Ageing Snowbird Parks, Changing habits, preferences.

[pawatt]

Would like to see your observations, suggestions, likes and dislikes regarding some of the long existing snowbird parks.

[jrs1871]

This a very interesting discussion with many great observations about the changing of the guard. This is our 16th year of being a Winter Texan. When we first came we were some of the youngest, now we are slightly past the middle toward the older side. All of these years we have stayed at the same park, first in our RV driving back and forth, then a park model and now a mobile home. Our first couple of years we checked out virtually all of the RV parks reasonably close with the idea of moving. However when we considered all the pros and cons, we decided to stay put.
We like it that it is a mixed use park split into thirds among RV's, park models and mobile homes. That will change going forward as the park suffered significant flood damage in June that wiped out about 30% of the park. It is large enough to have many activities but small enough that you soon get to know most of the residents. When we first came we were more into the active pursuits but we are slowing down now. We didn't even consider shuffleboard for the first 5 or 6 years but now shuffle regularly as we like the competitiveness but also the friendships that we have developed.
I noticed that many of the younger respondents listed activities that interested them but few mentioned they were receptive to heading them up/starting them. We have struggled with that in our park; surveys list different activities folks would like offered but finding someone to take responsibility is very difficult. Although some of the old guard are pretty resistant to change, most are not; they just don't have the inclination or energy to take on another activity. We even have younger residents that never attend a park meeting and then when something takes place, they complain they didn't know about it.
So there is no simple answer. Both younger and older have to work to effect changes they would like to see.

[Scottiemom]

I know when my parents were first here 30 years ago, they did a lot of trips. There were casino trips to Louisiana and all kinds of trips into Mexico, to Monterey, etc. Then there were the fishing trips to South Padre. There are ZERO things like that now. We have done it on our own, but they all talk of those things in the past, but no one is interested in doing them now mainly because they have all done them.

Perhaps we can get the younger crowd interested.

Dale

[qtla9111]

Scottiemom wrote:
We are just down the road from you pawatt. My DH calls our park "assisted living." My parents were among the first residents, before it was even totally built, some 30 years ago. They had a 5th wheel they hauled back and forth. Eventually they bought a park model. When we arrived and decided to spend our winters here to "eldersit" we were the youngest in the park. It is mostly park models now, but we still full time and live in our motorhome. We bought 2 lots behind Mom and Dad and put up a canopy, then a cart shed, then a 12 x 28 "Texas" room (actually an efficiency apartment). The older residents complain that the younger ones don't want to work and they lament what is going to happen to their park. This is not true. We will work just as hard, but we don't want to play shuffleboard, pitch horseshoes or bake cookies for a jam we don't attend because the singing is soooooooo bad. We are trying to get other activities, but get voted out every time by the old guard who have been doing the same things for 30 years and don't see why we need to change anything. But all that is changing. The "old guard" sadly is dying out. My dad is gone, my mother at 93 just quit going this year, so dozens of properties have sold in the last year. Younger people are moving in and things are changing. The crowd is younger and they all want to work, play and have fun. Still mostly park models and that won't change. The old guard is not Canadian friendly, but the younger crowd is, so things are looking up. At one point we had said when my folks were gone, we would sell. We are going to sell Mom's place this winter, but we are keeping ours for now.

On our way down there now. In Baton Rouge visiting family, then heading to the valley. Anxious to get there. This will be our first winter in 12 years we have been "free" to do as we please.

Dale

I couldn't agree more. Up until November 2017, I was working off and on in Texas high schools. It was convenient for me to stay in rv parks versus hotels for all the obvious reasons. It worked out well but I have to say, when we go full time, I'm not sitting in a 55 and older rv park, at least not for very long.

The rvers are nice enough as well as the employees who manage the parks. However, they don't take kindly to younger people, single people, or any other minority. If you're not a regular, good luck getting in on any of the activities, you'll pretty much be shunned because it takes a while for people to get to know you before you can get in.

The activities are okay but I'm not for a potluck, ice cream whatever, card games, shuffleboard, wood shop, etc. I want to get out and live. I figure if I'm going to be retired I want to suck as much life as I can out of the next hopefully 20 or so years.

We enjoy our time in the RGV and South Padre because it is very close to our home in Mexico and we plan on continuing to take advantage of the parks. We have met some wonderful people from all parts of the world there.

[jdb7566]

We are in our third snowbirding season. The first year was a find and seek expedition, and we found an area in the coastal bend of Texas we liked. Last year we stayed in one spot from 12/1 through 4/1 and met some really nice people and are meeting them this year in the same spot. For me, the jury is out on staying in one spot for more than two weeks at a time. I have noticed, most are very friendly until they find out you are only staying a week or two, then they seem to back off and let you do your own thing, I have no issues with that. The best part about RVing, there is no right or wrong way, you just do your thing.

[Hankjoe]

I found this all very interesting as we have been going south for over 10 years or so and have noticed that like us many people are going from campground to campground and sightseeing. Although we do (if the campground has it) sometimes join in a pot luck or bingo that's not our main interest. What we have found is the last 2 years we have had difficulty finding campground spots. Previously (going in Jan & Feb) we could pretty much drive in and get a camping spot - not anymore we had to reserve ahead - and in our case "plan" more. It's just a fact of life = We've traveled in Florida & sometimes over to TX & AZ.
We've talked about "finding a spot" we'd want to stay for a month, but haven't.

[Snowman9000]

If I was running one of these, I might give free or reduced site rent to a few hand-selected go-getters who have the cruise-director personality. With the understanding that they are there to head up, promote, and recruit for the (hiking/crafting/pickleball/golf/happy hour/new resident/whatever) clubs. Try to keep a finger on the pulse of what activities people are participating in, and work those with enthusiastic leaders.

Once people make friends, they come back. That is a way more important factor than amenities. So, develop a strategy to enable people to make friends more easily. In addition to the usual huge events for everyone, I would try to organize some smaller mixer type events, like block parties. Maybe have a block captain or den mother, lol, whose mission is to organize a couple of these get-togethers each month. Sounds like hard work? Depends on the personality of the person doing it. Find the people who like to do it, and give them the help they need.

I think this would be a lot more cost-effective than trying to have the biggest, most-est amenities.

[Snowman9000]

I'm sure the business plan is to get park models up to the max percentage allowable under zoning laws. I think it's 90% in Arizona?

DW and I are heading out soon for our second year of staying in one place. We decided to rent a park model. It's just a nicer living experience. When in Rome....

We are on the younger side. Our age difference is more noticeable at some parks. But there are definitely parks which have more active lifestyles, even among the older residents. Palm Creek in Casa Grande is very active.

When you think about it, the amount of amenities in some of the big parks might be more about marketing than about actual demand and usage by residents. You get enthused about the huge list of things you might do there, and you pay a lot for that proposition. But in reality, you hang around with your neighbors, do a few things, and that's it. Around Casa Grande it's not uncommon to run into people who say, "We used to stay at Palm Creek. Then we realized we weren't using all that stuff, so why pay for it? Now we are at XYZ."

[2oldman]

pawatt wrote:

2oldman wrote:
Wifi that actually works.

From my experience Park WIFI rarely works, especially when park is busy. Best to have some type of cellular WIFI.

Yeah, no kidding.

[BarbaraOK]

Notice you left out the 1925-1945 generation and Generation X. They will also have an affect on how retirement is viewed.

[Thunder_Mountai]

You can't fight demographics. Years ago I was watching a show about the Greatest Generation. It said that WWII vets were dying at the rate of 10K a day. It is generally accepted that the last birth year of that generation is 1925. So, the youngest of them is 93. According to the Veterans Administration in 2016, there are only 620,000 WWII vets out of 16 million who served still living. That generation is the drying at the rate of 373 a day. That generation was responsible for the burgeoning retirement communities in AZ and FL we see today, as well as most of the RV parks we are using. Their tastes were the driving force behind RV design. When we first started RVing I used to comment that the interiors reminded me of my mother's house, all bright brass and froufrou.

Now, Boomers are turning 65 at the rate of 10K a day. Now, they are the driving force behind RV design and RV park amenities. Look at the new smaller RVs especially based on the Mercedes chassis. Instead of the usual golf cart parade in the late afternoon, we see a parade of walkers and bikers. The music in common areas in now 1970s rather than Big Band. We are also seeing many more vacant park models from the 1970s going for bargain prices.

So, lets fast forward. Millennials born between 1980 and 2000 number 83 million compared to the 75 million Boomers. When they start turning 65 at the rate of 10K per day, the RV industry, if there is still one, RV parks and retirement communities will have to undergo a dramatic change.

We hopefully have better than 10 years left on the road. Will be interesting to watch the changes.

[Scottiemom]

We are just down the road from you pawatt. My DH calls our park "assisted living." My parents were among the first residents, before it was even totally built, some 30 years ago. They had a 5th wheel they hauled back and forth. Eventually they bought a park model. When we arrived and decided to spend our winters here to "eldersit" we were the youngest in the park. It is mostly park models now, but we still full time and live in our motorhome. We bought 2 lots behind Mom and Dad and put up a canopy, then a cart shed, then a 12 x 28 "Texas" room (actually an efficiency apartment). The older residents complain that the younger ones don't want to work and they lament what is going to happen to their park. This is not true. We will work just as hard, but we don't want to play shuffleboard, pitch horseshoes or bake cookies for a jam we don't attend because the singing is soooooooo bad. We are trying to get other activities, but get voted out every time by the old guard who have been doing the same things for 30 years and don't see why we need to change anything. But all that is changing. The "old guard" sadly is dying out. My dad is gone, my mother at 93 just quit going this year, so dozens of properties have sold in the last year. Younger people are moving in and things are changing. The crowd is younger and they all want to work, play and have fun. Still mostly park models and that won't change. The old guard is not Canadian friendly, but the younger crowd is, so things are looking up. At one point we had said when my folks were gone, we would sell. We are going to sell Mom's place this winter, but we are keeping ours for now.

On our way down there now. In Baton Rouge visiting family, then heading to the valley. Anxious to get there. This will be our first winter in 12 years we have been "free" to do as we please.

Dale

[Padlin]

Being a newer retiree I know almost no one who snowbirds sitting in 1 campground. They are all traveling, maybe 2 weeks at a spot, then on to the next. Adventures seeing the country is more the idea as just avoiding the cold. AZ seems to be the biggest draw in the winter, some venture to Mexico. Public CG's, and boondocking are preferred. Many do Quartzsite for varying periods.

The folks I know travel in small trailers, that may have something to do with it. The big private southern campgrounds seem to cater to big semi permanent rigs.

Maybe when folks get even older and tire of traveling they will change to big RV's and opt for the sardine style private CG's.

[valhalla360]

We are now into the major flood of babyboomers retiring. I expect for the next 10yrs or so supply will struggle to keep up with demand. That will mean higher prices at well kept parks and marginally run parks turning a nice profit, so they won't have a lot of incentive to put time/money/effort into improvements.

After that with fewer new retirees coming into the system and babyboomers aging out of the more active life, you will likely see a glut as the newly expanded parks struggle to stay full. It will likely be turbulent at first as some parks react quickly and provide better services for less and other get run into the ground.

I think there is a transition to park models but it's not a new trend. New snowbirders tend to drive their RV down and stay for a shorter period to try it out. Once they get used to being away from home, as they age they are less comfortable driving the RV and find a park they like, they tend to stay longer and consider getting a park model which is more spacious and can stay put.

[coolmom42]

westernrvparkowner wrote:
I think the long term trend will be fewer full time RVers staying in one spot. Parks that are located near major cities and attractions will become more in favor. Winter destination areas like Southern Florida, Phoenix and Southern California will continue to be attractive. The losers are going to be South Texas and the Arizona Desert where the activities are concentrated within the parks themselves. Unless the parks in those type of areas offer major recreation like a golf course, a true fitness facility, resort style pools and an actual restaurant, they are probably going to struggle. I don't think a putting green, pot luck dinners, bingo, craft room and a pool table are going to be enough to draw the younger, active, mobile, and more affluent, future snowbirds.

As a potential first time snowbirder this winter (for just a month) I completely agree. I have friends at home. I have activities at home. My snowbirding is visiting a new place where I can see the attractions in the area. I'm not interested in being socially isolated from the rest of the world, with people older than me. Even if I stayed somewhere 4 months, and did somewhat socialize with people there, I'm not interested in the mainly sedentary activities for people old enough to be my parents. It might be nice to have a space where I could, for instance, set up my own sewing machine, or do some wood-working, but I don't need/want that planned for me.


And if I ever get bored enough to play bingo, just shoot me and put me out of my misery.

We do plan to spend a month in Arizona this winter, but have chosen a park that's in the desert and near hiking trails and national parks, not one in the city so we can sit around. Neither one of us has ever been to Arizona, so we plan to do a lot of day trips and maybe some overnights, using the RV park as home base.

[westernrvparkow]

I think the long term trend will be fewer full time RVers staying in one spot. Parks that are located near major cities and attractions will become more in favor. Winter destination areas like Southern Florida, Phoenix and Southern California will continue to be attractive. The losers are going to be South Texas and the Arizona Desert where the activities are concentrated within the parks themselves. Unless the parks in those type of areas offer major recreation like a golf course, a true fitness facility, resort style pools and an actual restaurant, they are probably going to struggle. I don't think a putting green, pot luck dinners, bingo, craft room and a pool table are going to be enough to draw the younger, active, mobile, and more affluent, future snowbirds.