Why all the hate on 1/2 ton tvs

[Dreenn]

Like the title says I have read many posts that basically suggest that towing a 30ish foot Tt with a 1/2 ton truck is wrong and your going to Indanger your family and anyone around you on the road that said I have a few questions

I just bought a 30foot Tt dry weight is 5200 loaded is 7500 I believe by the manufacture sticker I am towing it with a 2014 gmc 1500.

I looked up max tow rating on my gmc in the manual and used my window sticker for refers to what was equipped it said max was 9600 pounds now looking at my door sticker I don't see 9600 pounds anywhere on it am I missing something?? Or is my truck rated to tow a lot less then what the manual says

Sorry for the poor grammar typing on my cell phone

[Aluminum_Siding]

My TT is 32' 10' tong to tail and "5500 dry". I pulled it with my old (07) 150 and now with my 6.7 250 turbo diesel. Yep the 150 works OK but pull it with a 250/2500 turbo diesel with a longer wheel base and higher payload. You wont look back. Plus my 250 turbo diesel xlt with 3.33 rear rated at 14500 towing, gets waaaaay better mileage both towing and not than an ecoboost with the 4:10 rear it takes to be rated at the 11300.

[4X4Dodger]

TomG2 wrote:

4X4Dodger wrote:
....snip.......... And until this is done please do not continue to claim that a 3/4 ton truck is by default SAFER that a 1/2 ton or an SUV. There are too many factors involved.

You really think that a half ton pickup with a "Tow rating" of 9,600 pounds is good for that or more? Maybe I read it wrong, but you seem to be saying that the ratings are lowered by the engineers and lawyers?

Yes I do and that is **almost** exactly what I am saying. I said that the ACTUAL DESIGN LOAD is at least 1.5 times higher than the Design SPEC. And that the Design spec is further DE-RATED by the legal department to the numbers you see published so they can have what I called "legal Headroom" in case they must defend their decisions in court.

All over the world I have seen much smaller vehicles than 1/2 ton Pick ups carrying/towing much larger loads on a daily work basis than what most Americans believe is even possible. With much smaller engines. Are the physics different? No. It's the legal system that is different.

And further, as I pointed out previously, there has never been any real world testing of what the actual limits are for any given truck/spec combination. Until then the numbers are really meaningless.

[Charles2222]

If I were new at this after reading these post I would throw up my hands and quit.It truly makes me laugh at some of the post I just don't see towing as rocket science Sorry.

[Terryallan]

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:

4X4Dodger wrote:

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:

3oaks wrote:
Yea, doesn't everyone know nothing less than a 350 dully is safe to tow anything. :R

Towing over 6000 lbs is a matter of.....
1/2 ton = good
3/4 ton = better
1 ton dually = best

Tow the same trailer with a 1 ton dually and get back to us.

F450 even better,
F650 even better

A 10 wheeled 35000lb over the road Freightliner would be even better. but NOT needed.



If folks are scared to tow a little over 6000lb with a F150. I would suggest a Freightliner. No sway, good braking, won't be pushed around by the TT. You won't even know it is there. Try it, and get back to us

1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and 1 ton are the normal trucks you see on the road. Your reply is trollish.

I beg to differ..the reply is NOT Trollish. It simply points out your very faulty logic.

Better is not necessarily the same as Bigger. There are many other considerations.

Towing with a semi isn't a totally trollish statement?
GFY

You seem to be pretty new at this. Many, Many people tow with "simis" But that is not really the point. Point is. Where do you stop? I towed a pup /popup with a Jeep CJ5. would a F350 have towed it better? Why of course. But why would I want to tow a 2000lb pup with a F350?

Point really is. size the TV to the TT. A F350, or F250, is NOT needed to tow a 6000lb, 31' TT. That is considerable, and un necessary overkill. Would they do it better? Of course, but so would a Kenworth

[Dreenn]

Terryallan wrote:

Dreenn wrote:

ROBERTSUNRUS wrote:
🙂 Hi, there are several ways to look at this, 1/2 ton thing. I will use my new truck for an example. My truck is rated to tow 11,200 lbs. I would never consider anything near that. My truck has a gross combined weight rating of 17,100 lbs and a 7,650 lbs gross vehicle weight rating. If I figure my truck at GVWR and subtract that from my GCWR, that leaves me with 9,450 lbs for a trailer. (this is more realistic)

For reference, my trailer is rated at 6,300 lbs.

I searched for a truck with the Max Tow option to help increase my payload. My payload is 1745 lbs.

Here is the most common problem. (in my opinion) Half ton buyers buy what they see on the lot and end up without the Max Tow Package, and the truck with the most toys. Then they find out that they need bigger mirrors. Then after everything is said and done, they find out that their new truck has a pitiful 800 to barely over 1,000 lb payload.

Now you need to bail out of that 1/2 ton and move up to a 3/4 ton. And if you still didn't learn to do your home work, there are 3/4 ton Diesels out there that have lower payloads, lower tow ratings, and lower Gross combined weight ratings than my F-150.

The payload on my truck is 1764 which I've already stated and when I say 7500 pound trailer that is being generous dry weight of my trailer is 5200

Many of you are missing some of what he says. The 7500lbs he is referring to, is the GVWR of the TT, not the actual loaded weight. I would be willing to bet the actual loaded weight is somewhere in the 6300lb range. Far from the GVWR, and well inside the TV's capabilities, as it would be even if loaded to the GVWR.

And remember for all y'all that say, yeah you can do it with a 1500, but a 2500would be better. Where do you stop? Again if a 2500 is better, a MTD is better than that, and full blown road tractor is better than that. and yes many folks tow with road tractors. See them all the time in the big CGs.

The thing is. Smart people buy what they need. Smart people size the TV to the TT. Just like when I had a pup. I didn't need a F150 to tow it. I used a Ranger, and a Jeep. Had plenty of TV. Didn't need a F150 until I got a 6000lb TT. Now IF I had a 10,000lb TT. I'd buy a F250. And IF I had a 15000lb 5er. I'd get a F350. You size the TV to the trailer. No need to buy what you don't need.

My TT is 31', and weighs from 5500lb to 6600lbs depending on where it is going. It weighs a lot more when packed for 10 people for a week at the beach, than it does for 2 nights for 2 in the mountains. And you know what? the TV can't tell the difference. It tows the 6600 as well as it does the 5500. The TT just follows along like, well like it is designed to do. No wiggle, no pushing, no nothing. And the MPG is the same at both weights. I have a stress free easy comfortable drive. I ususaly lay my hand at the bottom of the wheel, and just ride, and guide. But always ready to drive IF I need to. Lots of difference between riding, and guiding, and having to drive.

This guy in my opion has it right I usually only go for 3 days I won't be packing a whole lot and most of it will go in the Tt I have towing experience with my boat granted a boat isn't a giant box and is totally different and a lot lighter and tell me none of u guys have ever over loaded the bed of ur trucks with dirt,mulch, or even gravel ect... I see trucks all the time bigger 3/4 and 1 tons squating hard

[RoadXYZ]

Tennessee_Nomad wrote:
I don't hate on half tons. I had an F150 STX 4x4 for several years. I just decided I wanted more payload and a bigger hampster! 🙂

Thanx for the laugh !

[marcsbigfoot20b]

4X4Dodger wrote:

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:

4X4Dodger wrote:

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:

3oaks wrote:
Yea, doesn't everyone know nothing less than a 350 dully is safe to tow anything. :R

Towing over 6000 lbs is a matter of.....
1/2 ton = good
3/4 ton = better
1 ton dually = best

Tow the same trailer with a 1 ton dually and get back to us.

F450 even better,
F650 even better

A 10 wheeled 35000lb over the road Freightliner would be even better. but NOT needed.



If folks are scared to tow a little over 6000lb with a F150. I would suggest a Freightliner. No sway, good braking, won't be pushed around by the TT. You won't even know it is there. Try it, and get back to us

1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and 1 ton are the normal trucks you see on the road. Your reply is trollish.

I beg to differ..the reply is NOT Trollish. It simply points out your very faulty logic.

Better is not necessarily the same as Bigger. There are many other considerations.

Towing with a semi isn't a totally trollish statement?
GFY

If GFY means what I think it does then your vocabulary is on a par with your Logic. (Both bad)

It makes one wonder why someone would take this so very personally as you do to write that over this issue?

I take driving and towing a heavy TT seriously/"personally". I don't want a 1/2 ton that is just 100 lbs under max weight to rear end me because itt can't stop going down a big mountain, lose control when a semi passes it and it swerves across the median causing a head on or just crashes in a ditch killing themselves.
If people here have never towed with more than a 1/2 ton then they don't have any experience to post any meaningful info about the differences with 3/4 or 1 ton.

[TomG2]

4X4Dodger wrote:
....snip.......... And until this is done please do not continue to claim that a 3/4 ton truck is by default SAFER that a 1/2 ton or an SUV. There are too many factors involved.

You really think that a half ton pickup with a "Tow rating" of 9,600 pounds is good for that or more? Maybe I read it wrong, but you seem to be saying that the ratings are lowered by the engineers and lawyers?

[4X4Dodger]

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:

4X4Dodger wrote:

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:

3oaks wrote:
Yea, doesn't everyone know nothing less than a 350 dully is safe to tow anything. :R

Towing over 6000 lbs is a matter of.....
1/2 ton = good
3/4 ton = better
1 ton dually = best

Tow the same trailer with a 1 ton dually and get back to us.

F450 even better,
F650 even better

A 10 wheeled 35000lb over the road Freightliner would be even better. but NOT needed.



If folks are scared to tow a little over 6000lb with a F150. I would suggest a Freightliner. No sway, good braking, won't be pushed around by the TT. You won't even know it is there. Try it, and get back to us

1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and 1 ton are the normal trucks you see on the road. Your reply is trollish.

I beg to differ..the reply is NOT Trollish. It simply points out your very faulty logic.

Better is not necessarily the same as Bigger. There are many other considerations.

Towing with a semi isn't a totally trollish statement?
GFY

If GFY means what I think it does then your vocabulary is on a par with your Logic. (Both bad)

It makes one wonder why someone would take this so very personally as you do to write that over this issue?

[rbpru]

Dreenn,

For all the suggestions and opinions, the decision comes down to two basic facts.
1.) The math – If your best guesstimate says you are at or near your TV limit, hitch it up and head for the scales. The numbers are what the numbers are. Chances are you will be close or a bit over your max cargo.
2.) The cost to change TVs – If you find you are near or a bit over the TV limit you know you can buy a bigger truck or, you have to be mindful of the amount of cargo you carry in the TV. You might have to shift some items to the TT.

If you know that a new TV is not in your future, then you will probably do what others do and use what you have. You are the only one who can decide if your TV and TT combination suits your needs.

Also remember that those "neads" change with towing experience.

[4X4Dodger]

Those that are enamored of the numbers printed on the stickers in their truck need to remember where they come from.

The design rating is given to the engineers as a goal to reach. The engineers design it to have a 1.5 times safety factor AT MINIMUM.

Then the LAWYERS decide how much of that ACTUAL design limit gets to be stated on the stickers and the manual and the brochure. This figure is often a significant de-rating from the ACTUAL load capacity.

Why? because it is "Legal Head Room" just in case they have to defend themselves in court. They want to be able to say that the design of the truck was significantly better than the published data and therefore the Failure in question is not the fault of the Manufacturer.

What does this mean for the average truck owner/buyer?

Simple; the numbers you all quote as Pure Unassailable GOSPEL that should never be exceeded are in reality Meaningless. These numbers have very little to do with the reality of what you can and cannot carry or tow but what the MFG wants you to think you can carry/tow.

This legal protection has the added benefit of driving customers UP MARKET into the ever more profitable larger and more expensive trucks.

Not a bad game for the Truck Manufacturers.

A little more skepticism and a lot less credulity where these numbers are concerned is definitely needed.

Finally; To the Best of my knowledge no impartial third party has ever tested the actual-Real-World capabilities of these trucks and what they can carry and tow. And I dont mean the self serving "reviews" of the truck Mags...but actual scientific testing. And until this is done please do not continue to claim that a 3/4 ton truck is by default SAFER that a 1/2 ton or an SUV. There are too many factors involved.

[marcsbigfoot20b]

4X4Dodger wrote:

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:

3oaks wrote:
Yea, doesn't everyone know nothing less than a 350 dully is safe to tow anything. :R

Towing over 6000 lbs is a matter of.....
1/2 ton = good
3/4 ton = better
1 ton dually = best

Tow the same trailer with a 1 ton dually and get back to us.

F450 even better,
F650 even better

A 10 wheeled 35000lb over the road Freightliner would be even better. but NOT needed.



If folks are scared to tow a little over 6000lb with a F150. I would suggest a Freightliner. No sway, good braking, won't be pushed around by the TT. You won't even know it is there. Try it, and get back to us

1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and 1 ton are the normal trucks you see on the road. Your reply is trollish.

I beg to differ..the reply is NOT Trollish. It simply points out your very faulty logic.

Better is not necessarily the same as Bigger. There are many other considerations.

Towing with a semi isn't a totally trollish statement?
GFY

[4X4Dodger]

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:

Terryallan wrote:

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:

3oaks wrote:
Yea, doesn't everyone know nothing less than a 350 dully is safe to tow anything. :R

Towing over 6000 lbs is a matter of.....
1/2 ton = good
3/4 ton = better
1 ton dually = best

Tow the same trailer with a 1 ton dually and get back to us.

F450 even better,
F650 even better

A 10 wheeled 35000lb over the road Freightliner would be even better. but NOT needed.



If folks are scared to tow a little over 6000lb with a F150. I would suggest a Freightliner. No sway, good braking, won't be pushed around by the TT. You won't even know it is there. Try it, and get back to us

1/2 ton, 3/4 ton and 1 ton are the normal trucks you see on the road. Your reply is trollish.

I beg to differ..the reply is NOT Trollish. It simply points out your very faulty logic.

Better is not necessarily the same as Bigger. There are many other considerations.

[Terryallan]

Dreenn wrote:

ROBERTSUNRUS wrote:
🙂 Hi, there are several ways to look at this, 1/2 ton thing. I will use my new truck for an example. My truck is rated to tow 11,200 lbs. I would never consider anything near that. My truck has a gross combined weight rating of 17,100 lbs and a 7,650 lbs gross vehicle weight rating. If I figure my truck at GVWR and subtract that from my GCWR, that leaves me with 9,450 lbs for a trailer. (this is more realistic)

For reference, my trailer is rated at 6,300 lbs.

I searched for a truck with the Max Tow option to help increase my payload. My payload is 1745 lbs.

Here is the most common problem. (in my opinion) Half ton buyers buy what they see on the lot and end up without the Max Tow Package, and the truck with the most toys. Then they find out that they need bigger mirrors. Then after everything is said and done, they find out that their new truck has a pitiful 800 to barely over 1,000 lb payload.

Now you need to bail out of that 1/2 ton and move up to a 3/4 ton. And if you still didn't learn to do your home work, there are 3/4 ton Diesels out there that have lower payloads, lower tow ratings, and lower Gross combined weight ratings than my F-150.

The payload on my truck is 1764 which I've already stated and when I say 7500 pound trailer that is being generous dry weight of my trailer is 5200

Many of you are missing some of what he says. The 7500lbs he is referring to, is the GVWR of the TT, not the actual loaded weight. I would be willing to bet the actual loaded weight is somewhere in the 6300lb range. Far from the GVWR, and well inside the TV's capabilities, as it would be even if loaded to the GVWR.

And remember for all y'all that say, yeah you can do it with a 1500, but a 2500would be better. Where do you stop? Again if a 2500 is better, a MTD is better than that, and full blown road tractor is better than that. and yes many folks tow with road tractors. See them all the time in the big CGs.

The thing is. Smart people buy what they need. Smart people size the TV to the TT. Just like when I had a pup. I didn't need a F150 to tow it. I used a Ranger, and a Jeep. Had plenty of TV. Didn't need a F150 until I got a 6000lb TT. Now IF I had a 10,000lb TT. I'd buy a F250. And IF I had a 15000lb 5er. I'd get a F350. You size the TV to the trailer. No need to buy what you don't need.

My TT is 31', and weighs from 5500lb to 6600lbs depending on where it is going. It weighs a lot more when packed for 10 people for a week at the beach, than it does for 2 nights for 2 in the mountains. And you know what? the TV can't tell the difference. It tows the 6600 as well as it does the 5500. The TT just follows along like, well like it is designed to do. No wiggle, no pushing, no nothing. And the MPG is the same at both weights. I have a stress free easy comfortable drive. I ususaly lay my hand at the bottom of the wheel, and just ride, and guide. But always ready to drive IF I need to. Lots of difference between riding, and guiding, and having to drive.

[Gr8life]

"Why all the hate on 1/2 ton TV's"?

I am not sure why anyone would hate an inanimate object like a pickup truck, they are what they are. I do hate the ads that come on television claiming that their half ton tow vehicles are capable of towing ten, eleven, or twelve thousand pounds when the typical unit on the lots are only capable of half that. Or less. Of course it does keep these forums busy with people wondering what they can do to improve their tow vehicles so that they can tow safely and comfortably. My last F-150 had a "tow rating" over 9,000 pounds and I found it to be an uncomfortable dog at 7,000.