Unbraked trailer, towing limitations

[tealboy]

Hey folks, I’m looking for a new tow vehicle for a rig coming in at 2700 lbs, loaded, per the scale. I decided to trade down to a more modest unibody suv like the highlander, telluride or similar with tow ratings of 5000 lbs.vs my customary Tahoe or sequoia since I tow infrequently (3-4x/year).

However, I discovered something I was unaware of, these vehicles often come with a 1000lb limit when trailers are “Unbraked”. My trailer does not have brakes, seems many in this lower weight class don’t, though some do. My state law requires brakes at 3000lbs.

This discovery caused me to to rethink the mid size suv and go back to the sequoia or a Tahoe. I was shocked to realize the big sequoia with 7500 lbs tow rating is also limited to 1000 lbs Unbraked. The Tahoe is 2000 lbs. The gm line of 1500 series pickups also 2k.

Wow. It seems the manufacturers are providing very conservative figures for Unbraked trailers due to liability so no matter what I pick outside of a 2500 series, I am out of compliance with manufactures recommendations/requirements and potentially subject to liability in an accident even though I’m within state law.

I know this group is far more informed than average people relative to towing but I see tons of smaller to mid size trailers like mine, including many boats, without brakes and suspect most are totally unknowing of these low thresholds bc the manufactures brag about high tow ratings but you need to look much deeper for the Unbraked limits .

I’m not sure what to do now. Thoughts on the subject and your awareness of these vehicle limitations?

[Me_Again]

blt2ski wrote:
Mkirsh,
Thank you
I think I'm going to find something similar if I follow links in RCW46 re single axle unladen trailers under 2000 lbs. But max gvw will be 4500 per my memory last I looked, or 3000 per e-trailer link Chris gave a page or two ago. With like Canadian laws, 40% max of TV vehicle down to a minimum of 1000 lbs of trailer gvw.
As I understand it, a mini Cooper with a 4k gvw, would get a max unbraked at 1600 lbs, over that they need brakes! Tealboy's situation, at 2600 trailer gvw, SUV at 6000, has max unbraked at 2400, his trailer would require brakes here in WA st.even if trailer is less than 2000 tare. If tealboy's trailer is over 2000 tare, he requires brakes no matter his trailers gvw. Chris is in same issue towing his sand buggy with explorer, but probably legal unbraked with F150. As that trailer probably wieghs 500 lbs plus or minus 100 lbs. I'm swag'ing Chris's trailer at 2500-2800 loaded with sand buggy.

I need to follow links to the other parts of my states "Revised Codes of Washington" RCW laws to get a better reference.

I would like to believe, anyone following this, should be getting a better reference point as to when brakes are required for Single Axle trailers, vs not, vs when common sense says have brakes on the trailer.

Marty

The Primo 6x12 trailer has a manufacturer's weight of 700 lbs. KRX SxS is heavy, trailer loaded weight is 3080. Aluminum F150 only weighs 300 more than Edge ST. The Edge ST with the twin turbo 2.7L V6 and Ford Performance suspension handled the trailer very well with the Can Am Spyder at around 22-2300 lbs.

[blt2ski]

Mkirsh
It's probably like here. You find the initial part, then need to follow links to parts that clarify things within laws/statutes etc that pertain to those items.
For me I start in RCW46. But need to go to 3-4 other RCW's to see the when, where and how it is effected.
Hence how I can see the potential for a SA trailer needing brakes for a smaller vehicle, larger not needing them. Which to a degree, is what many have stated.

Marty

[mkirsch]

Marty,

Only thing is I can't find ACTUAL law stating this. That's just a "summary document" which is supposed to be derived from the actual law.

I'm thinking it should be in NY State Title 15 but I can't find anything that says anything about 3000lbs.

[blt2ski]

Mkirsh,
Thank you
I think I'm going to find something similar if I follow links in RCW46 re single axle unladen trailers under 2000 lbs. But max gvw will be 4500 per my memory last I looked, or 3000 per e-trailer link Chris gave a page or two ago. With like Canadian laws, 40% max of TV vehicle down to a minimum of 1000 lbs of trailer gvw.
As I understand it, a mini Cooper with a 4k gvw, would get a max unbraked at 1600 lbs, over that they need brakes! Tealboy's situation, at 2600 trailer gvw, SUV at 6000, has max unbraked at 2400, his trailer would require brakes here in WA st.even if trailer is less than 2000 tare. If tealboy's trailer is over 2000 tare, he requires brakes no matter his trailers gvw. Chris is in same issue towing his sand buggy with explorer, but probably legal unbraked with F150. As that trailer probably wieghs 500 lbs plus or minus 100 lbs. I'm swag'ing Chris's trailer at 2500-2800 loaded with sand buggy.

I need to follow links to the other parts of my states "Revised Codes of Washington" RCW laws to get a better reference.

I would like to believe, anyone following this, should be getting a better reference point as to when brakes are required for Single Axle trailers, vs not, vs when common sense says have brakes on the trailer.

Marty

[mkirsch]

Marty, you want a cite? Here's one for NY state:

https://dmv.ny.gov/forms/mv529c.pdf

You'll have to go and read it for exact verbiage but at the bottom it states that any trailer over 1000lbs unladen weight and over 3000lbs gross weight must have trailer brakes. The PDF is "secured" and does not allow cut-n-paste.

[StirCrazy]

Fisherman wrote:
Marty

and to add to the confusion for a dealer to sell a trailer in canada if it has a GVW over 2000lbs then it must be sold with break away trailer brakes. this insures all trailers sold in canada met the most strict of provincial requirments.

If you look at the individual provincial requirements, it's still around 3000lbs in some provinces. I just spoke to a trailer shop and when I mentioned BC, his eyes rolled back so far...enough said.

bc is in the middle of all the provences so I don't know why he would roll his eyes. what I was talking about here is the federal sails requirment. if you look you won't find a 2000lb rated trailer sold in canada that doesnt have trailer brakes. unless its old as heck or a home built . you will see lots of 1990lbs trailers out there with out them though haha

here are the actual provincial numbers


Alberta - If gross laden weight of trailer is 909 kg / 2,004 Ibs or over, or if gross trailer weight is over half that of the unit, independent braking system is required.
Not required for trailers with a gross laden weight of not more than 910 kg (2006 Ibs) or trailers with a gross laden weight of less than half of the weight of the towing unit.
Breakaway brakes are required on trailers over 907 kg (2,000 Ibs).

BC - Gross trailer weight of 1,400 kg (3,080 Ibs) or less – Brakes are required if the trailer and its load weigh more than 50% of the licensed weight of the vehicle towing it.
Gross trailer weight of 1,401 kg (3,081 Ibs) to 2,800 kg (6,160 Ibs) – Brakes are required, including a breakaway brake.

Saskatchewan - Any trailer towed behind a motor vehicle with a Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 1,360 kg (2,999 Ibs) and greater, requires brakes on all axles with a break-away system that will apply the brakes of the trailer in the event it breaks away from the towed vehicle.

Manitoba - every trailer that is attached to a motor vehicle and that has a gross weight in excess of 910 kg (2,006 Ibs), when upon a highway shall be equipped with brakes adequate, when operated in combination with the brakes of the motor vehicle to which it is attached, to stop and hold the motor vehicle and trailer, as the case may be, within the distances prescribed by the law (subsection 8).
Breakaway brakes are required on trailers 907 kg (2,000 Ibs) and over.

Ontario - Trailer or semi-trailer - Every trailer or semi-trailer having a gross weight of 1,360 kilograms (3,000 Ibs) or more shall be equipped with brakes adequate to stop and to hold the vehicle.

Quebec - Independent braking system is required in each weight bearing wheel where gross weight exceeds 1,300 kg (2,867 Ibs). Breakaway brakes are required on all trailers 1,360 kg (3,000 Ibs) and over.

New Brunswick - Independent braking system required where gross weight exceeds 1.5 tons or 1,500 kg (3,308 Ibs).

Nova Scotia - Independent braking system required where gross weight of load and vehicle exceeds 1,800 kg (3,969 Ibs). Breakaway brakes are required on all trailers with a registered weight of over 1,350 kg (2,977 Ibs).

Prince Edward Island - Independent braking system where gross weight exceeds 1,500 kg (3,308) lbs.

Newfoundland / Labrador - Independent braking system needed where gross weight exceeds 4,500 kg (9,923 lbs) or two or more axles are used on the trailer.

Yukon Territory - Independent braking system required if gross weight exceeds 910 kg (2,007 lbs) or one-half of the licensed weight of towing vehicle.

Northwest Territories - Brakes required if gross laden weight of trailer is 1,360 kg (2,999 lbs) or over, or if gross laden weight of trailer exceeds 50% of gross laden weight of towing vehicle.

[blt2ski]

Mike134 wrote:
What percent of people towing do you think drill down like this forum? 1%?

I'll do like the other 99% hookup and go!!! I'll worry about stopping later.

Mike,

Most of us probably started out that way. Somewhere along the line a white knuckle omg moment comes about for whatever reason shape or form. Or you get the perverbial, I could have had a V8 moment!
For me with one rig, BB V8 dually 1 ton couldn't go up a hill.....geared too tall in transmission, as I blew up transmission at 30k miles, every 30k like clockwork after.
Another, surge brake trailer pushed me thru an intersection.
Rear ending someone at slow speed with a single axle non braked trailer in that DW 1ton full loaded at gvwr. Brakes while good, weren't that good!

No I'm not a out wd sway bar person! If I can't pull a trailer in a straight line at 60-65 mpg, I have other issues that need fixing before adding band aids on it.

We ALL have had learning curves. Some get very conservative about what they recommend, some say go for it no matter, others, hopefully I'm in this catagory, I know it will work, legal etc, but at the end of the day, the right thing is_______.
Hence why I've mentioned the last few days, I'd like to find out the citation/definition of when single axle trailers need brakes. I'm a bit like tealboy, I don't always trust the politicians to make the rules correct ALL the time. Just as I've found, I don't trust gvwr ratings the manufactures out on light duty pickups to work for my type of driving.

Marty

[Grit_dog]

Mike134 wrote:
What percent of people towing do you think drill down like this forum? 1%?

I'll do like the other 99% hookup and go!!! I'll worry about stopping later.

Judging by the number of wdhs on campers being pulled by 3/4 or 1 ton trucks that don't need them, I'd say the % that drink this koolaid is quite high, although the ones that get this OCD and/or twitterpated about it is hopefully very low.
God forbid if this forum is a representative sample of the average camper I pass while doing 80mph with no wdh in the brodozer, while they're strapped to the 9s with every possible gadget and gizmo on their rig and still white knucklin it like they're Dorothy headed into the tornado!

PS, I'm from Grayslake, IL.

[Mike134]

What percent of people towing do you think drill down like this forum? 1%?

I'll do like the other 99% hookup and go!!! I'll worry about stopping later.

[blt2ski]

Fisherman wrote:
Marty

and to add to the confusion for a dealer to sell a trailer in canada if it has a GVW over 2000lbs then it must be sold with break away trailer brakes. this insures all trailers sold in canada met the most strict of provincial requirments.

If you look at the individual provincial requirements, it's still around 3000lbs in some provinces. I just spoke to a trailer shop and when I mentioned BC, his eyes rolled back so far...enough said.

I've seen plenty of canadians comment about BC, I've read a sorta kinda how they enforce Canadian gvw laws.....

I spent a few minutes before a sailboat race race last night trying to read WA laws re vehicles wieghts etc, could not find a how that gvw number is defined. I did find a citation for single axle under 2000 lbs unladen. Nothing to do say or add to the OPs question.

In many cases it can be a **** shoot if your legal or not from one jurisdiction to another. You could be close enough an leo says on your way, to far enough you get a ticket or worst, red tag do not operate vehicle as assembled on the road.

Marty

[Grit_dog]

If this is confusing, I'd hate to see how some deal with actual issues...lol.

[Fisherman]

Marty
and to add to the confusion for a dealer to sell a trailer in canada if it has a GVW over 2000lbs then it must be sold with break away trailer brakes. this insures all trailers sold in canada met the most strict of provincial requirments.

If you look at the individual provincial requirements, it's still around 3000lbs in some provinces. I just spoke to a trailer shop and when I mentioned BC, his eyes rolled back so far...enough said.

[blt2ski]

Chris,
There are some funky rules for tankers, buses, cement rigs etc. I've not paid alot of attention to those issues, as I don't drive those kinds of rigs. I've only paid attention and have tried to learn the if you have a class 1-6 truck, pulling an electric or hydraulic surge brakes. How field tests are performed, etc. Its been VERY clear from every LEO/CVEO tve known, talked too, or taken some classes with, everyone has to follow the same basic rules if I've 10k licensed, or pulling a trailer.
Washington appears to be like BC, they have folks assigned to scale houses, also have field folks pulling over rigs outside. There were two fellows I would see outside a gravel pit frequently. Granted getting dump trucks......I did see other rigs getting pulled over that were suspect.
City of Seattle sets up commercial enforcement at the ports where containers come in and out. If they find burned out bulbs, guess who's selling you the working bulbs in order to get back on the road? They have the equal to a SnapOn tool truck filled with common misc wrong things on trucks.
Still would like to see a definition of how the braking on trailers gvw is figured out. So far pure guess on anyone's part. Including mine.

Marty

[Me_Again]

blt2ski wrote:
Scooby,

As I understand Federal Bridge Laws for max weights. Everyone, commercial, personal use per say gets 20k per axel. BUT, you can get limited in weight by the lack of distance between them. 0 to x' is 17k per, x to y' is 18500, over y' you get the full 20k. A 2nd enforced here in WA st, not in Illinois per past comments from wadcutter, is lbs per inch width of tire. Minimum is 500 lbs per inch. A state can allow more. BUT you pull across a state line that goes with a lower amount, you get taxed/fined for being overwieght. Here if unit has duals, you get 600, singles 500 per inch.
Bus chassis and MH based on bus chassis, tank trucks trailers can get up to iirc 24k. NOT ALL MH get 24k.
My 1500 could go as high as 22000 gvw if I've paid that amount. BUT, now the local LEO/CVEO can get me for other issues not included in the federal bridge laws from a max wieght perspective. Can I stop my truck per field test in appropriate distance at iirc 20mph. I'll fail, I'm no longer allowed on the road until I meet spec.
Issue I see going back to initial post, is WHAT definition does a given state law for said trailer weight needing brakes? WA is an RCWxx, x being a number, RCW46 appears to be general catch all for speed wieghts, lighting etc for this.
If they use say tire width per FBL, OP and Chris probably have typical 155-185mm width tires, so 6-7". That's 3000-3500 ea, max allowed per axle 6000-7000 lbs. If a state has 3000 lbs, appears to be general max for brakes, if you have tires wider than 3"x2, you would be required to have brakes on the trailer. Or if by some fat chance of a very small percentage, they use manufacture spec, tire sidewall amount, the bar IMHO is going to be harder to hit. As most of the tires on smaller trailers like this are less than 1500-2000 lbs per tire. I had a 155-13 that was around 800-900 lbs per tire.
I know that while I would be legal with two trailers shown talked about here in WA st, I would not want 3000 lbs of unbraked trailer pushing me down some of the local 15-20% grades trying or hoping to stop. Or emergency stop at 60mph with a 15 series rig, with a all load, total 2000 over it's factory gvwr.
Marty

I thought tandem duals were limited to 36K in Washington. I could not carry a full 80K load in my tanker because the distance from my drivers to the trailer axles was shorter than the requirement. So trips out of town had me one compartment empty and at 72K. Big chevy truck!