Sad state of our National Parks-II

[Yosemite_Sam1]

Again, this is not political. It is to our interest as RVers and for Camping World business to have an outstanding national parks that usually provide the cheaper camping facilities and best places to visit and see.

Just recently been to one of the most popular national park and the results of funding cuts (7%), fund diversion ($22 million for the frivolous July 4 parade) and distorted priorities or even hostility towards the environment (area around Sequoia National Park are set to be opened for oil explorations).

The symptoms of these are all over. Campsites opening late, maintenance not being done, exodus of park rangers and unfilled positions. One very obvious situations on the two camps I've stayed are slots marked unavailable because it's inaccessible when a simple mini dozer could have graded the dirt road, closing of all toilets because of unapproved requisitions and requests for repairs of pipes for the water system...

I've written the top federal department responsible -- not even a form letter acknowledgement of my concerns.

Maybe if more of us...

[lane_hog]

DutchmenSport wrote:
And if the IRS is satisfied, then his business IS HIS business, not ours or anyone elses, any more than you'd want your financial shared to the public masses.

Exactly. If the IRS can't find anything, I'm not sure what the average voter or journalist will find in his tax returns.

But, Orange Man Bad...

If there's a way to responsibly extract oil & gas from public lands and have the royalties go towards NPS's infrastructure funding, I'm all for it. That's really no different than revenue from concessions, grazing, logging, or even hydro-electric plants that exist in NFS lands...

[lots2seeinmyrv]

DutchmenSport wrote:
A little off topic, but not meaning to be "political", but I just don't understand why everyone thinks Pres Trump is somehow skating on his taxes. With the financial revenues this guy deals with, he would most definitely be scrutinized by the Internal Revenue Service for audits and re-audits and re-re-re audits year after year after year. If he (or his financial wizards) can find and use tax credits, loop holes, and other ways to legally use all the available tax credits to HIS advantage, AND all this is already scrutinized by the IRS, then how can ANYONE question anything about his finances. Think about it folks? The more money one makes, the more you are scrutinized by the IRS. If all your ducks are NOT in order, they will find the errors and .... BELIEVE ME, I KNOW .... they will get their due money. If they don't .... they seize your assets. I saw my in-laws go through this from a horribly failed business venture they attempted and then tried to false report their income.

And a CHURCH I was attending years ago was under IRS scrutiny for the way their pastor was being paid and NOT being reported correct. They almost lost the church ... yes ... a church!

So while everyone is harping about how unethical or crooked Mr. Trump is, think about it folks .... He's not crooked. Actually, he's squeeky clean, coming through year, after year, after year financial audits BY the IRS. And if the IRS is satisfied, then his business IS HIS business, not ours or anyone elses, any more than you'd want your financial shared to the public masses. Think about it.

Sorry, I had to vent. This post may get deleted. I understand if it is.

x2...I agree.

He has Attorneys, Audits, CPA's, Accountants, Bookkeepers, and they will use every LEGAL tax code to the companies advantage, just like every company can in this country.

The politicians approved of these Tax Codes and loopholes and now want to bully him, LOL. What hypocrites.

The IRS will go after him if he falsified his taxes.

His taxes are not anybody's business. They should be kept private. If there is a problem, the IRS will audit and go after him. That is their job. Not the job of politicians demanding those returns, and not some Joe average citizen who "thinks" they know what taxes were paid or not. They just want to tear this person apart, find any dirt they can, and continue to obstruct and harass this person.

Wealthy people give billions of dollars to charity, hospitals, the arts, Churches, many charitable organizations who rely on those donations. Tax them 70% and those donations will dry up.

We do not have a tax problem.

We have a spending and waste problem.

[DutchmenSport]

A little off topic, but not meaning to be "political", but I just don't understand why everyone thinks Pres Trump is somehow skating on his taxes. With the financial revenues this guy deals with, he would most definitely be scrutinized by the Internal Revenue Service for audits and re-audits and re-re-re audits year after year after year. If he (or his financial wizards) can find and use tax credits, loop holes, and other ways to legally use all the available tax credits to HIS advantage, AND all this is already scrutinized by the IRS, then how can ANYONE question anything about his finances. Think about it folks? The more money one makes, the more you are scrutinized by the IRS. If all your ducks are NOT in order, they will find the errors and .... BELIEVE ME, I KNOW .... they will get their due money. If they don't .... they seize your assets. I saw my in-laws go through this from a horribly failed business venture they attempted and then tried to false report their income.

And a CHURCH I was attending years ago was under IRS scrutiny for the way their pastor was being paid and NOT being reported correct. They almost lost the church ... yes ... a church!

So while everyone is harping about how unethical or crooked Mr. Trump is, think about it folks .... He's not crooked. Actually, he's squeeky clean, coming through year, after year, after year financial audits BY the IRS. And if the IRS is satisfied, then his business IS HIS business, not ours or anyone elses, any more than you'd want your financial shared to the public masses. Think about it.

Sorry, I had to vent. This post may get deleted. I understand if it is.

[JRscooby]

Grodyman wrote:

While on the surface it seems unfair, and it may well be. But....how many jobs has Amazon created, and how much revenue has the government received via income tax on all of those jobs? You tax the businesses, maybe they cut jobs, then you lose the income tax on those jobs, so is it a wash? Don't know.

First, has Amazon created all that many jobs? Or just moved jobs from Brick and Mortar stores? And because of their power, the employees work harder for the same pay. And that level of pay often means the workers need government assistance to survive.

Also, Bezos probably pays taxes personally on his earnings, as does Trump.

Think we are discussing

Truth is, you need wealthy people to invest in businesses and corporations that create jobs. When you take away the incentive, jobs are lost and the system collapses (Socialism).

This is the myth that has developed since the '80s. I'm reasonably sure that if there is no demand for a good or service, there will be no investment in businesses or corporations to create new jobs. Instead the try to buy existing business, merger, cut costs (Workers). While Socialism is considered a foul word, if Capitalism is not regulated by Government, or IMHO better, strong unions, the wealth will be concentrated in fewer hands until the middle class is only people that used to be rich.

It is the middle class that gets the shaft, hence Trump. Trump is a middle class warrior. Dems and corporate Repubs fight for (exploit) the underclass and (for) the elite.

Can't touch this. Know that nobody could look past what is said, and at actions taken. And not just now, but back to the first business dealings.

I don't hate wealthy people, in a lot of cases it took generations to get to that point. I don't think it is reasonable for someone to immigrate to the US with no skill and no money to support themselves and their families, and in one generation, or even less, expect to be wealthy, and denounce those who have already accumulated some. Flame on.

Gman

No flames, but dare you to look at how many generations ago, and what the crime family brought with...

[Grodyman]

Yosemite Sam1 wrote:

JRscooby wrote:
Jeff Bezos is the worlds richest man with a net worth estimated at $165,000,000,000..

Never mind Bezos, Amazon with $10 B in income paid zero tax. And I should be happy, I'm a stockholder. But fair is fair.

Or Trump? How can IRS don't get a red flag when every year this "businessman' would have a loss of $1 billion year after year for 10 years to avoid income taxes.

As a first step, we can eliminate those tax loopholes for big business and the rich (I can incorporate myself and my vacation trip to Europe, disguised as meeting with a client, as tax deductible business expenses.

While on the surface it seems unfair, and it may well be. But....how many jobs has Amazon created, and how much revenue has the government received via income tax on all of those jobs? You tax the businesses, maybe they cut jobs, then you lose the income tax on those jobs, so is it a wash? Don't know.

Also, Bezos probably pays taxes personally on his earnings, as does Trump.

Truth is, you need wealthy people to invest in businesses and corporations that create jobs. When you take away the incentive, jobs are lost and the system collapses (Socialism).

It is the middle class that gets the shaft, hence Trump. Trump is a middle class warrior. Dems and corporate Repubs fight for (exploit) the underclass and (for) the elite.

I don't hate wealthy people, in a lot of cases it took generations to get to that point. I don't think it is reasonable for someone to immigrate to the US with no skill and no money to support themselves and their families, and in one generation, or even less, expect to be wealthy, and denounce those who have already accumulated some. Flame on.

Gman

[Yosemite_Sam1]

JRscooby wrote:
Jeff Bezos is the worlds richest man with a net worth estimated at $165,000,000,000..

Never mind Bezos, Amazon with $10 B in income paid zero tax. And I should be happy, I'm a stockholder. But fair is fair.

Or Trump? How can IRS don't get a red flag when every year this "businessman' would have a loss of $1 billion year after year for 10 years to avoid income taxes.

As a first step, we can eliminate those tax loopholes for big business and the rich (I can incorporate myself and my vacation trip to Europe, disguised as meeting with a client, as tax deductible business expenses.

[BillyBob_Jim]

I have a mibrain headache from this thread.

[JRscooby]

tomman58 wrote:


Sorry but it isn't 2011 anymore and today we are going a TRILLION more in debt annually because of the "new and improved" tax codes.

Yes, but until I retired 100% of my income was taxed at the rate paid by people like me, that work for money. Now a lot of my income comes from money working for me, and is taxed at a lower rate. And my income is not near high enough for the new codes to help. And if I was still working my rate would of gone up with the new codes.

As much as we see most of the USA each year, yes each year we go at least half way and on the off years we go to LV and AZ from Michigan and then down and across to FL. Sorry but there is one heck of a lot of poverty that is evident especially in the southern states. We are saddened in Fl because we are there the longest and each month we give heavily to the food bank in our camping area. There really is no good reason for this in our country. I also hate Wallmart and others that do not pay a proper wage for a person to live on yet reap billions each year in profits. I guess that is me but from my drivers seat we have been there done that often enough to know this country needs to do better.

My point is if the high people that owned the high profit business paid rates like they did in the '50s (When the middle class was growing) the owners might think something like if I put this extra $100,000 in my bank account, I will have to pay uncle $90,000. Might as well give the employees a little raise.
I know at the end of a good year I have bought extra tires, so can take the deduction now.

westernrvparkowner wrote:


It is a simple fact that you cannot run up any debt unless you spend, period. The US Government spends 11 Billion dollars every single day. Jeff Bezos is the worlds richest man with a net worth estimated at $165,000,000,000. If you could turn him upside down and shake the last dime out of his pockets he could fund the government for 15 days. Then what?
Want to tax his income? Great, only problem is he doesn't have any. His wealth is Amazon stock. It doesn't pay a dividend. He would only show income if he sells some shares and if he wanted to avoid a punitive tax he could get billions in cash by borrowing at any bank and using some shares as collateral.

Well back in the early '90s I had a bad year. I had receipts proving that I had spent more money on my trucks had grossed. My accountant and I spent most of a day explaining that in the course of a year I ate 2 antique El Comminos.

So the logical answer would be to tax wealth. Only problem is the wealth of billionaires is tied up in investments. They are not like Scrooge McDuck and have their wealth in cash stashed in vaults. To get the cash to pay those wealth taxes they will have to sell those investments. Problem there is the potential buyer pool is other rich people who are also looking to sell for cash, not buy.

So what happens when we give them a tax cut? There is no more demand for most goods and services, they don't want it in a bank or mattress, so they bid up the price of stocks, so the press thinks, or at least reports "the economy is booming", even when a lot of full time workers can not bring home enough to pay both rent and student loans

Proper and fair taxation alone will never come close to being a panacea, spending MUST also be addressed.

You might be right, but if we had proper and fair taxation, then maybe the majority of people would have a say in adjusting the country's priorities.

[Yosemite_Sam1]

D.E.Bishop wrote:
Wow, am I surprised that with 11 pages of postings that this is not a political discussion nor are there are any personal attacks, or are there...

I'm sorry but what's being discussed is economics, not totally politics, and may be relevant to the topic. Good revenue generation and priorities by the government could translate to better funding for national parks and forest for which we camp.

Here is my 2-cents work from my studies and practice, non academic, of economics.

They to our country's prosperity was when the capitalists and industrialists Fords realized that for the products to be afforded and sold by the masses, they would have to pay them adequate salaries. And that's the start of our strong middle class having both a house and a car in the garage.

Tax cuts for the the middle class is best for the economy as the additional money is cycled back in the virtuous cycle of consumer buying, company expansion-investments and hiring.

Tax cuts for the already rich and corporations, so called trickle dow or Reaganomics, not as much. Rich tend to spend the money elsewhere, bigger yacht (usually made in Korea), Italian marble for their homes or a new vacation property in the South of France.

Before we attack spending for the poor, for every $1 we spend in food programs, it translates into $1.78 in added economic activities, again, in that virtuous economic cycle.

[lots2seeinmyrv]

We do not have a "tax" problem.

We have a spending problem and the monumental waste, fraud, and abuse of taxpayer dollars. Fraud in the billions every year.

Trillions of dollars spent on never ending wars. OUR money that should be spent rebuilding this country and our inner-cities.

And we need to stop being the ATM machine for the world. They need to stand on their own two feet, solve their problems, and prosper.

We need term limits and line item veto the budget, it is out of control.

Tax us all 75%...they will still overspend and now bankrupt us with the cries for "free" stuff. It is not free.

[westernrvparkow]

tomman58 wrote:

JRscooby wrote:

Charlie D. wrote:


From the tax foundation: "In 2016, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 3 percent. The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (37.3 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (30.5 percent).Nov 13, 2018"

Well, I bet if until the year 2011, when I retired, if the top 10% of highest income paid the same percentage of their income in taxes as I did, the budgets would look much different.
It is the people that make enough to buy everything they need, and some of what they want, and do it with time left over to enjoy what the have that makes the economy grow. Take a many that has enough to buy anything he wants, and give him more. He is not going to buy more things people make, he has everything. And the only service he will add to what he already buys is he will buy a politician, and ads to convince voters they should pay more taxes, or go without the best government services, but he pays enough...

Sorry but it isn't 2011 anymore and today we are going a TRILLION more in debt annually because of the "new and improved" tax codes.

As much as we see most of the USA each year, yes each year we go at least half way and on the off years we go to LV and AZ from Michigan and then down and across to FL. Sorry but there is one heck of a lot of poverty that is evident especially in the southern states. We are saddened in Fl because we are there the longest and each month we give heavily to the food bank in our camping area. There really is no good reason for this in our country. I also hate Wallmart and others that do not pay a proper wage for a person to live on yet reap billions each year in profits. I guess that is me but from my drivers seat we have been there done that often enough to know this country needs to do better.

It is a simple fact that you cannot run up any debt unless you spend, period. The US Government spends 11 Billion dollars every single day. Jeff Bezos is the worlds richest man with a net worth estimated at $165,000,000,000. If you could turn him upside down and shake the last dime out of his pockets he could fund the government for 15 days. Then what?
Want to tax his income? Great, only problem is he doesn't have any. His wealth is Amazon stock. It doesn't pay a dividend. He would only show income if he sells some shares and if he wanted to avoid a punitive tax he could get billions in cash by borrowing at any bank and using some shares as collateral.
So the logical answer would be to tax wealth. Only problem is the wealth of billionaires is tied up in investments. They are not like Scrooge McDuck and have their wealth in cash stashed in vaults. To get the cash to pay those wealth taxes they will have to sell those investments. Problem there is the potential buyer pool is other rich people who are also looking to sell for cash, not buy. So now you either have limited the buying pool to foreign billionaires and countries like China or have the stock market crash to such a low level that the prices are so low that the non rich can buy. Problem there is any investable money the non rich have is likely in things like IRAs, 401Ks and other investments whose values have crashed because all the rich are being forced to sell. So the non rich are net losers right along with those evil rich people.
And this doesn't even account for all the people who will lose great jobs due to these evil rich being forced to cut back. Blue Origin is one example. It is a pet project of Bezos that seeks to be a private space exploration company. It employs over 2000 people, many highly skilled and highly paid. It loses vast amounts of money and is basically an expensive Bezos hobby. Force him to scramble for cash, it is likely one of the first things to be shut down, moving those 2000 plus employees from the taxpayer category to the recipient category increasing government spending and lowering actual tax revenues.
Proper and fair taxation alone will never come close to being a panacea, spending MUST also be addressed.

[D_E_Bishop]

Wow, am I surprised that with 11 pages of postings that this is not a political discussion nor are there are any personal attacks, or are there...

[tomman58]

JRscooby wrote:

Charlie D. wrote:


From the tax foundation: "In 2016, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 3 percent. The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (37.3 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (30.5 percent).Nov 13, 2018"

Well, I bet if until the year 2011, when I retired, if the top 10% of highest income paid the same percentage of their income in taxes as I did, the budgets would look much different.
It is the people that make enough to buy everything they need, and some of what they want, and do it with time left over to enjoy what the have that makes the economy grow. Take a many that has enough to buy anything he wants, and give him more. He is not going to buy more things people make, he has everything. And the only service he will add to what he already buys is he will buy a politician, and ads to convince voters they should pay more taxes, or go without the best government services, but he pays enough...

Sorry but it isn't 2011 anymore and today we are going a TRILLION more in debt annually because of the "new and improved" tax codes.

As much as we see most of the USA each year, yes each year we go at least half way and on the off years we go to LV and AZ from Michigan and then down and across to FL. Sorry but there is one heck of a lot of poverty that is evident especially in the southern states. We are saddened in Fl because we are there the longest and each month we give heavily to the food bank in our camping area. There really is no good reason for this in our country. I also hate Wallmart and others that do not pay a proper wage for a person to live on yet reap billions each year in profits. I guess that is me but from my drivers seat we have been there done that often enough to know this country needs to do better.

[JRscooby]

Charlie D. wrote:


From the tax foundation: "In 2016, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers paid 97 percent of all individual income taxes, while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 3 percent. The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (37.3 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (30.5 percent).Nov 13, 2018"

Well, I bet if until the year 2011, when I retired, if the top 10% of highest income paid the same percentage of their income in taxes as I did, the budgets would look much different.
It is the people that make enough to buy everything they need, and some of what they want, and do it with time left over to enjoy what the have that makes the economy grow. Take a many that has enough to buy anything he wants, and give him more. He is not going to buy more things people make, he has everything. And the only service he will add to what he already buys is he will buy a politician, and ads to convince voters they should pay more taxes, or go without the best government services, but he pays enough...

[Grodyman]

tomman58 wrote:

Grodyman wrote:

tomman58 wrote:
We see our national parks being sold off to oil rigs in pristine lands, oil and mining being sold in our other parks, coal runoff being put back in our streams, air quality under attack and climate change being ignored. The parks are ours not any particular administration. Any monies gathered by making our enviroment worse should be dumped back into the parks it is the least the thieves of the public could do.

A Duramax Diesel and a giant trailer, a full tank of diesel and a Honda gas generator....and you complain about “climate change.”

Stop preaching and walk the walk.

I guess you don't know that diesels are greener than everything but electric and there are no 2500 electrics...yet. My giant trailer weighs far less than most 5ers. The Honda genny uses far less fuel than other gennys. So enough on the soap box stuff.
Yep I complain about a government ignoring climate change and my use of a few hundred gallons of diesel each year likely doesn't compare to you going to work.

You can justify your hypocrisy any way you like. Fossil fuel is fossil fuel, and if you believe in man caused "climate change" then you should give yours up, not try and give yourself a pass and state that your use is less than someone else's when you can't possibly know. Why wait for the government to come along and make you give yours up?

Leftists: Fossil Fuels equal Global Warming

You: Giant trailer with diesel engine and gasoline electric power.

I know you are offended, and you will probably come on here and say something stupid again like "my giant trailer weighs less than most 5ers" to convince yourself that you are somehow doing your part to fight "climate change," but deep down, you know your are a hypocrite.