Wanting to use trailer for weekend trips during the winter

[jbrowning]

Hello all, here is a diagram of where my water tanks are located on my trailer. The fresh water tank is inside the trailer and the plumbing going back to the bathroom and kitchen sink is all on the inside of the trailer. What is exposed is the front panel of the hot water tank, gray tank, black tank and drain valve at the back of the trailer just under the back bumper.

What I'm wanting to do is do some winter camping on the weekends where the lows are in the teens or twenties. I am thinking of making some plywood skirting with styrofoam sheets attached to them. I am planning on leaving about 1-2 inches overlap of plywood onto the body of the trailer. I am thinking of using a hook and eyelet thing to attach the plywood pieces together to secure them. This will go all the way around the trailer to enclose the bottom of it.

For where the gray and black tanks and drain valve is exposed I am thinking of getting two heating lamps and place them around these two tanks to keep them and the drain valve from freezing. I am hoping to get these on the inside of the skirting to help keep them warm.

I do have a couple of questions. My water pump is on the inside close by the fresh water tank. I am thinking about putting a little lamp in there to keep it warmed up or just open up the little door there and let the inside of the trailer keep them warm. The city water hookup which I have never used. Will I need to wrap that up or since I have never used it since I have installed it (the old one broke off when I bought the trailer) I am guessing I will need to wrap that somehow even though I don't use it?

The front of the hot water heater is exposed to the elements other than a little cover that goes over it. Since that hot water heater is running will that keep the drain on the outside from freezing? I'm thinking not.

I am planning on leaving cabinet doors open (where pipes lie) to keep them warmed up with in interior heat.

I am also thinking about taking out my led bulbs and putting in the regular bulbs so that will throw off some extra warmth also.

Furnace works great and I also have a little electric fireplace that I use in the trailer also for added heat.

My camping is at state parks with electricity at the site.

Here is the diagram. Caveman like but I'm hoping you get the idea of where things lay in the trailer.



I will be filling up the fresh water tank with water before I go and emptying it when I return and then winterize the trailer till the next trip.

Sorry for the length of this post. I'm just wanting to make sure I haven't missed anything.

Thank you
Jim

[jbrowning]

westend wrote:

jbrowning wrote:
How would you attach the foam board around the trailer? I really dont want to attach them to the trailer.

Tape.

But wont tape damage the trailer surface or is there a special kind of tape you use?

[westend]

jbrowning wrote:
How would you attach the foam board around the trailer? I really dont want to attach them to the trailer.

Tape.

[jbrowning]

How would you attach the foam board around the trailer? I really dont want to attach them to the trailer.

[jbrowning]

Since I'm only in my early 50's it is still fun for me and not that much work. I still get the pleasure of being away even if I do have to do a little work.

I am really liking this trailer and am enjoying it.

Thanks
Jim

[jaycocreek]

My trailer is a 1971 Terry Trailer

Owned several of them, one of my favorite trailers. I've skirted with plywood/vinyl/straw and visqueen. Any work but I liked vinyl the best for looks and different spots being reusable but spendy.

You will definitely notice a difference in floor temps with any type of skirting and lights under the trailer.

[Dick_B]

Why? At our ages (mid 70's) it is too much work and the risk is too great for the little pleasure.

[jbrowning]

Just a quick reply before I get to work this morning. I have dry camped in the trailer for a couple of weekends during the winter with no issues. I have just gotten to the age that I like a shower of a morning and really and truly washing off in a pan just doesn't hack it for me any more. So that is the real reason for the running water.

A little bit more info.

I live in Colorado Springs and normally winter camp in Pueblo which is the banana belt of Colorado. Normally lows can be in the teens and possibly a dab of snow and then the next day it can be sunny and 40-50 degrees outside. Humidity is very low in this area normally single digits to maybe in the lower teens. So I'm not really too worried about condensation building up, also during those days I will have the door open and windows open to allow for fresh air in the trailer.
As far as a underbelly goes. My trailer is a 1971 Terry Trailer. I don't believe there is an underbelly on it. That is the reason I was leaning towards some type of skirting to keep some of the cold away from the tanks and the floor at the same time. No I'm not meaning to keep the lines or tanks at 40-50 degrees at night. As long as they are about 35 degrees I will be perfectly happy and so should the tanks and lines.
Where I camp I am about an hour from my house. So if there is an issue with no electricity I will just pack up and come back home. No problem at all with doing that.

Thanks and I hope I have clarified some of the questions you all have had.
Jim

[jaycocreek]

Jbrowning

I've had trailers just like yours with water tanks and lines inside. I prefer that in freezing temps. The water will freeze where it goes under the doors in really cold temps. Loosen up the straps that hold the water lines down to the floor or wall to create an air barrier under them.

I use vinyl skirting without insulation combined with a light bulb under the holding tanks takes you down to around 8 degrees without freezing. I use two lights directly under tanks.

Having said all that and spent years in an rv through Idaho winters, now I blow out the water lines and winterize and bring water and set a porta-potti in the bathroom.. Much easier without ever having to worry about freezing.

I have spent many a morning with hair dryer in hand trying to thaw out water lines and figuring out where it froze or outside shaking water lines and pouring hot water on connections.

By winterizing and using a porta-potti there is know worry of freezing, hooked up to power or not, using water jugs/paper plates and a catalytic heater to keep you toasty warm.

[bid_time]

fallsrider wrote:
This may not work for you, but there is a simpler solution, as I see it, for short trips. Last winter, I took DS on three different overnighters when the temps were below freezing (mid 20s on one trip). I left the water system winterized. I took cooking/drinking water in a 7 gallon aquatainer. If I needed to pour any water down the drain, I poured it into the toilet, and I used the water I took with me to pour into the toilet for flushing. I used the toilet for #1 only. When I got home, I drained the blackwater tank, then poured more antifreeze into it.

I used paper plates for meals, and just placed any dirty dishes in the sink and washed them when we got home.

I don't know at what point with temps the blackwater tank would become a problem. Mid-teens might not work the way I did it. You would need to keep adding more antifreeze, I'm sure.

To me, the extra work required to use your on-board water system would not be worth it for just a weekend trip. I would find a way to get by with the water system still winterized. Our local state park has a heated bath house to make this easier. This may or may not work for you.

That's what I do. Secondly, what happens when the electricity goes out for a few days?

[fallsrider]

This may not work for you, but there is a simpler solution, as I see it, for short trips. Last winter, I took DS on three different overnighters when the temps were below freezing (mid 20s on one trip). I left the water system winterized. I took cooking/drinking water in a 7 gallon aquatainer. If I needed to pour any water down the drain, I poured it into the toilet, and I used the water I took with me to pour into the toilet for flushing. I used the toilet for #1 only. When I got home, I drained the blackwater tank, then poured more antifreeze into it.

I used paper plates for meals, and just placed any dirty dishes in the sink and washed them when we got home.

I don't know at what point with temps the blackwater tank would become a problem. Mid-teens might not work the way I did it. You would need to keep adding more antifreeze, I'm sure.

To me, the extra work required to use your on-board water system would not be worth it for just a weekend trip. I would find a way to get by with the water system still winterized. Our local state park has a heated bath house to make this easier. This may or may not work for you.

[hddecker]

Cold weather camping presents a whole new set of problems.

You say you will just be doing weekend trips in the winter, before I made skirting, I would look at upgrading the belly insulation and ensure it's well sealed. Open up every thing that has a hole through the skin and spray some expanding foam in to seal them up. Those plastic covers over the cable/phone inlet, water supply, etc. my so caled four season TT had more air leaks than a sieve. Look behind your electrical panel, in the cabinets under the sink. There are a bunch of holes that wheren't sealed up after the the holes were drilled and wire/plumbing run.

Condensation? More like a rain forest. Be prepared to run your range hood and bathroom vents to help move the condensation out, a humidistat wired into the range hood will help to keep the mositure moving out. I buy Calcium Chloride in 50# bags and make my own air driers using icecream buckets and plastic strainers from the dollar store. We leave the air driers in our trailer year round, until we are ready to hit the road. Last bag of Calcium Chloride that I bought cost me around $40, about a third of the cost of buying the air drier refills from an RV dealer.

Be sure to drain the fresh water before you head home, any water left in the lines can freeze up very quickly between the air temperature and the wind chill at 50-55 mph. I use a small 12V compresser to blow out the lines. Make sure the blade valves are in good shape and not leaking. If they leak, you will most likely have valves that freeze up and you won't be able to dump your tanks.

[westend]

First, i would do away with these things you've mentioned: Changing LED's out for regular bulbs (I'd rather have plenty of 12v instead of the 8 BTU's from incandescents), the plywood (I'm camping, not building a garage, too much weight).

Things I would add: Use 1 1/2" extruded polystyrene instead of styrofoam. Duct tape for foam sheets. Extra extruded poly foam for windows, vents and where needed. Large gauge extension cords for adding more than 30 amps of electric. Pipe heat tape for the drain valves/pipes.

Things I know about Winter camping: Skirting is the best. There was a member of the Forum that had skirting around his Arctic Fox that over-wintered in ND. He had weeds growing under the trailer using heat lamps and was able to maintain a very elevated temperature. You will need to tap into more than one 30 amp circuit to use the lamps and the heat tapes. Use a heat tape around the drains, there is too much risk of a broken pipe if the weather turns bad. If I was real serious about Winter camping, I'd do the above and also get a different propane fired cabin heater that wasn't noisy and didn't gobble electric. It needs to be vented, IMO. Your water heater drain should be OK as long as the heater runs. It is connected to the warm tank. Be prepared to deal with condensation inside. You will have it.

FWIW, I've camped for weeks at sub zero, sometimes as low as -30f and things happen (like the entry door freezing) that you wouldn't have considered. You just need to be a Boy Scout and be flexible.

[flyinjake]

Jbrowning,

We love camping in the winter time and here are a few things that work for us.

Water supply line. We bought one of those pipe heaters that you can tape to a water supply line and then put the foam tubing around that. Wrapped tape around that eveyr so often to keep everything together. Leave extra at one end so it can be wrapped or placed along the parks supply line that comes up out of the ground. Also make sure it will be able to reach the electrical supply also. Seems like that pipe is the first to freeze. If warms up during the day, which in the South East it usually does, I will disconnect the water supply heater and reconnect int he evening.

Place a tarp over the water supply also. May help you trap some ground heat.

Water holding tanks. Gray, Black, Fresh. Remember all you need to do is keep it cool. Do not need to keep it warm just keep it above freezing. We have camped many times where the temps were in the twenty and teens and have not experienced any problems with the tanks freezing. We do not fill the fresh water tank and we add RV antifreeze to the the black and gray water tanks. I would say a gallon per weekend trip. Do not know if that is helping or the amount of water and what heat from the trailer prevents it from freezing.

We use an electrical ceramic heater at night set to about sixty. Really cold it basically runs all night as its reading the temp close to the floor. Turn the furnace on in the morning so the "bears" come out of the sleeping bags.

Water heater should take care of itself as long as you leave it on.

If running a heater and plan on keeping it in the sixties in the trailer then I think the tanks and pump inside the trailer should be fine. Allow air circulation around tank if you are concerned.

Those are my thoughts and enjoy camping when most people will be at home.



Jake