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Tight nuts

pigbike
Explorer
Explorer
I took my Dodge 3500 to the local Dodge dealer for a tire rotation today. They said that they couldn't get the lug nuts loose on the rear duallies. They tried soaking them with penetrating oil but they wouldn't break loose.

They never got them off and told me to make an appt. so they could heat them up and try again.

Has anyone every had this problem? I was there when the tires were put on and the tech tightened them with a torque wrench to my surprise.

Any suggestions on how to get them loose. They said they tried a breaker bar and air tool but no go.
65 REPLIES 65

jmckelvy
Explorer
Explorer
Hannibal wrote:
transamz9 wrote:
06Fargo wrote:
I like peanuts.

The Big Fight to remove rear wheels is a often overlooked side benefit of a dually.

Consult your local tire experts or the Tire & Rim association before putting anti-seize compounds on wheel mountings regarding getting correct torque values afterwards.


I've never had a problem with a Ram or a GM but the SD lug nuts have a locking devise in them that can be a major PITA. The problem with them is that there is enough play in the nut and locking washer that you loose all the torque the impact has to remove it. On a dually, you almost have to use a long anvil impact to be able to get to the lug nuts. If you use an extension you will loose torque . My 1/2" drive impact has 1200 ftlb of torque and there are times I have to break out the 5' strong arm to break some of our SD lug nuts loose.

Those aren't lock washers. They're flat washers that require a drop of motor oil between the nut and washer to prevent seizing. Works like a champ. I much prefer them over my previous Ram's lug nuts.
Do long bed crew cabs make less rear wheel torque than reg cab short beds due to the length of the drive shaft? I've never heard of the length of a shaft reducing torque.


Torque wouldn't be reduced due to the length of the shaft if using a breaker bar applying a constant force. It would merely rotate through a greater angle due to the longer shaft twisting (more than a shorter shaft) to the desired torque level, assuming the longer shaft doesn't twist apart.

The impact wrench does not apply a continuous force to "take up" the "twist" required for the longer shaft to transfer the desired torque level. In a sense the longer shaft is acting as a torque filter.
06 RAM 3500,Dually,CTD,Auto(ATS Stage 1),QC,4X4,PacBrake,Spyntec Freespin Hubs,60 Gal Titan Tank,EFI Live, Line-X,Torklifts and SuperHitch,Fastguns
2013 Arctic Fox 990, 275 Watts Solar, 2 Grp 31 AGMs
US Navy 1964-1968, 2-Tour Vietnam Vet

jmckelvy
Explorer
Explorer
fj12ryder wrote:
Aluminum alloy lug nuts? I don't know what year the OP's truck is but my '01 Dodge dually has steel lug nuts and steel wheel studs. But I also have steel wheels.


Same for my 2006 RAM dually. IIRC mine get torqued to 150 lb-ft.
06 RAM 3500,Dually,CTD,Auto(ATS Stage 1),QC,4X4,PacBrake,Spyntec Freespin Hubs,60 Gal Titan Tank,EFI Live, Line-X,Torklifts and SuperHitch,Fastguns
2013 Arctic Fox 990, 275 Watts Solar, 2 Grp 31 AGMs
US Navy 1964-1968, 2-Tour Vietnam Vet

B_Sjulestad
Explorer II
Explorer II
Switch to boxer briefs


That's too funny
Bob & Dianne
2016 GMC Denali 3500HD 4x4 DRW D/A
2013 Cedar Creek 36ckts
Emmy,Sassy and Flower our 4 legged kids

Hannibal
Explorer
Explorer
transamz9 wrote:
06Fargo wrote:
I like peanuts.

The Big Fight to remove rear wheels is a often overlooked side benefit of a dually.

Consult your local tire experts or the Tire & Rim association before putting anti-seize compounds on wheel mountings regarding getting correct torque values afterwards.


I've never had a problem with a Ram or a GM but the SD lug nuts have a locking devise in them that can be a major PITA. The problem with them is that there is enough play in the nut and locking washer that you loose all the torque the impact has to remove it. On a dually, you almost have to use a long anvil impact to be able to get to the lug nuts. If you use an extension you will loose torque . My 1/2" drive impact has 1200 ftlb of torque and there are times I have to break out the 5' strong arm to break some of our SD lug nuts loose.

Those aren't lock washers. They're flat washers that require a drop of motor oil between the nut and washer to prevent seizing. Works like a champ. I much prefer them over my previous Ram's lug nuts.
Do long bed crew cabs make less rear wheel torque than reg cab short beds due to the length of the drive shaft? I've never heard of the length of a shaft reducing torque.
2020 F250 STX CC SB 7.3L 10spd 3.55 4x4
2010 F250 XLT CC SB 5.4L 5spdTS 3.73
ex '95 Cummins,'98 12v Cummins,'01.5 Cummins,'03 Cummins; '05 Hemi
2017 Jayco 28RLS TT 32.5'

Wes_Tausend
Explorer
Explorer
...

I imagine very few will agree with me, and I avoided saying earlier, but I would rather have the wheel nuts too loose, than too tight, on my own equipment. Same goes for oil filters and many other fasteners. The key is to double-check them soon and triple check them later.

I never use a torque wrench on my wheels, and rely on an experienced feel when tightening the nuts. I always use oil on them, both threads and face, and have rarely had to retighten them while double-checking, and never at a triple-check.

Most importantly, they come off with reasonable boondock effort if I do this, but I have had them obviously too tight when mounted by a shop. I have to admit that I tighten them only slightly tighter with, or without, a torque wrench if the vehicle is someone elses, but have never had one of these come loose.

I have had my oil filter drip once, after mounting, because I barely tighten them at all, assuming I personally must remove it next. They will not fall off, but can seep if not tight enough. I finger-mount too tight, immediately loosen, then gently retighten short of bottom, maybe an 8th turn after full contact. I do have various special tools to remove them. But, there is very little more irritating than an oil filter that must have a screwdriver driven through it, or the rim chiseled, to remove it. Momentarily, I'd like to choke the amateurs that cause that. 😉

Wes
...
Days spent camping are not subtracted from one's total.
- 2019 Leprechaun 311FS Class C
- Linda, Wes and Quincy the Standard Brown Poodle

transamz9
Explorer
Explorer
06Fargo wrote:
I like peanuts.

The Big Fight to remove rear wheels is a often overlooked side benefit of a dually.

Consult your local tire experts or the Tire & Rim association before putting anti-seize compounds on wheel mountings regarding getting correct torque values afterwards.


I've never had a problem with a Ram or a GM but the SD lug nuts have a locking devise in them that can be a major PITA. The problem with them is that there is enough play in the nut and locking washer that you loose all the torque the impact has to remove it. On a dually, you almost have to use a long anvil impact to be able to get to the lug nuts. If you use an extension you will loose torque . My 1/2" drive impact has 1200 ftlb of torque and there are times I have to break out the 5' strong arm to break some of our SD lug nuts loose.
2016 Ram 3500 Mega Cab Limited/2013 Ram 3500 SRW Cummins(sold)/2005 RAM 2500 Cummins/2011 Sandpiper 345 RET (sold) 2015 Sanibel 3601/2008 Nitro Z9 Mercury 250 PRO XS the best motor made.

noteven
Explorer III
Explorer III
I like peanuts.

The Big Fight to remove rear wheels is a often overlooked side benefit of a dually.

Consult your local tire experts or the Tire & Rim association before putting anti-seize compounds on wheel mountings regarding getting correct torque values afterwards.

Hannibal
Explorer
Explorer
Ah! Those hot boiled peanut stands! Hard to resist!
2020 F250 STX CC SB 7.3L 10spd 3.55 4x4
2010 F250 XLT CC SB 5.4L 5spdTS 3.73
ex '95 Cummins,'98 12v Cummins,'01.5 Cummins,'03 Cummins; '05 Hemi
2017 Jayco 28RLS TT 32.5'

Old-Biscuit
Explorer III
Explorer III
Hannibal wrote:
Old-Biscuit wrote:
Hannibal wrote:
Huntindog wrote:
pigbike wrote:


So for right now I am just soaking my nuts, hoping for good things to happen.

An activity I whole heartily recommend:B


On our last camping trip, I boiled mine so we could all enjoy 'em!:B


Where did you get green peanuts for boiling after Sept.?
Certainly you didn't use dried ones......that's just wrong :B


Sometimes you just have to improvise. They weren't too bad but the 5th wheel sure stunk.:o


That's what a campfire is for.....
Is it time for your medication or mine?


2007 DODGE 3500 QC SRW 5.9L CTD In-Bed 'quiet gen'
2007 HitchHiker II 32.5 UKTG 2000W Xantex Inverter
US NAVY------USS Decatur DDG31

Hannibal
Explorer
Explorer
Old-Biscuit wrote:
Hannibal wrote:
Huntindog wrote:
pigbike wrote:


So for right now I am just soaking my nuts, hoping for good things to happen.

An activity I whole heartily recommend:B


On our last camping trip, I boiled mine so we could all enjoy 'em!:B


Where did you get green peanuts for boiling after Sept.?
Certainly you didn't use dried ones......that's just wrong :B


Sometimes you just have to improvise. They weren't too bad but the 5th wheel sure stunk.:o
2020 F250 STX CC SB 7.3L 10spd 3.55 4x4
2010 F250 XLT CC SB 5.4L 5spdTS 3.73
ex '95 Cummins,'98 12v Cummins,'01.5 Cummins,'03 Cummins; '05 Hemi
2017 Jayco 28RLS TT 32.5'

Old-Biscuit
Explorer III
Explorer III
Hannibal wrote:
Huntindog wrote:
pigbike wrote:


So for right now I am just soaking my nuts, hoping for good things to happen.

An activity I whole heartily recommend:B


On our last camping trip, I boiled mine so we could all enjoy 'em!:B


Where did you get green peanuts for boiling after Sept.?
Certainly you didn't use dried ones......that's just wrong :B
Is it time for your medication or mine?


2007 DODGE 3500 QC SRW 5.9L CTD In-Bed 'quiet gen'
2007 HitchHiker II 32.5 UKTG 2000W Xantex Inverter
US NAVY------USS Decatur DDG31

Hannibal
Explorer
Explorer
Huntindog wrote:
pigbike wrote:


So for right now I am just soaking my nuts, hoping for good things to happen.

An activity I whole heartily recommend:B


On our last camping trip, I boiled mine so we could all enjoy 'em!:B
2020 F250 STX CC SB 7.3L 10spd 3.55 4x4
2010 F250 XLT CC SB 5.4L 5spdTS 3.73
ex '95 Cummins,'98 12v Cummins,'01.5 Cummins,'03 Cummins; '05 Hemi
2017 Jayco 28RLS TT 32.5'

Huntindog
Explorer
Explorer
pigbike wrote:


So for right now I am just soaking my nuts, hoping for good things to happen.

An activity I whole heartily recommend:B
Huntindog
100% boondocking
2021 Grand Design Momentum 398M
2 bathrooms, no waiting
104 gal grey, 104 black,158 fresh
FullBodyPaint, 3,8Kaxles, DiscBrakes
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1860watts solar,800 AH Battleborn batterys
2020 Silverado HighCountry CC DA 4X4 DRW

Old-Biscuit
Explorer III
Explorer III
Me Again wrote:
pigbike wrote:
Well my nuts are back to normal. I went out this morning and broke everyone of them loose with my 1/2 drive 16" breaker bar. No extra pipe needed.

Why the Dodge dealership couldn't do it is beyond me. I'm 63 and didn't even break a sweat doing it by hand. Now I did spray then with penetrating oil several times since going to the dealer but they are not rusted at all. Once I broke them loose I could remove them the rest of the way by hand.

I bet the tech at the dealership is one of these guys who doing tires is below his perceived worth, so he just made up an excuse not to do it.

I will be calling the dealership on Monday.


Just remember lug torque numbers are based on dry clean studs and lugs. That is without lube or anti seize.

Chris


YES.....dry, clean is 100% of torque spec and torque charts will show 10% less torque if light oil lube is used and a 30% less torque if an anti-seize compound is used.

BUT one can use an anti-seize on threads and have a dry, clean contact between flat face of lug nut and wheel surface and use 100% torque without any problems.
Is it time for your medication or mine?


2007 DODGE 3500 QC SRW 5.9L CTD In-Bed 'quiet gen'
2007 HitchHiker II 32.5 UKTG 2000W Xantex Inverter
US NAVY------USS Decatur DDG31