How 4-season are 4 seasons Lances?

[SkiBumAt50]

Ok, so lots of questions.

First off, let me introduce myself. I've got 3 kids who will all be off to college in the next 5 years or so. My wife and I have always loved traveling and we are avid skiers (Me moreso than her). We live in Upstate NY and have 2 dogs and a Cat.

So for when the kids go off to college for my next adventure I've settled on getting a truck camper. I've ruled out other vehicles for a few reasons. First, I have some towing needs, that some of the 4x4 vans can't accommodate. My two big goals for the TC are using it to drive to different ski resorts here in the North East, and driving it to fishing spots to fly fish. I will get a 4x4 but have no intentions of wheeling it hard; just rough roads and bad weather.

I think I've settled on a Lance 1172 or possibly a 975. I'll mate it to a Ford F550, (possibly super single conversion.) although I haven't decided on the upfitter yet.

I have a large shop that I can park it in, that's heated even in the winter. I built it with an RV in mind so large overhead door, electric drop, pull through, etc.

So first question, those of you that use your water in the winter I assume you are driving with the heat on? I'm pretty handy and would even consider adding a diesel heater to supplement in the winter. This really works if my wife can hop in and go, take showers, use the toilet etc. She doesn't Ski as much as me and is more than happy to go back and kick back with a book while I chase the last lift.

Those of you with the larger Lances what's your experience been? My typical winters here in NY are often down in the single digits (-17C for my Canadian friends) and while I've seen the Lances in person a few times it seems like maybe they'd need a bit more customizing to boost the low end? Do people find the bed warm enough in the really cold? I know some people use the bed systems to get an air gap, etc.

We've been to a few RV shows and the Lance seems to fit our needs the best. I like the room versus Bigfoot, and they seem to be a little more modern than Northern Lite, especially now with the Truma heating and AC. Does anyone use the dehumidifier in the winter? Hows that work?

I also work remotely and might occasionally take it for customer visits if I can reasonably get away with it, so I'll likely equip it with decent internet.

Anyone have any experiences similar to this they care to share? Am I asking too much of it?

[notsobigjoe]

JimK-NY wrote:
This whole idea sounds like a nightmare to me. I have to ask, why?

I would not want to take a trip with 2 adults and 3 teenagers jammed into a small RV even in the Summer. In Winter with temps down to the teens, that is likely to be a miserable experience. You have already heard about some of the issues; e.g, trying to heat the RV, moisture and condensation issues, RVs that are really not well insulated or designed for that sort of use. At the end of a ski day, where are you planning on putting all of that wet gear, skies, boots, clothing?

If you do attempt this insanity, I highly recommend you stay at a campground with hookups. At least you will have electricity to run the furnace and you can even substitute space heaters instead of the furnace. Regardless of the insulation, you are going to need plenty of heat so that you can bring in lots of outside air to try to fight the humidity problem.

Again, why even consider this? The cost for a handful of trips a year is going to be much higher than overnight stays in hotels/motels or even nice resorts.

The only way it can be done is with supplemental heating. IE, Hooked to electricity. On my 1181 it has a large pull out drawer which I removed for cold camping. I put one of those small cube heaters pointing straight in and nothing froze. the floor was even warmish. A small fan was clipped to the bathroom door for warm air to the cab over. A Vortec electric heater was then used as the main heat for the TC unit. It never shut off. The propane heat was really only used at night but it ran every minute with the exception of about 10 / 20 seconds when it would get to temp. 2 30LB tanks lasted 4 days doing it this way with above modifications. The first trip the propane was gone 1.5 days.
One more point is that I never went to a campground that far north over that cold of a season, there are none open as far as I know. We would camp in dads driveway over Christmas in Rome NY and it was bitterly cold. The snowbelt in NY is about as cold as it gets south of Canada. It can be done but it's a ton of work but it wasn't all those years ago...

[Grit_dog]

JimK-NY wrote:
This whole idea sounds like a nightmare to me. I have to ask, why?

I would not want to take a trip with 2 adults and 3 teenagers jammed into a small RV even in the Summer. In Winter with temps down to the teens, that is likely to be a miserable experience. You have already heard about some of the issues; e.g, trying to heat the RV, moisture and condensation issues, RVs that are really not well insulated or designed for that sort of use. At the end of a ski day, where are you planning on putting all of that wet gear, skies, boots, clothing?

If you do attempt this insanity, I highly recommend you stay at a campground with hookups. At least you will have electricity to run the furnace and you can even substitute space heaters instead of the furnace. Regardless of the insulation, you are going to need plenty of heat so that you can bring in lots of outside air to try to fight the humidity problem.

Again, why even consider this? The cost for a handful of trips a year is going to be much higher than overnight stays in hotels/motels or even nice resorts.

Not that the OP likely gives a carp about your opinion of his family camping arrangements, but to your point, he did say something like “when the kids are off to college” he wants to get a truck camper…so what was your point?

And fwiw, I’d think you know this beings you’re from the snow belt as well, but campgrounds with hookups basically don’t exist when you can ski down hills on snow….

[daily_double]

X2

[JimK-NY]

This whole idea sounds like a nightmare to me. I have to ask, why?

I would not want to take a trip with 2 adults and 3 teenagers jammed into a small RV even in the Summer. In Winter with temps down to the teens, that is likely to be a miserable experience. You have already heard about some of the issues; e.g, trying to heat the RV, moisture and condensation issues, RVs that are really not well insulated or designed for that sort of use. At the end of a ski day, where are you planning on putting all of that wet gear, skies, boots, clothing?

If you do attempt this insanity, I highly recommend you stay at a campground with hookups. At least you will have electricity to run the furnace and you can even substitute space heaters instead of the furnace. Regardless of the insulation, you are going to need plenty of heat so that you can bring in lots of outside air to try to fight the humidity problem.

Again, why even consider this? The cost for a handful of trips a year is going to be much higher than overnight stays in hotels/motels or even nice resorts.

[3_tons]

Can anybody find any kind of a standardized build convention that defines “4 Season”??…Truth is that it doesn’t exist - caveat emptor applies…

3 tons

[Buzzcut1]

I have camped down to -5F in my old non 4 season Lance 1055. My new Lance 1062 is only marginally better. I will still do a full inside the entry door layer of refelctix. Same for windows and skyights plus use the snap on pads for the sky lights. I also put fiberglass batting behind every external compartment door and in the waste valve area just like I did in the 1055.

[JimK-NY]

Four season to be means temps down in the upper 20s at night and freezing or above during the day. Lower than that, I leave. In fact much below freezing at night will cause me to start making plans for a warmer location. RV = recreational, not being frozen; vehicle, turn the key and leave for a better location.

[mbloof]

SkiBumAt50 wrote:
Thanks all for the comments. I get that I maybe asking a lot of the camper. While it's an expensive task, I'm not ready for a full Earthroamer yet. I'm a hobbyist and have done a fair bit of fabrication, and it's hard for me to not just say Ef it, and build one myself. I don't have the time for that.

@photomike My plan for the diesel heater was redundancy. I think I can possibly use a coolant heater and add a heater core to the unit. Quick disconnects for water to recirculate with the engine heater. It would serve a dual purpose and allow engine heat to warm the unit while on the road. Honestly if my wife isn't with me (She likely won't go as often as me) I can skip a day of showering. I thought about Vans honestly, all in it's way easier but I need the truck for my Car Hobby, and some other things.

@Notsobigjoe Yeah you know my area then. Which way EJ? Anyway... That's a lot of what I was thinking. I've looked at some of the doors and such, and they're not robust enough or sealed totally. I honestly like sleeping in the cold so if the unit is in the 50's at night I'm ok with that, so long as the pipes are kept warm enough. I'm an Engineer and even thought if I could fabricate an air to air heat exchanger I could figure a way out to dry out the air some, we'll see. I need to step back sometimes and not spiral away into details.

In the end, no plan survives contact with the enemy, so it might be I just need to get one and see what works.

Thanks all.

The problems with subfreezing camping are many.

#1 Having enough stored power to run the furnace. While propane catalytic heaters use no power proper ventilation is required for their use. Diesel heaters/furnaces may use less power but require another fuel source. In sub freezing temperatures (and add some wind) and your furnace is going to be running nearly non-stop in attempts to keep your camper warm. Best have a source of power or LOTS of AH to power it. 🙂

#2 Counter productive as it may, good ventilation is required while humans+animals are inside the camper as they give off moisture which will cause condensation on and IN anything in contact with the outside subfreezing temperatures. Add the additional wet clothing+ski gear and there is A LOT of moisture in the camper.

#3 Plumbing/basement - while most modern campers have heat ducts off the propane furnace to keep these heated all bets are off if you make use of alternative heat sources (above mentioned as well as AC electric space heaters) which won't provide heat in those areas.
I've heard of some campers using bottled water and RV antifreeze to "flush" their toilet while avoiding the use of their water system entirely. YMMV.

I'd agree with the other posters that mention the "4 season" moniker is more a marketing buzzword than any actual measure of performance.

Just IMHO, YMMV.

- Mark0.

[Grit_dog]

^your last sentence says it all.
You’re not going to do “better” than starting off with a 4 season camper. And with that it’ll handle below freezing temps and running water, to a point. Basement model TCs are decent here if they have or you can improve heated air exchange to the “basement”.
Reasonably the furnace will keep the camper warm down to single digit temperatures. But it will chew thru LP and battery power FAST.
Keeping the water on will just be a test. It’s not magic. But more challenging in below freezing temps. But you get what you put into it.
I was able to use our AF camper with no mods for better heat/air circulation in single digits at night 20s and sunny daytime but that was real close to the practical limit I’m sure.

A little diesel heater is a GREAT idea. And something I would do 100% if planning on any sort of regular cold weather use. And they’re relatively inexpensive. Just need to address the logistics and install.
For efficiency this would be your primary heat and the mouse turd toaster would be the redundant portion since it’s much less efficient.
An engine coolant radiator hookup in the camper is a bad idea. Scratch that one off the list. I suppose it’s possible but in no way practical. Same for the suggestion of plumbing from the truck diesel tank for a little add on diesel heater. Another solution that doesn’t solve a problem but only creates complexity and potential for failure points.

[SkiBumAt50]

Thanks all for the comments. I get that I maybe asking a lot of the camper. While it's an expensive task, I'm not ready for a full Earthroamer yet. I'm a hobbyist and have done a fair bit of fabrication, and it's hard for me to not just say Ef it, and build one myself. I don't have the time for that.

@photomike My plan for the diesel heater was redundancy. I think I can possibly use a coolant heater and add a heater core to the unit. Quick disconnects for water to recirculate with the engine heater. It would serve a dual purpose and allow engine heat to warm the unit while on the road. Honestly if my wife isn't with me (She likely won't go as often as me) I can skip a day of showering. I thought about Vans honestly, all in it's way easier but I need the truck for my Car Hobby, and some other things.

@Notsobigjoe Yeah you know my area then. Which way EJ? Anyway... That's a lot of what I was thinking. I've looked at some of the doors and such, and they're not robust enough or sealed totally. I honestly like sleeping in the cold so if the unit is in the 50's at night I'm ok with that, so long as the pipes are kept warm enough. I'm an Engineer and even thought if I could fabricate an air to air heat exchanger I could figure a way out to dry out the air some, we'll see. I need to step back sometimes and not spiral away into details.

In the end, no plan survives contact with the enemy, so it might be I just need to get one and see what works.

Thanks all.

[mkirsch]

You can only expect so much out of the couple of inches of insulation that they can stuff into the walls. For sure the heater is going to be running a LOT in a typical Upstate New York winter, if not constantly.

[notsobigjoe]

schlep1967 wrote:
4 seasons. Summer in Minnesota, spring and fall almost anywhere and winter in Florida. It will work in all four seasons.... as long as you use the wheels you have it mounted on properly.

There's a lot of truth to this statement. I don't think Lance ever intended there TC's to be used in artic weather. They are a beautiful camper and I love mine but survival was and is not in the 4 seasons plan.
Now, OP I'm commenting on my Lance 1181 and have no idea how your new 1172 will be as far as cold weather. My Lance did well after several upgrades that I got ideas from here on this forum and LOA.
There are six big holes in my camper. Large skylight over the tub, Exhaust fan over the stove, "dampener is useless". The Roof AC. The escape hatch over the bed. vent in the bathroom and kitchen area. Everything at camping world worked but increased the humidity by a lot.
Exhaust fan over stove. I taped some Styrofoam insulation over the outside after I wedged out the design of the outside vent. It worked!
the bedroom. I placed bath towels above the retractable screen to insulate and absorb moisture. This worked great until it broke the screen. Then I supported the towels with a simple dowel system used with shower rod holders. You'll have to replace the towels once a day before bed or they'll drip. Wring out the wet set and replace with dry, rinse repeat...
The tub skylight had an existing snap curtain that was hefty enough to support a nice chunk of the pink or blue Styrofoam. I leave one side unsnapped and the moisture will drain. This has never been a problem.
The AC was easy as well. I pulled off the bottom cover and stuffed some of these

https://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Panels-Soundproof-Insulation-Absorbing/dp/B07MCGRV7M/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=2TBTKR7F3MZKM&keywords=insulation%2Bpanels&qid=1683066607&sprefix=insulation%2B%2Caps%2C111&sr=8-2-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyNUZRMUdIWUhHUjhBJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzM0MzAxMTRWMFkwWlgwTjFZTiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDkxOTgwM0swT0o4OFBOOTY1RSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1

up through the opening and reinstalled the bottom cover. Worked great!!!
The two remaining roof vents have ceiling fans. Not much worked here so I also put some of the expanding foam in the dome on top and didn't mess with it till I got home.
Every other opening was covered with the blue insulation board inside the door. Water inlet, propane, both flip up storage doors, etc...
All of this stuff works well in Florida where I now live without stuffing the AC box off course.
You'll more than likely have to push heat to the bedroom and storage tanks with some kind of fan.
I have much much more but it will all be covered by others. I lived 25 years in Binghamton NY and know your part of the woods.
Joe

[schlep1967]

4 seasons. Summer in Minnesota, spring and fall almost anywhere and winter in Florida. It will work in all four seasons.... as long as you use the wheels you have it mounted on properly.

[3_tons]

The so called moniker of ‘4 Season’ is merely a marketing term used to move campers - Trust that’s it’s true meaning is in the eye of the unsuspecting beholder…

3 tons

[StirCrazy]

I kind of like the idea of adding a diesel heater providing you plumb it from the truck's tank so you don't have to carry jerry cans of diesel, and you make it so it heats the tank areas as well as the living area. this would be the best of both worlds, run out of propane you still have heat available, and while your driving you don't waist any propane