Tow vehicle and everyday driveability question

[crimecrusher]

I have a 2012 WhiteHawk Jayco 28’ that is about 5800 dry and I guess may max is around 7000 fully loaded. I currently tow with a 2011 F150 5.0 with HD towing package and drive around 20k miles a year with 5-7k of that towing miles.

My truck seems to pull this fine and I get around 7-9 mpg towing and 16-17mpg around town not towing. I tow in the flat lands of Texas primarily, but am going to Colorado this summer and may do more of that in the future. My gas mileage is not great and I get a good portion of sway on the highway. If I can keep things around 60mph, it tows a lot better. I don’t have any plans to upgrade to a bigger TT for the next 4-5 years. In about 5 years, I’ll look at a 5th wheel and go bigger truck then.

I’ve been planning to get a 2015 F150 later this winter when they come out but upgrade to the Ecoboost and 4x4. Should this be fine or would I be better served to go ahead and get an F250 4x4 now before my 2000 mile trip to the mountains of Colorado this summer? Would an F250 gas or diesel not be cost effective for everyday driving and towing?

[APT]

Right so you won't know unless you get actual weights for how you RV now. Only then will you know what (if anything) needs more capability or safety margin, or whatever. Until then all we random internet people can do is guess.

[crimecrusher]

I guess something else I should consider is I don't keep trucks past 3-4 years. Once the truck starts to need maintenance on top of a truck payment, it's time for another new one, for me. So I don't need to buy now for a 5er I would get in 5 years. If I was going to pull a 5er, I'll defiantly go F350+ depending on the size I get. When I do that, it'll probably be a purchase that I plan to make and have paid off before I go into retirement. So, I'll buy with the intent of lasting into retirement without having to buy new again on a much more limited income.

But for now, I'm just looking at a new 2015 F150 or do I need a F250 for my current needs. If I should get the F250, I figure I may as well do it now before I leave for a Colorado trip in July. It seems to be a no brainer to go with the F250 for my needs. But what am I loosing in every day drivability, MPG, ride quality, will it fit in my garage, etc. I need to go drive one.

[jaycocreek]

If you bought an 250 now, when you go to buy the 5th wheel, you could find that a 3/4 ton is too small, unless you're planning on buying a smaller FW.

Exactly... The 3/4 ton in fifth wheels is like the modern 1/2 tons in trailers. Some here think the only thing a1/2 ton is good for is pulling pop ups but don't mention most fifth wheels are too heavy for the standard 3/4 ton.

But it is the net.:S

[gcloss]

e-light wrote:
Go with the F250, Ram 2500 or GM 2500 for your next purchase. It'll tow your current trailer much better and you'll be able to get the 5th wheel when you're ready.

I have to agree on going to a 3/4 ton. My Jayco Eagle is very similar in length and weight. I was pulling it with a 2007 RAM 1500 5.7 Hemi w/3.92 rear averaging 9-10 mpg. The 1500 power train was more than capable, but the stability of the truck left a lot to be desired. I traded up to a 2012 RAM 2500 5.7 Hemi w/4.10 rear and what a difference towing.

The towing mileage is about the same, but the stability towing is 100% better. What I do miss is the mileage when not towing. The RAM 1500 had the MDS Hemi making it possible to squeeze out 20-21 mpg on a flat road. My RAM 2500 does not have the MDS and the best I can get with it is 16.5 mpg on a flat road.

Bottom line is I commute to NYC via train, so my Ram 2500 sits in the train station parking lot all day and despite the lower MPG, the move to the Ram 2500 was the best thing I could have done.

[Dr__Blake]

I had a Toyota Tundra w/ the 5.7l engine and my current trailer, it pulled it pretty well considering I do most of my camping in the mountains of Alberta, BC and Washington. My trailer is pretty heavy and has a high GVWR, it had my truck at the limits. As my young family got bigger I knew I was going to be slightly overweight, I decided to get a bigger truck. When I made the decision I thought I would get the biggest single rear wheel truck I could; this would give me more options should I ever decide to upgrade my trailer.

The part the OP is probably most interested in… The new truck is night and day different than my old truck. The stability alone was worth the upgrade, the braking power a close second. Mine is a diesel which gives me a few other nice options like the exhaust brake; however this was an expensive option that isn’t required unless your plan is to get something super heavy down the line. Lastly, the travel days don’t seem to take the same toll they did when I had my Tundra; I get to my destination and I don’t feel like I have been on the road grinding it out. I get to where I am going and I still feel ready to rock. I like that too.

Good luck with your decision!

[myredracer]

If you bought an 250 now, when you go to buy the 5th wheel, you could find that a 3/4 ton is too small, unless you're planning on buying a smaller FW.

Money aside, towing a TT of that size and weight would be so much easier with an F250. It's not just the weight of the TT, you could end with a lot of weight in the TV, esp. on a longer trip. I would not be surprised to find that you are over on payload cap. now. The larger truck would feel a lot more comfortable to tow with. The brakes alone make a big difference and more so in hilly/mountainous terrain. I don't think mpg would necessarily change much and may depend on factors like diff. ratio. Unless you really, really want/need 4WD I would not get it - it reduces your payload cap. a lot and you're higher off the ground (not great IMHO).

We went from an F150 to F250 last year and are towing a 29' TT weighing nearly 7K lbs. The difference is night and day and so much better, I'd never go back to an F150. Until you've tried it, you can't appreciate the difference. We actually get better gas mileage with the 3/4 ton despite having a V10. It is a lot more stable and there's a lot less sway. No regrets...

What to do? No idea.... It depends.

[BurbMan]

Leeblev wrote:
Couple of things you said that are red flags:
l. Lots of sway
2. towing that light trailer gets 7-9 MPG

Meh.

My 2500 with 8.1L big block gets 7-8 mpg towing our 8500 lb trailer. Not that much difference.

I would also add that if you are thinking that sway is going to disappear with a 2500 model you may be setting yourself up for disappointment. Yes, the 2500 model will have stiffer suspension and stiffer LT tires, but not enough to stop sway if you are having issues now. You need to look at the % of total trailer weight on the tongue, and/or upgrading to a better WD hitch to control sway.

That said, you are asking a lot from your 150. BUT, upgrading to a 250 is not the be-all end-all either, since the 5er you choose down the road may require a 350 or dually to handle the weight.

Before you jump into anything, get the truck and trailer weighed separately and together. See what's what on the weights and whether you are within the limits on the 150 and also what we can find out about sway issues.

[jerem0621]

I agree with APT! Go scale the rig! Make sure your tires on the truck and the TT are aired up to 100% capacity and then make sure your WD hitch is set up correctly. If you use a friction sway bar, add a second one to the other side of the a frame.

You may find that your wiggle goes away after these few things are addressed.

Buy a HD truck when you need one. It's too easy to spend someone else's cash.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[legolas]

crimecrusher wrote:
I'm a little surprised that most seem to say the F250 is the way to go, which is what I've been considering. However, the $10k premium over a F150 with similar options is a big pill to swallow. If I go F250, the next question seems to be gas or diesel. Most research on that just turns into a rant of people justifying what they purchased. With diesel costing 50 cents a gallon more and the $8k upgrade at purchase...it doesn't win the argument hands down.

As far as adjusting my WDH, I've just adjusted it so the trailer is level when hooked up to the TV. Should I do this another way?

I have an 08 Silverado 2500 hd (gas) and a 2013 Koala 26 SS (30ft) weighs 5400 dry (no propane, no water etc and I never run with water or waste ) so say 40 gals propane 160lbs and another 600 lbs of stuff(food -clothing-grill etc and I'm at 6000 -6200 truck pulls right at 10,500.......I bought the Silverado first so I'd know where I was on towing weight and not wanting to pull over 7,000lbs anywhere......I had the same decision....diesel or gas....if you do a what if spreadsheet - and I did - you will see that a break even point is a long way off on recouping the cost of a diesel....initial cost, increased fuel cost, increased maintenance costs all auger to push out a break even point past 8 years....my spreadsheet used my actual Silverado around town daily driving mpg(non-towing) of 14 mpg( I live in the mountains of western north Carolina west of Asheville) and I assumed for arguments sake (as I have heard many diesel folks rave about mileage) a 20 mpg for the diesel, a .50 premium for diesel fuel over gas and an $8000 premium in the cost of the diesel truck and I get over 10 years before the diesel begins to pay back the cost. So, my feeling is if you need a diesel to pull the weight get one but know that you are paying that cost so that you can pull a heavier TT

[APT]

I'll repeast myself. Spend $14 at a CAT scale to understand why you have so much sway over 60mph. Your current stock truck should handle it well.

Or spend $1000 on LT tires, $500 on air bags, $20k to upgrade the truck to 3/4+ ton...

[lbrjet]

I wouldn't buy the F250 because you may need it in the future. Buy it when you need it. Your current truck will perform fine in the mountains of Colorado.

[TurnThePage]

nolra wrote:
I'd add E rated tires and maybe some air bags to help the current trucks stability. May help a lot.

TOTALLY agree. At the very least, some LT tires. You may find all your sway suddenly disappears.

[jaycocreek]

I have a 2012 WhiteHawk Jayco 28’ that is about 5800 dry and I guess may max is around 7000 fully loaded. I currently tow with a 2011 F150 5.0 with HD towing package and drive around 20k miles a year with 5-7k of that towing miles.

We have about the same set up. Mine is a Keystone 30ft bumper to tongue that weighs in about 8,000 lbs or less. My tow vehicle is a 2008 Ford F-150 4x4 Supercrew. Tows it great with plenty of power.I use an equalizer hitch/sway bar and the truck has E rated tires and air bags (because I haul a lot of firewood).. Doesn't sway anymore than with a 2003 Chevy HD 2500.......A fifth wheel will pull much better on the hi way as far as sway goes.

And yes, a 3/4 ton or more is a better fifth wheel tow vehicle but not necessarily better on travel trailers. I have done both and still alternate between a 2003 Chevy HD 2500 and my truck towing and on my trailer and a wood trailer that weighs in at 10k loaded, there is little difference, if any.

[nolra]

I'd add E rated tires and maybe some air bags to help the current trucks stability. May help a lot.

[jaycocreek]

Let's see.. 99% of my driving is not towing.... So the decision was easy to me. My truck pulls my trailer just dandy and it doesn't ride like a lumber wagon empty. The 19 mpg I get empty on the road far surpasses my sons HD 2500.

I ride in a 2003 Chevy HD 2500 all the time and it does not ride like my puny little F-150 nor does it get the gas mileage.... Maybe in the newer HD 2500's it's different, but it isn't in a 2003.