible for warranty repairs of their cars. Thus they have more control over how they are done.

With the franchise or dealership model, RAM apparently has little control, and "the more they screw up, the more money they make."

It has nothing to do with Tesla per se :R , but is all about how best to handle warranty repairs.

Whether the other manufacturers have such loose control over their dealers is another question. And maybe RAM could step up and improve how their dealers handle this.

What bugs me is that such sloppy repair work under warranty will prolly translate to sloppy repair work out of warranty. And if your local RAM dealer is all that's available to you, you are screwed.

I am afraid your assumption about Ram not having any control over the dealership's repair process is very wrong. Any and all warranty repairs must be approved for payment by the manufacturer after being submitted to them. Every major manufacturer has an incredibly sophisticated system controlling their warranty process and approval process. Their warranty algorithm will immediately flag a suspicious repair that falls outside the parameters of repair set by their engineers and the engineers of the suppliers. They have the option to reject the repair payment, call for the involved parts for inspection, or to send in a team for an audit and chargebacks when there is too much discrepancy.

The internet is full of mechanical warriors who know far more than the dealer or the manufacturer about the product and how to repair it...or so they claim. The people who designed the product, built the product, pay the warranty costs, and process millions of warranty claims yearly would most likely have a better chance to have this knowledge. Every warranty repair order claimed is computerized and analyzed. Every repair is compared to thousands of other similar repairs, repair policy and procedure, and the guidelines established by the supplier of the components. I will guarantee you the dealer cannot just claim additional parts for the repair for higher profits and the manufacturer just casually pays them.

[transamz9]

No , I look at it that the super tech will make them more because I won't take my stuff back because of the cheap tech.

[moresmoke]

A lot of it is in the whole dealer business model.

Look at it this way, a dealer hires a tech for $15/hr, and charges $100/hr for his time, or they can hire a super tech for $30.

The $15 tech actually costs the business about $30/hr, $100-$30=$70

The $30 tech actually costs the business about $45/hr, $100-$45=$55

The super tech can complete a job right in 60% of the time it takes the other guy. So for a 1 hr job, the cheap guy makes the dealer $70, the super tech makes the dealer $33. The good mechanic needs more jobs through the shop to get the same return.

The shop overhead is more of a daily rate than hourly, so the more guys they can get in the shop taking longer to do less jobs, the more money the dealer makes.

The flat rate system that is common in auto shops helps to adjust for this, but is not used in all industries. I work for an equipment manufacturer, unfortunately we are only a short line company, so all of our dealers have some other brand as their main line. We have absolutely no control over how the dealers operate. I work with dealers over a 2 state area, there are only about 10 dealers out of 100 that I would personally consider doing business with.

[transamz9]

I have had two different Toyota dealers I two different states tell me that two different Toyota Tundras (2010/2011) needed new engines. Had them both hauled back to my shop and put VVT solenoids in them and both are fine. Almost 2 years on one and 3 months on the other.

I took my 2006 F350 to my local dealer to have injector put in it about a month ago because I didn't have time. They installed them and took it for a test drive and didn't go two miles before the mechanic said the truck made a loud noise and locked up. I needed a new engine. I had it towed to my shop and pulled the injectors. Number 3 and number 2 had lifted and blew the o-rings. Replaced the o-rings and good to go. I have lost all confidence in dealships.

[brulaz]

Lessmore wrote:

brulaz wrote:
Transengineer over at cumminsforum has a great rant about why dealer service departments are problematic:
Transengineer Rant

He is referring specifically to warrantied repairs paid for by RAM.
In summary:

transengineer wrote:
Yes, this is one reason why new vehicles are so expensive. And why dealerships are such profitable businesses. The more they screw up, the more money they make.

Are other manufacturers this bad? Maybe the Tesla model of manufacturer provided warranty repairs is better.

That's quite a jump implying Tesla would somehow be better.
...

I made no such implication. "Maybe" is the term I used. The "somehow" is that with Tesla, the manufacturer, is directly responsible for warranty repairs of their cars. Thus they have more control over how they are done.

With the franchise or dealership model, RAM apparently has little control, and "the more they screw up, the more money they make."

It has nothing to do with Tesla per se :R , but is all about how best to handle warranty repairs.

Whether the other manufacturers have such loose control over their dealers is another question. And maybe RAM could step up and improve how their dealers handle this.

What bugs me is that such sloppy repair work under warranty will prolly translate to sloppy repair work out of warranty. And if your local RAM dealer is all that's available to you, you are screwed.

[Bedlam]

I've been luck that my Ram has not needed any repairs, but it does currently have outstanding recalls awaiting parts. This was my biggest hesitation going to Ram since both GM and Ford have a much larger dealer network and I had very good experiences with the local Ford service.

[Lessmore]

brulaz wrote:
Transengineer over at cumminsforum has a great rant about why dealer service departments are problematic:
Transengineer Rant

He is referring specifically to warrantied repairs paid for by RAM.
In summary:

transengineer wrote:
Yes, this is one reason why new vehicles are so expensive. And why dealerships are such profitable businesses. The more they screw up, the more money they make.

Are other manufacturers this bad? Maybe the Tesla model of manufacturer provided warranty repairs is better.

That's quite a jump implying Tesla would somehow be better.

Back to the subject at hand. Another factor in proper repairs...is it also depends on how repairs to the vehicle are done, by the mechanic in question. If he's sloppy, not thorough, not skilled, etc...then chances are the repair is going to reflect this state of affairs.

The other thing is a good mechanic may be working at one garage one day and another garage the next day.

Any repair is only going to be as good as the guy who does the repair. Of course if the company employing the worker, is looking for short cuts that affect the quality of the repair, then it doesn't matter how good the mechanic is.

[Wild_Card]

Case in point

My ''Ram'' just went in for racalls, inspection, tire ballance and a leaking rear pinion seal.

Upon my drive home Tuesday night the rear started howling/growling and vibrating under de acceleration. Now my truck is back in the shop awaiting for either (A) new pinion bearings (B) full rear rebuild or (C) whole new rear.

Why did this happen...I will never know. No fluid? Never torqued pinion nut properly? damaged pinion bearing getting companion flange off? underlying damage that caused the pinion seal to leak in the first place? I will never know.

What I do know is it wasnt an issue before and I was even hesitant to let them replace the seal in the first place. Now look what you done did...