Boondockers as nature lovers

[happycamper002]

No bias implied...but Rvers have the right to know.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/park-service-illegals-destroying-federal-lands-unsafe-for-camping/article/2619949


Not singling out any group, I think these areas that we ...as nature conservation advocates as most boondockers are, this article has significance.


http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/park-service-illegals-destroying-federal-lands-unsafe-for-camping/article/2619949

[happycamper002]

It's just another spin that's blowing smoke but no fire.
It doesn't take a social scientist to deduce sanity in your post.

No, Washington Post is not my primary source of information whether left or right wing leaning media outlet.

If you choose logic to color your argument...bring it on.

[fulltimedaniel]

happycamper002 wrote:

fulltimedaniel wrote:


. . . The reality is that all along the 1954 miles of the US Border with Mexico Hordes of undocumented people are NOT streaming over the border. The Arizona Republic reported that in 2015 170,000 people crossed the border that was ONE TENTH of the number that crossed ten years earlier in 2005. That may be too many but it is no where near the millions often quoted. And it has declined dramatically.

The bottom line is people have been sold a complete Bill of Goods on Fear Fear and more Fear. And that is what the article posted by the OP was about.

This comment carries a very obvious dichotomy.

In your previous post you seem to extol the argument that people crossing the border is an unavoidable event that should be left alone. . . and everything is just propaganda.

However, in your follow up you are contradicting your prior statement.

I posted the article without agenda...of course people are free to create their own conspiracy theories.

I posted it for the benefit to people who may not be aware of it.

Totally nonsensical to kill the messenger just because you did not expect what was in the message.

Well there really is no dichotomy in my posts. And no contradiction.

As for an agenda...the posting of that article with it's clear bias and inferred racism is by and of itself an agenda. A bias. Otherwise why post it? Would you have posted it if it didn't significantly represent your views and feelings? I think not. And if it did not then where was your counter argument against it?

If you goal was to truly enlighten then there are plenty of factual data out there on this issue from the Pew Research Center to major newspapers like the Arizona Republic and others. The source of this article was yours to make. And that tells the story.

And just to be VERY clear it is NOT YOU I am criticizing, it is your choice of source for your information and how that kind of skewed information affects this country negatively.

[happycamper002]

fulltimedaniel wrote:


. . . The reality is that all along the 1954 miles of the US Border with Mexico Hordes of undocumented people are NOT streaming over the border. The Arizona Republic reported that in 2015 170,000 people crossed the border that was ONE TENTH of the number that crossed ten years earlier in 2005. That may be too many but it is no where near the millions often quoted. And it has declined dramatically.

The bottom line is people have been sold a complete Bill of Goods on Fear Fear and more Fear. And that is what the article posted by the OP was about.

This comment carries a very obvious dichotomy.

In your previous post you seem to extol the argument that people crossing the border is an unavoidable event that should be left alone. . . and everything is just propaganda.

However, in your follow up you are contradicting your prior statement.

I posted the article without agenda...of course people are free to create their own conspiracy theories.

I posted it for the benefit to people who may not be aware of it.

Totally nonsensical to kill the messenger just because you did not expect what was in the message.

[fulltimedaniel]

TexasChaps wrote:

pnichols wrote:

fulltimedaniel wrote:
I spent 5 days in Big Bend National Park this year on my way to Tucson and later Alaska. Big Bend for those of you who do not know is on the US Mexico Border. You can walk right across the river from the cottonwood campground and be in Mexico. There is not even a fence (a good thing in a National park) Much of the best scenery you see from the Park actually is in Mexico. I saw absolutely no evidence of any incursion by anyone coming across this completely free and open border. In fact in my discussions with the Rangers about this the only problem they say they have is with UDB's as they call them Undocumented Bovines. Yes Cows from the Mexico side often wander across and into the cottonwood campground which is right on the river.

We've been through Big Bend once (but did not camp there) on a long RV trip through the Southeastern U.S.. Big Bend looked to be a beautiful and pristine desert wilderness park area to spend more time in.

I wonder what the reasons are for that area not being used more as an easy backcountry crossing point from Mexico into the U.S.??

two things.. people and rangers..

Well I really dont think so. First Big Bend is 1,252 Square Miles in area. People are thin on the ground. Even in Cottonwood Campground there are only 25 sites.

And Rangers are thinner yet and mostly clustered around visitor centers.

But we did keep an eye on those Undocumented Bovines...don't want them coming over and taking our Computer Programming jobs away from us.:)

The reality is that all along the 1954 miles of the US Border with Mexico Hordes of undocumented people are NOT streaming over the border. The Arizona Republic reported that in 2015 170,000 people crossed the border that was ONE TENTH of the number that crossed ten years earlier in 2005. That may be too many but it is no where near the millions often quoted. And it has declined dramatically.

The bottom line is people have been sold a complete Bill of Goods on Fear Fear and more Fear. And that is what the article posted by the OP was about.

[Naio]

Thanks, 2gypsies, that was very informative.

[2gypsies1]

pnichols wrote:

We've been through Big Bend once (but did not camp there) on a long RV trip through the Southeastern U.S.. Big Bend looked to be a beautiful and pristine desert wilderness park area to spend more time in.

I wonder what the reasons are for that area not being used more as an easy backcountry crossing point from Mexico into the U.S.??

Rugged terrain and distance.

Boquillas is the tiny poor town across the river where less than 200 people live. The nearest Mexican town to them is via a dirt road for 150 miles. Basically, the area is too difficult to get across and carry enough water. The people of Boquillas depend on the small national park store for their staples and from tourism from Big Bend visitors. The people live on very little but are gentle, happy people.

[TexasChaps]

pnichols wrote:

fulltimedaniel wrote:
I spent 5 days in Big Bend National Park this year on my way to Tucson and later Alaska. Big Bend for those of you who do not know is on the US Mexico Border. You can walk right across the river from the cottonwood campground and be in Mexico. There is not even a fence (a good thing in a National park) Much of the best scenery you see from the Park actually is in Mexico. I saw absolutely no evidence of any incursion by anyone coming across this completely free and open border. In fact in my discussions with the Rangers about this the only problem they say they have is with UDB's as they call them Undocumented Bovines. Yes Cows from the Mexico side often wander across and into the cottonwood campground which is right on the river.

We've been through Big Bend once (but did not camp there) on a long RV trip through the Southeastern U.S.. Big Bend looked to be a beautiful and pristine desert wilderness park area to spend more time in.

I wonder what the reasons are for that area not being used more as an easy backcountry crossing point from Mexico into the U.S.??

two things.. people and rangers..

[pnichols]

fulltimedaniel wrote:
I spent 5 days in Big Bend National Park this year on my way to Tucson and later Alaska. Big Bend for those of you who do not know is on the US Mexico Border. You can walk right across the river from the cottonwood campground and be in Mexico. There is not even a fence (a good thing in a National park) Much of the best scenery you see from the Park actually is in Mexico. I saw absolutely no evidence of any incursion by anyone coming across this completely free and open border. In fact in my discussions with the Rangers about this the only problem they say they have is with UDB's as they call them Undocumented Bovines. Yes Cows from the Mexico side often wander across and into the cottonwood campground which is right on the river.

We've been through Big Bend once (but did not camp there) on a long RV trip through the Southeastern U.S.. Big Bend looked to be a beautiful and pristine desert wilderness park area to spend more time in.

I wonder what the reasons are for that area not being used more as an easy backcountry crossing point from Mexico into the U.S.??

[Naio]

Thank you for bringing some reality into the conversation, fulltimedaniel.

[fulltimedaniel]

happycamper002 wrote:

nevadanick wrote:
All articles written are biased in one form or another. If there was no bias they would have nothing to write about.

Perfect summation.

I think I'll nominate you for Pulizer Prize for the best quote in the entire site.

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.”
- Voltaire,

Well I am about to take the Pulitzer away with some simple logic.

Some articles are based on FACT others are made up out of whole cloth still others use a shred of fact to link to a political agenda. Not all articles are "BIASED"

The source for this article should definitely raise red flags for anyone who cares about factual reporting.

I spent 5 days in Big Bend National Park this year on my way to Tucson and later Alaska. Big Bend for those of you who do not know is on the US Mexico Border. You can walk right across the river from the cottonwood campground and be in Mexico. There is not even a fence (a good thing in a National park) Much of the best scenery you see from the Park actually is in Mexico. I saw absolutely no evidence of any incursion by anyone coming across this completely free and open border. In fact in my discussions with the Rangers about this the only problem they say they have is with UDB's as they call them Undocumented Bovines. Yes Cows from the Mexico side often wander across and into the cottonwood campground which is right on the river.

Being able to separate fact from propaganda is essential.

[pnichols]

RedRocket204 wrote:
I would love to see a news agency concerned first about fact checking than rushing to break a story. It doesn't exist in today's world.

I suspect that the non-editorial sections of The Wall Street Journal stick pretty much to fact checking.

FWIW, I also suspect that most readers of anything prefer to read what they want to hear and deep down inside could care less about how much any facts are involved it it's written "just right".

The same thing goes for what people hear in speeches. It probably has something to do with the human psychic preferring to have it's eyes and ears tickled.

[RedRocket204]

Naio wrote:
Wow, I had heard that the goal of fascism is to discredit the entire concept of facts. But I had not seen that in action until now.

Facts being the key word here. I'm not saying this is what happened in the linked article... but it is all too common with today's media to not fact check, subsequently leading to reporting that is sensationalistic to "break the story first".

I would love to see a news agency concerned first about fact checking than rushing to break a story. It doesn't exist in today's world.

[nevadanick]

I am not discrediting anything or anyone. People write about what interests them, which is biased a certain direction. You just did.

[frizzen]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/31/signs-in-arizona-warn-of-smuggler-dangers/


https://i1.wp.com/ridermagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/ZbordersignIMG_1666.jpg?resize=620%2C338