Truck salesmen are idiots

[wayfun]

I've got a new trailer on order, a Laredo 322RL. At 36 ft and 7500 lbs I know it's going to be a stretch for my current tow vehicle, a 6.2L Tahoe. So I had a little time yesterday and stopped by a couple of dealerships to look at trucks.

First I pulled in to a Dodge store to look at Rams. I only need to pull the trailer twice a year for about 200 miles on relatively level terrain (Florida). Once in the fall to put it on our winter lot and again in the spring to put it back in storage. I explained to the salesman what I needed to pull and when I stopped at a 2500 I commented that the truck was huge and I really didn't care to drive something that large as my daily driver. He had an immediate solution, "you could get a 1500. They're not like regular truck engines, it's got a HEMI". I then questioned him about payload and axle ratings and all I got was a glazed look. The 1500 had lower payload ratings than my Tahoe.

So I then went across the street to the Toyota store. A friend had told me how nice the new Tundra was and they could pull 10,000 lbs. The Tundra seemed like a nice truck. I looked at the door sticker and the payload was a little light at about 1300 lbs, again less than my Tahoe. I asked the salesman if they offered an upgraded tow model such as a max tow. To his credit he didn't try to BS me. We went inside to check the literature. He went to the back and came out with some old guy that was their truck specialist. After explaining my purpose he responded that they didn't have a max tow type package. He assured me I wouldn't have a problem because "the Tundra can tow the Space Shuttle". I started to discuss payload and axle limits but stopped. I figured it was a waste of my breath.

No wonder you see overloaded vehicles going down the road. I'll keep looking.

Dennis

[is_it_friday_ye]

I didn't read all the pages, but why don't you pay someone to just move the trailer the two times a year? I would do it if someone asked me, for fuel and a little cash. I don't live in Florida though. That is unless you really want a new truck.

[Cummins12V98]

Majja13 wrote:
Just wondering if only towing twice a year why not just rent a 3/4 or one ton and keep the Tahoe?

I think we have a winner! Good advice.

[Majja13]

Just wondering if only towing twice a year why not just rent a 3/4 or one ton and keep the Tahoe?

[nevadanick]

When i lived in Prescott i went to the Ford dlr and asked what they would sell me a cc dsl 4x4 truck for and all i got was about $55k. I went to the Dodge dlr and asked and the salesman told me 53, xxx.xx. I had told the salesman at the Ford dlr that i cant write a check that says about 55k on it. Guess what i bought and it wasnt because it was less $$

[monkey44]

JALLEN4 wrote:

monkey44 wrote:
ALLEN4 wrote:

As soon as the retail customer starts paying MSRP for the vehicle, puts what they will take for the trade on the windshield, and hands the salesman a credit app when they arrive will be when you will know the real price of the vehicle without asking.
End Quote


That's makes no sense -- the dealer has no use for my credit app because I bring a check - and not everyone finances with the seller.

I tell him exactly what I will take for my trade as soon as I arrive, and carry a KBB (or whatever appraisal service) printout with me ... The ONLY thing I don't know when I get there is the dealers price. And if manufacturers (or the dealer) would put the price ON the vehicle instead of a phantom MSRP sticker, and every dealer sold every vehicle for that price, we'd have less hassle, and less "wasted time" both for dealers, salesmen, AND buyers.

Hiding the price is the single most time-wasting event in truck selling. PERIOD.

Like I said, if a salesman would tell us the price he's willing (or required) to sell the truck sitting right there in front of me for when I ask it, we'd not need to have this forum discussion at all. The easiest question we ask, and the most elusive answer is always PRICE OF THIS TRUCK, this one, right sitting on these tires and on your lot.

AND, for a $30k-$40k purchase, it's even MORE important than it is a can of peas to know the price of what you're buying. It always seems 'tricky or crooked' or even unethical when any seller of any product refuses to disclose a price at any time the buyer asks - it simply reeks of manipulation.

When we were looking at a Ford, I'd been emailing and phone-talking to the salesman about a week or so (three of four times, total). He absolutely refused to give a price on the truck ... He kept asking me, "Are you going to buy it?" and I kept asking him the price. He never gave us a price, even sitting in his office after taking a test drive -- and we finally walked out and tried another dealer. Ended up with the Chevy ...

First, there is a legitimate price on every truck that you are free to inspect. It is legitimate and is the manufacturers suggested retail price. Because you refuse to accept its validity or because in most instances you can buy for less makes it no less a real price. What price would you rather have posted and would you pay that price without question? Of course not. Even Saturn with their "one price" system negotiated and ultimately failed. Only a fool would put one price on the vehicle and watch the customer walk because he wanted the vehicle for ten dollars less. With that, where does it stop. There are 20,000 new car dealers in this country and not a single one of them has a price on every vehicle they own that they would never go below. Pricing is too complicated and there are too many variables that can change daily.

Second, there are dozens of on-line sources that will tell you what your used vehicle is worth and not one of them will buy it sight unseen for that price. Had there been, I would not have had to pay a used car manager six figures yearly to appraise my trades as I could have simply hired a high school kid who could read. As an experiment, I have watched ten professional managers from ten different stores appraise the same car at the same time and come up with numbers that varied as much as two thousand dollars. At the end of the day, the owner of that car would have argued that all ten were wrong anyway as he once saw one advertised three- thousand miles away for more. Another reason the dealer does not have a fixed price.

Third, by far, the majority of people do not carry a check book to buy their car. Unfortunately, your several million dollar investment in a dealership is not run for the less than 10% of people who actually might pay cash. You run it based on the vast majority of people who buy and expect the dealer to arrange financing. Those with better credit will eventually get an overall better deal and those with lesser credit pay more because their past performance shows they are a higher risk.

Fourth, everyone says to never tell the dealer what kind of payment you want. In reality, 99% of the people buy based on a payment whether they finance or pay cash which is one payment. Most everyone has a limit they cannot exceed but you would be amazed how many people cannot grasp what payments should be. I have watched thousands of consumers look at fifty-thousand dollar vehicles knowing they have a thousand dollars down and can't possibly pay more than $350 per month.

Car and truck prices have been negotiated for more than a hundred years and most likely will be negotiated for the next hundred. Get over it! You aren't ever going to walk into a dealership where the lowest possibwindshields posted on the windsheild. One that you can't beat anywhere. Just ain't gonna happen!

YOU just proved my case -- We Must go in and see truck and find out pricing (financing when appropriate) -- With your own proof in mind, we walk in and shop, truly shop around, and when we get a price and a truck we want, we sign and fork over the money.

My issue was with the false claim "Customers waste the salesman time" -- while in fact,if they don't come to terms, both are wasting time for the other -- getting a price on a truck is like pulling teeth with tweezers.

We just did it, and we bought a truck from the FIRST salesman that gave me a price THE FIRST time we asked him, AND a the trade value of my truck we asked for during our FIRST email contact.

Salesman that beat around the bush, and fail to disclose info a buyer needs to close the deal will claim the customer waste the time -- BS ... the salesman that hide the info has NO one to blame but himself if he fails to close a deal. We arrive (most of us) truly ready to lay out the money, it's the song and dance that takes the time, and the salesman is in charge of that --

Salesman :: Tell me the price -- (You always claim it's the lowest)
AND in actual fact: Had a Ford salesman tell me a price (after the pull teeth session) and we were still debating on Chevy and Ford ... so, were comparing price VS ride, and options, and already took the test drive (we were serious) ... He insisted it was his absolute Best Lowest Price. So, we went to drive another truck to compare ... and in fact, we don't shop price specifically - but value, ride, comfort, power etc ... price is secondary, but of course, we eventually need that number -- So, within two hours of walking out, the FORD guys sends me an email "If you buy it today, we'll give you another $1000 off. (That's off the lowest possible price he can give) ... so what does that tell you? About truth ...

Then, he later added a, ADDITIONAL $700 "dealer prep fee", for what he called, 'non producers' in the dealership, which is "office workers" -- First, that's part of the overhead, second an insult to call office work 'non-producers' ... it's like charging a "rent fee' a paving fee' a 'roof and building' fee ... ridiculous.

In fact too, we bought a truck that was $4000 more than the Ford ... because we liked it better.

Allow me the courtesy of shopping that price (and other brands), if I choose to do it. It's my $40K, and you want to earn it, not just pick it up off the table.

AND,if you are true in price (like you claim), then you get a sale, if you aren't, then you don't. But hiding the price for as long as possible to "wear down the buyer" makes no good business sense ...

BTW:: Price Fixed sales is not the reason Saturn folded ... it's actually not even relevant.

[Targa]

The only ones I would call an idiot are the consumer's that don't arm themselves with knowledge about this huge purchase they will be making. I know everything about the vehicle I need to know before I ever walk in. I need the salesman for a hopefully smooth sale, thats it.

[JALLEN4]

monkey44 wrote:
ALLEN4 wrote:

As soon as the retail customer starts paying MSRP for the vehicle, puts what they will take for the trade on the windshield, and hands the salesman a credit app when they arrive will be when you will know the real price of the vehicle without asking.
End Quote


That's makes no sense -- the dealer has no use for my credit app because I bring a check - and not everyone finances with the seller.

I tell him exactly what I will take for my trade as soon as I arrive, and carry a KBB (or whatever appraisal service) printout with me ... The ONLY thing I don't know when I get there is the dealers price. And if manufacturers (or the dealer) would put the price ON the vehicle instead of a phantom MSRP sticker, and every dealer sold every vehicle for that price, we'd have less hassle, and less "wasted time" both for dealers, salesmen, AND buyers.

Hiding the price is the single most time-wasting event in truck selling. PERIOD.

Like I said, if a salesman would tell us the price he's willing (or required) to sell the truck sitting right there in front of me for when I ask it, we'd not need to have this forum discussion at all. The easiest question we ask, and the most elusive answer is always PRICE OF THIS TRUCK, this one, right sitting on these tires and on your lot.

AND, for a $30k-$40k purchase, it's even MORE important than it is a can of peas to know the price of what you're buying. It always seems 'tricky or crooked' or even unethical when any seller of any product refuses to disclose a price at any time the buyer asks - it simply reeks of manipulation.

When we were looking at a Ford, I'd been emailing and phone-talking to the salesman about a week or so (three of four times, total). He absolutely refused to give a price on the truck ... He kept asking me, "Are you going to buy it?" and I kept asking him the price. He never gave us a price, even sitting in his office after taking a test drive -- and we finally walked out and tried another dealer. Ended up with the Chevy ...

First, there is a legitimate price on every truck that you are free to inspect. It is legitimate and is the manufacturers suggested retail price. Because you refuse to accept its validity or because in most instances you can buy for less makes it no less a real price. What price would you rather have posted and would you pay that price without question? Of course not. Even Saturn with their "one price" system negotiated and ultimately failed. Only a fool would put one price on the vehicle and watch the customer walk because he wanted the vehicle for ten dollars less. With that, where does it stop. There are 20,000 new car dealers in this country and not a single one of them has a price on every vehicle they own that they would never go below. Pricing is too complicated and there are too many variables that can change daily.

Second, there are dozens of on-line sources that will tell you what your used vehicle is worth and not one of them will buy it sight unseen for that price. Had there been, I would not have had to pay a used car manager six figures yearly to appraise my trades as I could have simply hired a high school kid who could read. As an experiment, I have watched ten professional managers from ten different stores appraise the same car at the same time and come up with numbers that varied as much as two thousand dollars. At the end of the day, the owner of that car would have argued that all ten were wrong anyway as he once saw one advertised three- thousand miles away for more. Another reason the dealer does not have a fixed price.

Third, by far, the majority of people do not carry a check book to buy their car. Unfortunately, your several million dollar investment in a dealership is not run for the less than 10% of people who actually might pay cash. You run it based on the vast majority of people who buy and expect the dealer to arrange financing. Those with better credit will eventually get an overall better deal and those with lesser credit pay more because their past performance shows they are a higher risk.

Fourth, everyone says to never tell the dealer what kind of payment you want. In reality, 99% of the people buy based on a payment whether they finance or pay cash which is one payment. Most everyone has a limit they cannot exceed but you would be amazed how many people cannot grasp what payments should be. I have watched thousands of consumers look at fifty-thousand dollar vehicles knowing they have a thousand dollars down and can't possibly pay more than $350 per month.

Car and truck prices have been negotiated for more than a hundred years and most likely will be negotiated for the next hundred. Get over it! You aren't ever going to walk into a dealership where the lowest possibwindshields posted on the windsheild. One that you can't beat anywhere. Just ain't gonna happen!

[Turtle_n_Peeps]

When we were looking at a Ford, I'd been emailing and phone-talking to the salesman about a week or so (three of four times, total). He absolutely refused to give a price on the truck ... He kept asking me, "Are you going to buy it?" and I kept asking him the price. He never gave us a price, even sitting in his office after taking a test drive -- and we finally walked out and tried another dealer. Ended up with the Chevy ...

The dude quit and went to work for my Chevy dealer. :S

I went to my dealer and said I'm going to buy a truck today. Sales man said we can do that; what have you got to trade in? No trade in, I just want to buy a truck today. Ok, lets talk finance. No finance, I have a checkbook and want to buy a truck today.

What is the price of the truck we are talking about? Well sir the sticker is 42K. Yes I know that Mr sales man, but what is the best you can do today so I can drive home in a new truck today. 42K is the best I can do sir. :S

Quit $@^&ing around. I haven't got time to %@$*& around. Now, give me a fair price and I will write you a check, done deal, I'm a sure thing dude. 42K is it sir.

Later, I'm out of here; as the guy watched me walk out of the door.

Called a friend who set me up with an old gray hair sales man. I told him the same thing as the other guy. He said, cool lets get you in a new truck today. What is the best price you can give me? 37K. (which was a fair buy at the time. Not a smoking deal, but I was not looking for a smoking deal, just a fair price.)

Cool, who do I write the check out to.................:) I drove home in a new LBZ Chevy.

It really was that simple, and the gray hair got it...........the other guy.....:R

[monkey44]

ALLEN4 wrote:

As soon as the retail customer starts paying MSRP for the vehicle, puts what they will take for the trade on the windshield, and hands the salesman a credit app when they arrive will be when you will know the real price of the vehicle without asking.
End Quote


That's makes no sense -- the dealer has no use for my credit app because I bring a check - and not everyone finances with the seller.

I tell him exactly what I will take for my trade as soon as I arrive, and carry a KBB (or whatever appraisal service) printout with me ... The ONLY thing I don't know when I get there is the dealers price. And if manufacturers (or the dealer) would put the price ON the vehicle instead of a phantom MSRP sticker, and every dealer sold every vehicle for that price, we'd have less hassle, and less "wasted time" both for dealers, salesmen, AND buyers.

Hiding the price is the single most time-wasting event in truck selling. PERIOD.

Like I said, if a salesman would tell us the price he's willing (or required) to sell the truck sitting right there in front of me for when I ask it, we'd not need to have this forum discussion at all. The easiest question we ask, and the most elusive answer is always PRICE OF THIS TRUCK, this one, right sitting on these tires and on your lot.

AND, for a $30k-$40k purchase, it's even MORE important than it is a can of peas to know the price of what you're buying. It always seems 'tricky or crooked' or even unethical when any seller of any product refuses to disclose a price at any time the buyer asks - it simply reeks of manipulation.

When we were looking at a Ford, I'd been emailing and phone-talking to the salesman about a week or so (three of four times, total). He absolutely refused to give a price on the truck ... He kept asking me, "Are you going to buy it?" and I kept asking him the price. He never gave us a price, even sitting in his office after taking a test drive -- and we finally walked out and tried another dealer. Ended up with the Chevy ...

[Fast_Mopar]

BigToe wrote:

Many people who sell cars do so as a last resort. Their situation is already desperate. They cannot afford a single one of the cars or trucks that you know so much about. They may be struggling through a career transition, when their manufacturing job got outsourced overseas. They may have returned home from 10 years as a combat soldier, without a college degree or any work experience in a civilian trade. They may have earned a doctorate degree in the Ukraine, and are here to escape the conflict. They may have raised a family as a stay at home parent, and through a sudden divorce after the kids are grown, find themselves needing to earn a living in a world that passed them by while they were attending to their children. They may speak 5 languages. They may have traveled the world. They have have done anything. Or nothing. But they are human beings.

Well stated. And, at least they are working instead of sitting around collecting government checks.

Most salespeople I have encountered are not familiar with their product, but that's OK because I am familiar with their product. But, the knowledge of the salesperson should not cause someone to choose a different brand. That makes no sense. If someone really wants a Cadillac CTS-V but the salesman at the Kia store really knows the product details on the Kia Rio, I guess you'd better just go buy the Kia ?!?!?

[spoon059]

BigToe wrote:
Their dealership may have the policy of whoever greets the customer first gets the customer, and therefor gets the commission (or part of it) if the customer buys.

[sarcasm font] First of all, how dare you use common sense on this forum and pretend that some of the posters here aren't the center of the universe...[/sarcasm font] These people have jobs to do, just like anyone else. I am sure these people that like to play games with salesmen would be infuriated if someone came to their place of work (or previous place of work if retired...) and acted this way to them.

Second of all, I agree with you 100%. I worked in commission sales in college. I wasn't very good at it because I refused to harass customers and sell them something they didn't need or want. I got a higher commission if I sold brand X than if I sold brand Y. I was encouraged to sell brand X (because the higher my commission, the higher the managers quarterly bonus became). I refused to oversell people. If we didn't have what they needed in stock, I would notify the customer if another local store had the product. That was highly discouraged, because if our store didn't post the sale, my manager didn't get the bonus. I didn't like the job, I quit after a year. I made decent money but hated going to work.

Third, this is why if I go to a lot to look at cars while doing research I quickly explain to the salesman that we are NOT buying today. I ask for his card and tell him that I will find him, and only him, if I have questions. Generally I find that they will leave me alone if I do that. It also doesn't hurt that I have a job that allows me to go look at cars around 9 or 10 in the morning in the middle of the week. Usually only 1 or 2 salesmen on the floor at that hour and very few customers. They are less aggressive at those hours.

[Community Alumni]

When we were shopping we would do the same thing. When the first person approached us, we would ask for their business card. We would then ask them to write their cell phone number on the back. We would tell them to not bother us and when we found a truck we were interested in we would call. Most listened. When other salesmen would approach us, we'd just whip out that card and they'd quickly leave. If we didn't see anything we liked then we could quickly and quietly leave without them noticing.

Last time we bought, I didn't even need a test drive. I knew exactly what I wanted and didn't want in a truck. I already rented one before so I knew how they rode. I just needed to pick a color. As long as it fired up on the first crank and sounded good, it was good enough for me. There's nothing you're going to find out about a truck these days with a 5 minute test drive on a cold engine. Anything goes wrong there's a warranty. The sales manager found out we were ready to deal but hadn't taken a test drive yet. He begged us to take one. When I say begged I mean begged. I really didn't want to waste the time. When I refused, he started offering money off. First it was $250, then $500, then $1000. The wife jumped in at that point, put her hand over my mouth, and said we'll take the test drive. Probably could've got more out of him if the wife hadn't jumped in lol. The test drive is just an opportunity to talk you into the vehicle. It's a chance for the salesman to size you up and figure out how much they can get out of you. They want to get you attached to a specific vehicle to make it harder for you to walk away. They want you thinking about yourself in that new vehicle while they toss numbers at you.

[camping_man]

One week it's do you want fries with that burger, next week it's do you want the XL, or the XLT package with that truck. We're not talking geniuses here.

[JALLEN4]

BigToe wrote:

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

Consider the sales person's point of view...

Their dealership may have the policy of whoever greets the customer first gets the customer, and therefor gets the commission (or part of it) if the customer buys.

Hence the "pouncing" as soon as you arrive. Their haste to help you might be because they are literally competing with every other salesman on that lot in the first few seconds of your arrival. They are not racing toward you for how attractive you are. They are racing each other for the opportunity to earn a tiny token to help feed their family that night.

So after you tell them you are just looking, they still stick around. Why? Because their sales manager decreed that if they DON"T stick with you, then you are fair game for another sales person to take over, and they lose out, even though they were the first to greet you. So they follow you, and even when you ask them to leave you to "think" or to talk it over with your spouse in private, they move a certain distance away, but they still hover. They HAVE to, because either they will lose their commission, or lose their job. Often times both.

Imagine if you had to work under those circumstances?

Do you think they grew up dreaming of being a car salesman? Do you think they harbored career aspirations to cater to online expert know it alls who act like jerks to them? Do you think they can't wait for another day to play brake light reverse light games with insensitive adults, training their children to be just as insensitive, who feel free to fart around on the private property of an employer who demands that every customer who enters the lot be catered to?

Many people who sell cars do so as a last resort. Their situation is already desperate. They cannot afford a single one of the cars or trucks that you know so much about. They may be struggling through a career transition, when their manufacturing job got outsourced overseas. They may have returned home from 10 years as a combat soldier, without a college degree or any work experience in a civilian trade. They may have earned a doctorate degree in the Ukraine, and are here to escape the conflict. They may have raised a family as a stay at home parent, and through a sudden divorce after the kids are grown, find themselves needing to earn a living in a world that passed them by while they were attending to their children. They may speak 5 languages. They may have traveled the world. They have have done anything. Or nothing. But they are human beings.

Treat them like it. They might surprise you, and treat you like a human being also.

Treat them like "idiots", and, well, you might already have experienced what to expect.

There are so many misconceptions of what happens in a dealership. Some are fairly accurate and others so far afield as to be laughable. Yes, for some being a salesman is a "last resort" but for many it is a rational choice and even others do dream of being a a car salesman.

Any large dealership will have several people approaching six figures and many others far exceeding that figure. Many employees are highly professional, well educated, and well respected in their community. Most all dealership owners started on the sales floor as the "idiot" and ultimately became multi-millionaires and there are several who appear on the list of the world's billionaires.

For every complaint you read about the "hovering" salesman you can read another about shopping in a dealership where nobody would offer to assist them. As a dealer, you spend a vast amount of money in an attempt to attract the consumer. You build an attractive and expensive facility, advertise, stock it with expensive merchandise, and contrary to popular opinion, spend heavily to train your people. When your investment does produce a possible consumer, you certainly do not want that person wandering around your facility unattended.