Truck Campers 10 years from now?

[Jeepers92]

Being close to the new year, was just wondering what kind of camper our children might be driving ....

I can see them being much more " Off Grid ", than what we have now. Using newer designed photo cells to charge nickle metal battery packs controlled by an on board central computer system. Think of a battery system 1/2 the size, and 4 times the capacity of our current best spiral batteries.
How about smaller generators running on a fuel cell, also tied to the central computer system. It would automatically sense all power use and charge, making the best choices for you. It would also sense propane usage, auto tune your TV, be your radio, weather station, Co2 monitor,etc...and provide this info to a small touch pad monitor.

Flexible plastic outer bodies with an integrated aluminum frame, 2 or 3 slides, using a hydraulic system. The slides would sealed with accordion silicone seals to reduce leaks. How about the opposing slides to one track for counter balance.

All the outside to inside outlets ( AC, vents, etc.), would be sealed with ridge type aluminum seals requiring no sealant and all accessable from the outside.
The black water system would contain a compaction system, and dry disposal to reduce requirements on the black tank. How about a system to take the gray water and use it to supply the commode?

A water system that would collect rain, dew, exc.

Oh well, enough musing. My spring project is rebuilding the nose on my Fox.

[silversand]

I believe that the RV industry will proceed similar to Sabconsulting's description (specifically whole RV integrated solar skins, and sharing electric vehicle battery capacity with the RV). Billtex has also included some very plausible direction, especially with the new Ford pickup/truck camper factory offering (no hassle, no fuss). Robert Ryan's pointing out the enormous strides made among Australian RV/truck camper manufacturers vis composites is important (Australian RV manufacturers need to market their products World-wide by selling turn-key manufacturing "systems" and expertise, not by exporting "end product" from geographically shipping-disadvantageous Australia).

Now for some future prognostication: petrol-fueled *consumer* vehicles will likely dry up in about 15 years (15 years is three 5-year design cycles; staggered dry-up of petrol-fueled vehicles from country to country), as all consumer vehicles are morphed into electric and other hybrid technologies; the only petrol-fueled vehicles likely to be left on the roads of the World will be commercial (air, road and ocean-going commercial). The RV as we know it will continue to shrink in size, and the only RVs resembling the old dinosaurs will be used product (ever depleting in quantity over time: via attrition). We will experience extremely wildly varying gasoline/kerosene/LP/diesel pricing, going from $1.60 a gallon, to $12 a gallon, to $2 a gallon, to $10 a gallon, to 2.50 a gallon, on a wild roller-coaster ride (as will our global stock markets over the next 20 or more years). This wild fluctuation will instill fear in the consumer confidence furthering petrol-fueled consumer vehicle attrition rates, and steer the vast majority of drivers to electric/and/or hybrid technology vehicles, and the new just-in-time taxi smart-phone services (currently expanding Globally, at a lightning speed).

...we'll live and see! IMO...

Silver-

[Jeepers92]

Great ideas from all. It's interesting to read posts from those who buy and use the product. It's easy to see why the TC must remain so versatile to maintain a market. As we use / modify / repair / replace our units, things we wish were different, should be an inspiration to the manufactures???
Another thing I would like addressed, is the engineering parameter of the basic structure being moved from a "rigid " frame - shell, to a "flexible" design. If you have driven the Al-Can Highway, you know what I mean ??
I thing using more plastic composites, less wood, more digital control, and improving the efficiency and quality control, could well be done using the current price structure.

[RobertRyan]

DiploStrats wrote:
One of the saddest things that I see in the US RV market is the fact that so many of the advanced RV systems are coming from Europe. For example:

-- Cassette toilets
-- Dual Pane windows
-- Advanced heat/AC units.

US RV manufacturers seem very content to continue using old systems like:

I can see a fusion of ideas from Europe, US and Australia(we are having the 2015 RVIA World Congress in Melbourne, Victoria in Feb)
You will definitely see more composites(used a lot in Australia) better more attractive interiors , as an RV is a mobile home. As well, split level air conditioning , LED's, electric awnings,, centrally controlled from anywhere in the RV, much better entertainment and computer systems, CAD cut furniture, brighter and distinctive exterior graphics. As well computer controlled ABS and anti-snaking systems for Travel Trailers.
ALL OF THESE EXIST NOW So need to be adopted on a wider scale

[Golden_HVAC]

69 Avion wrote:
Since I still use a 1969 Avion camper that has been in the family since new, I'm not looking for many changes in the next couple of decades.
When I rebuilt the Avion a couple of years ago, I went with LED lights, a CO monitor, Solar with MPPT controller, better TV/Video and radio. Other than that, the technology isn't much different.
I think the next generation of refrigerators will have high efficiency compressors that run off of batteries that are charged by solar.
I doubt if the campers that are built 10-20 years from now will be any better than the then close to 70 year old Avion.
It is coming up on 50 years old and it is better than when it was new. I think the fourth generation of the family will get to use it.

I agree that there will not be 'huge' changes in camper design.

Yet look what has happened in the past 50 years. Trucks have gone from a 10,000 GVWR in the 1973 F-350 Super Camper Special SRW pickup with 7" longer than normal wheelbase to help with center of gravity (bringing it forward of the rear axle) to now having F-450 and F-550 with 16,000 GVWR and 19,500 GVWR respectively!

Trucks can carry even heavier campers, and some manufactures like Host now have 3 slides, built in 4 KW generator, dual propane tanks come in many camper floorplans! And they are much larger. 4,000 pound campers are not unheard of.

Yet still the heaviest campers might include the "Travel Queen" with it's own tag axle, it looks like someone put a tow dolly on the camper frame, supporting about 2,000 pounds of the overall weight behind the truck rear bumper!

I still like the layout in my 1972 Coachman camper, and have not found a better one. Some with slide outs come close, and have almost as large a bathroom as the 1972 Coachman.

It had a front wet bath, with the forward 3'. On the passenger side was a water heater, sink and shower wand. In the lower section, toilet was curbside, hall was streetside, with raised up section and closet in there, converter and water pump in the bottom. Tank underneath the 8" raised floor (First basement?!) Open the 3' wide closet door, and the hallway to the kitchen was closed. Close the 3 plexiglass orange (not see through) windows, and this gives privacy in the bathroom and cabover queen bed up front.

AS you enter the drivers side (rear wall) door, the dinette (passenger side) is also raised 8" with the black tank under the dinette. No grey water tank. Drivers side raised area (well above the drivers side truck fenders) is weight forward - Refrigerator next to closet, then stove, then sink, and counter by the back door. Propane tank under the counter (access from outside of course). No battery in the camper, so it stayed hooked up to the truck when camping.

Electric jacks (around 1990?) made it simple to unload the camper at a campsite, to give you a off road vehicle, or sightseeing!

So I suspect there will be a lot of changes in both motorhomes and campers, but nothing to drastic.

It was about 5 years ago when they started installing outside kitchens in trailers. A large fold up cover - about 60" wide and 48" tall, to cover the kitchen area, providing rain protection and shade. Usually a small 120 volt bar refrigerator, and sometimes a microwave or small TV set. . .

Many toy haulers have standard or optional water proof speakers mounted outside, so you can tune in outside! In addition to landing lights, and other outside lights.

Good luck!

Fred.

[Golden_HVAC]

Jeepers92 wrote:
Being close to the new year, was just wondering what kind of camper our children might be driving ....

I can see them being much more " Off Grid ", than what we have now. Using newer designed photo cells to charge nickle metal battery packs controlled by an on board central computer system. Think of a battery system 1/2 the size, and 4 times the capacity of our current best spiral batteries.
How about smaller generators running on a fuel cell, also tied to the central computer system. It would automatically sense all power use and charge, making the best choices for you. It would also sense propane usage, auto tune your TV, be your radio, weather station, Co2 monitor,etc...and provide this info to a small touch pad monitor.

Flexible plastic outer bodies with an integrated aluminum frame, 2 or 3 slides, using a hydraulic system. The slides would sealed with accordion silicone seals to reduce leaks. How about the opposing slides to one track for counter balance.

All the outside to inside outlets ( AC, vents, etc.), would be sealed with ridge type aluminum seals requiring no sealant and all accessable from the outside.
The black water system would contain a compaction system, and dry disposal to reduce requirements on the black tank. How about a system to take the gray water and use it to supply the commode?

A water system that would collect rain, dew, exc.

Oh well, enough musing. My spring project is rebuilding the nose on my Fox.

I can see Li-Ion batteries in the next ten years! Yes they are light, and probably going to be in the 400 amp hour range without going over 12" square and 12" tall. Though it might be thin panels, and several of them, with air space to dissipate heat when charging or discharging. There is already a post more than 1 year old of a full timer who was frustrated with the generator run time required by his inverter and all electric refrigerator. Personally I think that his electric refrigerator was drawing to much power, or not working properly, (or low on freon and both) or the wrong brand (Samsung hold up well to inverter power, and use much less power daily). So he had to replace a year old $800 battery pack, so bought a Li-Ion battery pack for a un-disclosed sum of money, and promised to send the factory some test data in real life situations. Thus he got a demonstration battery, hand assembled from several smaller 10 AH batteries to become his new battery pack.

What I am more interested in seeing is larger slide outs! Or perhaps a slide out, where the roof slides in, but the walls do not slide in nearly as far, or at all! We have all seen a roll top desk, why not slide the wall someplace else other then into the passenger compartment? Perhaps you have seen how easy it is to move a cubical at work, and taking out a wall section is fairly easy - why not have a removable wall section? I have a couple of other ideas too- so if you are a manufacture call me!

As for collecting dew and drinking it - the water processor would be expensive, and expensive to keep it working. What is in the Space Lab is drinking the "Dew" - it probably costs well over $10 per gallon of water processed, but it is much less expensive than bringing a new gallon of water to the space station for each person per day.

Someone asked about taking condensation from a A/C unit and using that for drinking water. While it might be fine to add a battery, and collect a gallon or two per month, I would not drink it, as there is dirt from the A/C coils, and other debris in the "Collected water". And I pointed out that the most energy efficient de-humidifiers consume 1 KW of power while taking 5 liters of water from the 80% humid air, or 200 watts per liter. If you pay $0.10 per KW, that is really expensive water. Imagine filling your 50 gallon water tank for 'only $4'. But at 40% RH and 60F, then the dehumidifier would only make about 1-2 liters per KW, or $12 per tank of water.

My 1972 camper came with a brochure for a 'waste disposal system' where the black and grey water is sprayed onto the hot section of exhaust pipe, and it all "Evaporates" into thin air! While it might work to evaporate 10 gallons on a 100 mile drive, it is not really practical, and probably dribbled enough water to make it not work at all. Anyway those systems are not for sale anymore - for some reason.

Probably will see more RV's with 2-3 A/C units (especially in the south) and more will come with 50 amp service than a 30 amp service.

You can already buy a inverter/charger that can sync with the campground grid, and with a 20 amp service, you could in theory run a 15 amp air conditioner, and other items. When the inverter senses output is less than 20 amps, it will slowly charge the battery, so that input never exceeds 20 amps (or user setpoint from 5-30 amps in 5 amp steps) and if the output exceeds 20 amps, the inverter can take power from the battery to make up what extra is required, up to the battery capacity and inverter capacity. Trace made the SW2512 back in 1997 that would do this - up to 2,500 watt capacity, and whatever your batteries or solar could provide!

As for energy efficiency, you will probably see more of the 15,000 Btu air conditioners that only consume the power of the older 13,500 Btu units. You will see much more efficient engines, such as the 3.5L 365 HP Ecoboost engine start to make it into motorhome chassis, and other places. Not this year though. Ford's 3.5L Ecoboost is not on the cab and chassis t-350 this year, but perhaps in the next 2 years it will be offered! And Ford has a copyright on the T-450 and T-550 names, so they will produce larger GVWR chassis sometime - lets hope sooner than later!

Have fun camping!

Fred.

[69_Avion]

Since I still use a 1969 Avion camper that has been in the family since new, I'm not looking for many changes in the next couple of decades.
When I rebuilt the Avion a couple of years ago, I went with LED lights, a CO monitor, Solar with MPPT controller, better TV/Video and radio. Other than that, the technology isn't much different.
I think the next generation of refrigerators will have high efficiency compressors that run off of batteries that are charged by solar.
I doubt if the campers that are built 10-20 years from now will be any better than the then close to 70 year old Avion.
It is coming up on 50 years old and it is better than when it was new. I think the fourth generation of the family will get to use it.

[tonymull]

bcbouy wrote:
i think some people are losing touch with the term "camping"and are trying to bring their house on the road with them.my pop up tc does me and the wife just fine off the grid,and we camp for a whole month evey aug.and every weekend between april and october..i have a small battery to run the waterpump,thats it.yet i have power, water,hot water on demand,shower,an oven,drip coffee pot,toilet,lights,i could go on and on.all i need is the shell and a good bed.as long as they keep improving camping equipment i'm happy.any new technology incorporated into new camper desighns and builds will put an already expensive camper into the stratosphere price wise.when you're talking 50k plus for a tc,maybe its time for a reality check.

I agree. We made a real commitment to cooking over wood as much as possible and spending as much time OUTSIDE as possible....otherwise we'd just stay home. The TC is, to us, just a really nice tent and a place to hide during the rare day when our outdoor strategies are overwhelmed by weather. We rarely turn the stove on, the heat we use for 15 minutes on some mornings, at night we depend on two dogs and some down. Lights, some TV, phone and tablet charging...and my CPAP are easily handled with the battery and solar/gen backup. We keep it simple. I have noted that solar panels are far cheaper than just a few years ago. I got a 80w panel back in 2010 that was stolen out of my shed. I'll replace it this spring with a 100w for half the cost.

[Naio]

sabconsulting wrote:
A very interesting topic. I don't know whether the timeline will be 10, 20 years or more, but I foresee a lot of changes being driven by vehicle changes.

1) Driverless vehicles will be available soon - when this comes about many people's priorities for an everyday car will change - rather than something sporty, people may be very tempted by something they can relax, work, eat, drink, watch TV and sleep in while it drives them around. Why fly cross-country when you can let your car drive as you sleep or work. Hence more vehicles may actually become RVs possibly resulting in major car manufacturers taking interest in producing RVs and being able to bring their substantial resources, sophisticated design facilities and economies of scale to bear.

2) Electric vehicles must have a source of electric energy that makes our puny camper batteries look pathetic. Hence you're future camper may just use the electric supply from your future electric truck (this also applies if your vehicle is hydrogen fuel cell based). Obviously this is not a full solution for RVs that are used detached from their support vehicle.

3) Solar panels are currently a bit of an after-market addition. Yes, some RV manufacturers are starting to add them, but only bolting them on just like an owner would. The breakthrough here would be when the solar cells are built into the fabric of the camper, e.g. moulded into the outer skin of the camper. Every surface might then collect solar energy.

4) The new F150 shows the way things are likely to go in truck design - using modern materials to substantially reduce weight to allow for better fuel mileage and better performance from a smaller engine, plus with less weight comes better handling. This weight reduction would need to be carried forwards to the campers to reap the benefit of the weight reduction in the truck. Possibly a monocoque / clamshell design moulded out of carbon fibre or similar and whose stiffness, like a monocoque car, comes not from using thick materials, but from the shapes the materials are moulded into. This weight saving would also need to be applied to interior fittings.

Steve.

Excellent points, especially #1.

[bcbouy]

i think some people are losing touch with the term "camping"and are trying to bring their house on the road with them.my pop up tc does me and the wife just fine off the grid,and we camp for a whole month evey aug.and every weekend between april and october..i have a small battery to run the waterpump,thats it.yet i have power, water,hot water on demand,shower,an oven,drip coffee pot,toilet,lights,i could go on and on.all i need is the shell and a good bed.as long as they keep improving camping equipment i'm happy.any new technology incorporated into new camper desighns and builds will put an already expensive camper into the stratosphere price wise.when you're talking 50k plus for a tc,maybe its time for a reality check.

[DiploStrat]

OK, I'll play.

One of the saddest things that I see in the US RV market is the fact that so many of the advanced RV systems are coming from Europe. For example:

-- Cassette toilets
-- Dual Pane windows
-- Advanced heat/AC units.

US RV manufacturers seem very content to continue using old systems like:

-- Generators
-- Black tanks
-- Single pane windows
-- Propane fuel (Although is more defensible)

The solar/electrical systems on most US RV's are much smaller that what they could be. I suspect that is because so many US RV owners go from campsite to campsite and expect:

-- Water
-- Power (and even cable TV)
-- Sewage

If you look at campers designed more more remote camping:

Tiger Adventure Vehicles

Earthroamer

GXV

You will note that many of their key systems are European imports. Sad.

[RickW]

What was old will be new again:

Heli-camper

Of course it will come with its own drone to scout out the best campsite,... :C

and 2000 watts of solar,...

and a built-in ATV for further boondocking...

and new accessories from tork"lift"

and, most important, streaming WIFI :B

[sabconsulting]

A very interesting topic. I don't know whether the timeline will be 10, 20 years or more, but I foresee a lot of changes being driven by vehicle changes.

1) Driverless vehicles will be available soon - when this comes about many people's priorities for an everyday car will change - rather than something sporty, people may be very tempted by something they can relax, work, eat, drink, watch TV and sleep in while it drives them around. Why fly cross-country when you can let your car drive as you sleep or work. Hence more vehicles may actually become RVs possibly resulting in major car manufacturers taking interest in producing RVs and being able to bring their substantial resources, sophisticated design facilities and economies of scale to bear.

2) Electric vehicles must have a source of electric energy that makes our puny camper batteries look pathetic. Hence you're future camper may just use the electric supply from your future electric truck (this also applies if your vehicle is hydrogen fuel cell based). Obviously this is not a full solution for RVs that are used detached from their support vehicle.

3) Solar panels are currently a bit of an after-market addition. Yes, some RV manufacturers are starting to add them, but only bolting them on just like an owner would. The breakthrough here would be when the solar cells are built into the fabric of the camper, e.g. moulded into the outer skin of the camper. Every surface might then collect solar energy.

4) The new F150 shows the way things are likely to go in truck design - using modern materials to substantially reduce weight to allow for better fuel mileage and better performance from a smaller engine, plus with less weight comes better handling. This weight reduction would need to be carried forwards to the campers to reap the benefit of the weight reduction in the truck. Possibly a monocoque / clamshell design moulded out of carbon fibre or similar and whose stiffness, like a monocoque car, comes not from using thick materials, but from the shapes the materials are moulded into. This weight saving would also need to be applied to interior fittings.

Steve.

[Bedlam]

I would like to see a carbon fiber shell that is more aerodynamic. Tuck all the environmental systems in the basement and use flush mounted roof vents and side windows.

[valhalla360]

kerry4951 wrote:
The only new changes will come after the Japanese and Germans start making RVs. Then we will finally have Lexus and BMW quality in our TCs.

No sure about the Japanse but a couple year ago, we rented a camper in Germany and RV's were everywhere. Mostly motorhomes but if Germany had some secret solution, we would already have it.

Heck even in the USA, VW camper vans have been around for decades.

The only major change seen in the last 20-30yrs is slide outs and even those have been around for quite a while now.

[jimh406]

I don't think some of the advances mentioned will improve my ability to use an RV of any type or TC. 40 year old RVs seem to be ok with several people as long as they are maintained.