Why consider 12v fridge for boondocking?

[Vintage465]

So I want to offer up this question out about 12v compressor refrigerators. I'm going to post this on other forums too, so your "forum tramps"(like me)may see this spread around some other pages. Not interested in thoughts regarding space savings, preferance due to fear of propane gas or performance of a 12v vs. propane fridge. Taking all those criteria out, we are left with why or why not. Having said all that this is the base of the question: I keep seeing people use the words "boon docking" and "12v compressor fridges" in the same sentance as though there is an advantage to having a 12v fridge while boon docking. I believe that an absorption fridge is the best boon docking choice because propane nearly lasts forever(at least a month) compared to 12v fridges that are dependent on recharging the battery bank daily. When responding...........not interested in anything other than energy sustainability while boon docking. I also am not interested in peoples opinions on performance between the two as I've never had any issue with any absorption fridge keeping things cool event in 110 degree temps. Just energy sustainability while boon docking.

Thanks!

[goducks10]

It's pretty cut and dried.
If you have an absorption fridge and it's working fine then don't even consider a 12V fridge.

If your absorption fridge quits working then you have a choice to make.
Stay the course or go 12V with solar and batteries. The choice is easier to make if you already have solar and batteries and your absorption fridge dies.

If you buy a new RV that comes with a 12V compressor fridge as OEM then you also have a choice to make. Add more solar to be able to boondock or don't if you mostly use elec hookups.

I've never read anywhere that someone took out their perfectly working absorption fridge and replaced it with a new 12V fridge because they wanted to boondock a lot.

[Grit_dog]

This whole thing stems from everyone professing that "their" method of ______ (fill in the blank) is the "right" way and generally not recognizing if it's maybe something quirky or not the "norm."
Then to top it off, said person exudes the opinion that their way is the best and whether it has good basis or not, they will argue it vehemently.

[JRscooby]

If my camper came with a furnace, then sure propane would be worthwhile. But the first time we used the camper, (Christmas eve, 2004) I looked at temp after I hooked up to pickup. 2*F. I carry a Buddy and another heater incase we lose power, but we depend on electric heaters and campfire for heat.
I worked as CG host for 2 months. In that time, I used a stove to re-heat leftovers 3-4 times a week, but all the cooking was coals or campfire. If the factory stove could of just sat there, likely it would still go camping. But it had to be moved to the floor to push the bunk in. And on the floor, worse tangle foot than whiskey. Now we do have crock pot and skillet to use in fire ban.
From factory my camper used propane for 2 things; Stove and fridge. Don't use stove, fridge works fine on 12 or 120, so very little need to light fridge.

StirCrazy wrote:
and again, what does that have to do with the propane tank being out in the sun?
but going around this loup we are on, a 12V fridge is not the normal boondock rout but it can be with a tone of solar.
Steve

I'm not sure it would take a ton of solar, when compared to what some use for their tv, music, or lighting up the countryside in fear of dark.
You say you use some solar, and talk about how cheap it is to fill the tank. But you can't see that if you leave a half full tank in the sun until a trump serves in the military it will never be more than half tank?

[StirCrazy]

JRscooby wrote:

How long does the propane tank need to be in sun every day to replace fuel burned to power the fridge?

StirCrazy wrote:
what exactly are you talking about here?

JRscooby wrote:
My understanding is the most normal way for RVs to store electricity is 12 VDC. A residential fridge operates on 120 VAC. So to power the fridge off battery, (Stored 12 VDC) power must run thru a inverter. Every time you change the form some of the power is lost. Hell, when the compressor cycles off, fridge is not taking any power, the inverter is using power just waiting for demand.
The OP is talking about a fridge that uses power in the same form it is stored, so the changing is not needed.

and again, what does that have to do with the propane tank being out in the sun? its this whole topic has eveolved into somthing else, your last statment you don't boondock as the wife needs 120v power so great nothing wrong with that, I know lots of people who do and don't boondock and use colman capstoves and such for cooking as they like the old days where you cooked on the picknick table. I got over that by getting an outdoor kitchen but I still use the inside stuff also, but I would never knock some one who doesn't. but I don't understand why some one would rip part of there rv out, just don't use it.. mind you I camp in early spring to lait fall so a furnace is a bonus.

but going around this loup we are on, a 12V fridge is not the normal boondock rout but it can be with a tone of solar. the reasoning behind the propane is it is one less electrical load and covering that load with solar or got forbid a genny(nothing worse than hearing one of thoes flash up in the bush at 7am so some one can make there coffee......) anyways I digress. if you free up that power load it leave more power for things like the furnace, lights, radio, so you cn get through it spending less money one electrical upgrades.

for example. costco charges me 14 bucks CDN a bottle to totaly fill my propain (two 20lb bottles) if I go camping by myself they would proabaly last 1.5 to two seasons, if the wife is with me 1/2 a season haha. so lets say 21 bucks per season average. I spent 600 cdn for my totl power system in my camper which is 325 watts of solar, charge controler all the wiring a new power center and two 210AH 6V batteries. the fridge runs off propane and I can camp all season off thoes two bottles using the waterheater, fridge and furnace when needed, and never run out of power. (no inverter so it is basicly a 12V outlett for charging, lights, water pump, furnace, phantom for the fridge.) by noon every day my batteries are charged. if I were to add a 12v fridge I think the adverage consumption of the one I was looking at is 20 to 31 AH/day depending on temp.. so now I have just doubled my daily consumtion and one cloudy day and I am screwed for the second day. so to get back to where I was I would need to add more battery capacity and 1 more solar panel. so the panel would be about 240.00 and the batteries would be about 400, not to mention where do I put these batteries in a truck camper now.. so 640 say 15 bucks for some more wire and ends.. 655. devide that by 21 is just over 30. so it would take 30 seasons of camping to pay back that investment in propane savings... For me I would proably still do the upgrade, but instead of getting the 12V fridge I would also install an inverter so I have 120v power when I am camping and stick to the propane fridge.

Steve

[JRscooby]

StirCrazy wrote:

Be hard pressed to prove a household fridge, powered thru inverter, would be more efficient than same size running directly on 12 V.

How long does the propane tank need to be in sun every day to replace fuel burned to power the fridge?

what exactly are you talking about here?

My understanding is the most normal way for RVs to store electricity is 12 VDC. A residential fridge operates on 120 VAC. So to power the fridge off battery, (Stored 12 VDC) power must run thru a inverter. Every time you change the form some of the power is lost. Hell, when the compressor cycles off, fridge is not taking any power, the inverter is using power just waiting for demand.
The OP is talking about a fridge that uses power in the same form it is stored, so the changing is not needed.

Huntindog wrote:

You ask "What did I lose"....And then say you are trying to figure out a way to fun the fridge off of a 1LB tank... When you had a system that you removed that would have done what you are trying to do now.... My question was, and still is... What did you Gain by removing the propane? Especially since you DO want to run the fridge off propane on occasion.

1 time, in the 4 years after I removed the tank, we spent a extra night at 1 CG, instead of moving on the same day wife had a class, because I did not have a way to power the fridge while she did her thing.
For that 1 time, I for sure see no reason to have the extra 30 lbs (guesstimate) on the hitch ball. Then there is the issues that likely would develop with 20+ YO soft copper lines. (As a young man I worked a few trucks with copper air lines. I can't stand under why RV industry has not come up with something better)

[Huntindog]

JRscooby wrote:

Huntindog wrote:


I know a guy that bought a Lance cabover camper. When he and his wife were showing it to me, they proudly pointed out their "improvements"
Which basically consisted of removing everything that that felt they would never use,,, The stove, microwave, fridge, furnace, water pump and plumbing, holding tanks,lights, battery, etc. They now use flashlights, a cooler, a coleman stove, water jugs, etc. It works for them I guess...But I never understood it. Why buy something like an RV just to turn it into a tin tent?.... More extreme than your propane tank... But still similar. I cannot see why removing the tank has any tangible benefit. It is not like you are physically carrying it.. It is part of the RV. You just removed some functionality.

You seem to be under the impression I get started taking things out willy-nilly. First, DW demands access to 120V to camp, so if I take her, I take the trailer, stay where I can plug in. (Last 2 trips without her I set cot up next to pickup, didn't take a tent.)
I bought a 7 YO camper, Thanksgiving weekend of '04. So how much "resale value" will I loose making changes? OTOH, I can make changes that make it better suit US. The camper did not come with WH or furnace, so the big user of propane was the 3 burner stove. From tent days, we had a 3 burner Coleman that worked better. Use or not, the factory stove had to be moved from floor to counter on setup, back to floor for take down. Because we rarely cook with gas, and more rarely cook inside, why haul it? That leaves the fridge as the only installed demand for propane. I have had no luck trusting it to stay lit while driving, but wired so it is the only demand on the charge line from TV, it cools on 12V while driving. Now I am working on a idea of feeding the fridge off 1 lb bottle, for times we want to spend some time stopped between CGs

You ask "What did I lose"....And then say you are trying to figure out a way to fun the fridge off of a 1LB tank... When you had a system that you removed that would have done what you are trying to do now.... My question was, and still is... What did you Gain by removing the propane? Especially since you DO want to run the fridge off propane on occasion.

[StirCrazy]

JRscooby wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

If your looking for the least amount of energy used, a household fridge will win hands down. If you look at the volume or weight needed to store the energy (battery bank or propane tanks) absorption fridge wins hands down. Energy density of propane on a BTU/lb or BTU/ volume beats batteries by orders of magnitude.

Be hard pressed to prove a household fridge, powered thru inverter, would be more efficient than same size running directly on 12 V.

How long does the propane tank need to be in sun every day to replace fuel burned to power the fridge?

what exactly are you talking about here?

[JRscooby]

Huntindog wrote:


I know a guy that bought a Lance cabover camper. When he and his wife were showing it to me, they proudly pointed out their "improvements"
Which basically consisted of removing everything that that felt they would never use,,, The stove, microwave, fridge, furnace, water pump and plumbing, holding tanks,lights, battery, etc. They now use flashlights, a cooler, a coleman stove, water jugs, etc. It works for them I guess...But I never understood it. Why buy something like an RV just to turn it into a tin tent?.... More extreme than your propane tank... But still similar. I cannot see why removing the tank has any tangible benefit. It is not like you are physically carrying it.. It is part of the RV. You just removed some functionality.

You seem to be under the impression I get started taking things out willy-nilly. First, DW demands access to 120V to camp, so if I take her, I take the trailer, stay where I can plug in. (Last 2 trips without her I set cot up next to pickup, didn't take a tent.)
I bought a 7 YO camper, Thanksgiving weekend of '04. So how much "resale value" will I loose making changes? OTOH, I can make changes that make it better suit US. The camper did not come with WH or furnace, so the big user of propane was the 3 burner stove. From tent days, we had a 3 burner Coleman that worked better. Use or not, the factory stove had to be moved from floor to counter on setup, back to floor for take down. Because we rarely cook with gas, and more rarely cook inside, why haul it? That leaves the fridge as the only installed demand for propane. I have had no luck trusting it to stay lit while driving, but wired so it is the only demand on the charge line from TV, it cools on 12V while driving. Now I am working on a idea of feeding the fridge off 1 lb bottle, for times we want to spend some time stopped between CGs

[Huntindog]

JRscooby wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
Why would ya carry your perishables separately and not put them in the fridge until you get to your destination? :h

Because he removed his propane tanks.... So now he does not have a fridge unless he is plugged into AC power.:h

It is beyond me why he made it more difficult for himself.

Not exactly. When traveling CG to CG, my fridge works just fine on 12 V, powered by what most use for charge line.
I removed the propane because I filled a 20 lb tank, camped average 4 days a month for 3 years, and still had 15 lbs in the tank. Why in the world haul the tank? When going out in winter, I can load a tank or 3 in pickup with heater.

Because 1, the fridge in popup is small enough we need a cooler anyway. And mostly I need to plug in to cool, mostly set up, pack fridge, then take camper back down.
They sell food everywhere, so most times we only carry a couple of days.

I know a guy that bought a Lance cabover camper. When he and his wife were showing it to me, they proudly pointed out their "improvements"
Which basically consisted of removing everything that that felt they would never use,,, The stove, microwave, fridge, furnace, water pump and plumbing, holding tanks,lights, battery, etc. They now use flashlights, a cooler, a coleman stove, water jugs, etc. It works for them I guess...But I never understood it. Why buy something like an RV just to turn it into a tin tent?.... More extreme than your propane tank... But still similar. I cannot see why removing the tank has any tangible benefit. It is not like you are physically carrying it.. It is part of the RV. You just removed some functionality.

[Gdetrailer]

JRscooby wrote:


Not exactly. When traveling CG to CG, my fridge works just fine on 12 V, powered by what most use for charge line.
I removed the propane because I filled a 20 lb tank, camped average 4 days a month for 3 years, and still had 15 lbs in the tank. Why in the world haul the tank? When going out in winter, I can load a tank or 3 in pickup with heater.

I can beat that :B

I have two 30 lb cylinders, have used my current TT for 12 yrs, only have had to refill ONE cylinder in those 12 yrs :C and yes, both cylinders are "out of date".. Thanks to my home fridge conversion.

I still carry both cylinders since we do use the gas water heater and to take the chill off on some cool nights in the spring.

As I see it, camping for 12yrs cost me one refill at $19 (about $1.58 per yr) instead of $19 per two yrs ($9.50 per yr)in our previous TT which had a absorbsion fridge..

[JRscooby]

Huntindog wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
Why would ya carry your perishables separately and not put them in the fridge until you get to your destination? :h

Because he removed his propane tanks.... So now he does not have a fridge unless he is plugged into AC power.:h

It is beyond me why he made it more difficult for himself.

Not exactly. When traveling CG to CG, my fridge works just fine on 12 V, powered by what most use for charge line.
I removed the propane because I filled a 20 lb tank, camped average 4 days a month for 3 years, and still had 15 lbs in the tank. Why in the world haul the tank? When going out in winter, I can load a tank or 3 in pickup with heater.

Because 1, the fridge in popup is small enough we need a cooler anyway. And mostly I need to plug in to cool, mostly set up, pack fridge, then take camper back down.
They sell food everywhere, so most times we only carry a couple of days.

[Huntindog]

Grit dog wrote:
Why would ya carry your perishables separately and not put them in the fridge until you get to your destination? :h

Because he removed his propane tanks.... So now he does not have a fridge unless he is plugged into AC power.:h

It is beyond me why he made it more difficult for himself.

[JRscooby]

ktmrfs wrote:

If your looking for the least amount of energy used, a household fridge will win hands down. If you look at the volume or weight needed to store the energy (battery bank or propane tanks) absorption fridge wins hands down. Energy density of propane on a BTU/lb or BTU/ volume beats batteries by orders of magnitude.

Be hard pressed to prove a household fridge, powered thru inverter, would be more efficient than same size running directly on 12 V.

How long does the propane tank need to be in sun every day to replace fuel burned to power the fridge?

[valhalla360]

Vintage465 wrote:


Well, the only thing I'm really looking for is which one uses the least amount of energy while boon docking.

The 12v will use less energy but it's a form of energy that is more difficult to carry in large quantities, so purely looking at the energy consumed can be misleading.

[ktmrfs]

Vintage465 wrote:

valhalla360 wrote:

JRscooby wrote:

Vintage465 wrote:

But my question is. Why do people think it's the hot ticket for boon docking? I can see if you're regularly driving and covering ground.

For the 15+ years I have been reading the net about RVs there is rarely a week that somebody doesn't post something about their absorption fridge not working as well as expected. For many, the "hot ticket" seems to be go with a 120V compressor fridge. If a RV stores electricity it is a safe bet it is not storing 120 volt AC, but 12 V DC is likely. When you consider that every time you convert some of the electrons escape, IMHO it makes more sense to use in the same form it is stored.
YMMV

Well, the only thing I'm really looking for is which one uses the least amount of energy while boon docking. Also,for 10 years I worked in my Dad's RV shop and did my share of repairing absorption fridges. And for 40 years I've had absorptions fridges in my 4 different coaches. In those 4 coaches I had to replace the cooling unit in one of them and nothing else. So, I'm not concerned with the reliability of absorptions refer's. Though I am aware that the newer absorption fridges have better likely hood of failing due to the electronics on board them now-a-days.......

When 99% of RV fridges are absorption, it's not surprising if a similar number of issues are with absorption fridges.

Trust me, having spent time in the boating world where 12v is the standard, they have their own issues.

If your looking for the least amount of energy used, a household fridge will win hands down. If you look at the volume or weight needed to store the energy (battery bank or propane tanks) absorption fridge wins hands down. Energy density of propane on a BTU/lb or BTU/ volume beats batteries by orders of magnitude.