ATV riders stand up BLM in Utah

[Bakersfield]

story found here: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/10/utah-residents-become-next-to-confront-bureau-land-manage...

Perhaps this will trigger more BLM land opening up to ATVs. I never understood why hikers and horses are permitted, but not ATVs.

[allcool]

nayther wrote:
bobx2,

you have no idea what I've seen or what I do for OHV access, I asked not to be flamed, ie not get personal and you did just that. as I stated this is my experience in the desert, OHV parks and National Forests in and around CA. I won't bother to go into my activeness in this arena beyond that but those that know me know I speak the truth and am constantly working with BLM, NFS, etc. on access issues.

I cannot speak for Colorado either.

This thread is degrading into personal attacks so I'm done. I'll just leave it at that.

Nayther, don't take it that personal. This is a forum, and you can't post on a controversial subject like this, then request, and expect no one will give their emotional response... It really shows the main problem we are all facing.

Maybe if you are so connected in the 'fight' and truly want to keep access open for all of us, then maybe try not to isolate individual groups as the bad guys, as you have above.

We are all off roaders, all of the groups do there part to get land closed.Yes maybe some more than others, maybe that changes from area to area, idk. But I do know, We ALL need to present a uniform front if WE are going to win battles and the war...

Oh, by the way, in response too your post, of me not being educated because I ride a utv, and atv,,, although I am not a DR, I have a ME degree. Actually the more I think about your post, you're lucky you didn't get more flamed.

Take a page out of the Glamis win. In your way of looking at things the biggest offenders, the big $100,000, 1000hp sand cars and high powered SxS, that rip up the land the most by far, are the ones that lead the battle. Many are attorneys and wealthy owners, that funded the fight, and fought the battles... keep that in mind before you isolate any one group...

jmo

[Bakersfield]

The infighting is killing us. One day you will wake up and everything will be closed. At that point it really does not matter who caused it; the fact is you did not nothing to prevent it. "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke). Closing public land is pure evil.

Everyone (hikers, motorcycles, horses, ATV, SXS, 4x4, mountain bikes, etc) have an impact on the land. What we need are ideas and solutions:
Perhaps, we require everyone that use public land to take a "Leave no Trace" class.
Perhaps, we need more Rangers to enforce laws on already on the books.
Perhaps, we need to really increase the fines, penalties, jail time and take rides away.
Perhaps, we increase taxes and increase user fees to pay for enforcement.
Perhaps, we increase the CCC program, build new trails, and repair the old ones.
Perhaps, we get the media involved and invite them on a ride-a-long.
Perhaps, we hit up all the manufactures of motor sports and form a PAC.
Perhaps, .... Insert idea here.

[BoonHauler]

nayther wrote:


This thread is degrading into personal attacks so I'm done. I'll just leave it at that.

This will be our biggest hurdle to get over and I hate too say it but I don't think we'll beable too......:(

Our Public Land will continue to be closed at an alarming rate because of it.

[nayther]

bobx2,

you have no idea what I've seen or what I do for OHV access, I asked not to be flamed, ie not get personal and you did just that. as I stated this is my experience in the desert, OHV parks and National Forests in and around CA. I won't bother to go into my activeness in this arena beyond that but those that know me know I speak the truth and am constantly working with BLM, NFS, etc. on access issues.

I cannot speak for Colorado either.

This thread is degrading into personal attacks so I'm done. I'll just leave it at that.

[bobx2]

Mmaxed wrote:

bobx2 wrote:

nayther wrote:
A prime example of everyone working together is the Sequoia National Forest. Stewards of the Sequoia.

They have an awesome trail system and some wilderness areas too. Trails are multiple use with hikers, equestrian, mountain bikes and motorcycles. Very few ATV trails though as that makes the trails too wide.

Makes the trails too wide for what??? Is a single track less noticeable than a double track?



"nayther wrote:
BRAVO TO YOU BOTH! I keep harping on education but can only reach those that are organized or follow boards such as this, many do not. I'm not picking on ATV's or UTV's but unfortunately they are, by percentage, the less "educated" in land use issues. Anyone can jump on an ATV or drive a UTV but it takes some skill to ride a motorcycle and we see a greater percentage of motorcyclists are educated than the others."



More skill and better educated if you ride a two wheeler?? Hahahahahaha. You are priceless. Make a statement like that, and then beg to not be flamed for it. That is about the most uneducated post in this thread, and the same mentality that makes bikers think that they don't tear up trails. Have you EVER seen a bike that wasn't throwing up a roost behind it? Clueless...

Nayther is right according to what we see here. The single track trails don't get shortcut, trashed and messed up like the ATV trails. Responsible ATVers have tried to get a club going, but the slobs don't join any way. May be true for bikers also but the trail conditions tell otherwise. Rode some ATV trails last year that you couldn't tell where the trail was supposed to be. It would split, then in a few hundred yards split again. Only places there was just one trail was where that was the only passage. Almost never see trash on single track. Sometimes we nearly run out of room to carry back all we see on ATV trails.

Don't know where you guys are, but just the opposite is the case around these parts. The bikes just take off from the trails and ride where ever they want. Easy to see where they went because the rear tire is always spinning and tearing it up. As for trash, there are pigs in all groups. Not a huge issue here, but any at all is too much.

[Mmaxed]

bobx2 wrote:

nayther wrote:
A prime example of everyone working together is the Sequoia National Forest. Stewards of the Sequoia.

They have an awesome trail system and some wilderness areas too. Trails are multiple use with hikers, equestrian, mountain bikes and motorcycles. Very few ATV trails though as that makes the trails too wide.

Makes the trails too wide for what??? Is a single track less noticeable than a double track?



"nayther wrote:
BRAVO TO YOU BOTH! I keep harping on education but can only reach those that are organized or follow boards such as this, many do not. I'm not picking on ATV's or UTV's but unfortunately they are, by percentage, the less "educated" in land use issues. Anyone can jump on an ATV or drive a UTV but it takes some skill to ride a motorcycle and we see a greater percentage of motorcyclists are educated than the others."



More skill and better educated if you ride a two wheeler?? Hahahahahaha. You are priceless. Make a statement like that, and then beg to not be flamed for it. That is about the most uneducated post in this thread, and the same mentality that makes bikers think that they don't tear up trails. Have you EVER seen a bike that wasn't throwing up a roost behind it? Clueless...

Nayther is right according to what we see here. The single track trails don't get shortcut, trashed and messed up like the ATV trails. Responsible ATVers have tried to get a club going, but the slobs don't join any way. May be true for bikers also but the trail conditions tell otherwise. Rode some ATV trails last year that you couldn't tell where the trail was supposed to be. It would split, then in a few hundred yards split again. Only places there was just one trail was where that was the only passage. Almost never see trash on single track. Sometimes we nearly run out of room to carry back all we see on ATV trails.

[Bumpyroad]

mustangglp wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqL2qZ3YsMg

Its kind of dumb to blame the tool when it really the people to blame?
Here is a good example of your typical RV er

as old whats his name sez, you can't fix stupid.
bumpy

[mustangglp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqL2qZ3YsMg

Its kind of dumb to blame the tool when it really the people to blame?
Here is a good example of your typical RV er

[bobx2]

nayther wrote:
A prime example of everyone working together is the Sequoia National Forest. Stewards of the Sequoia.

They have an awesome trail system and some wilderness areas too. Trails are multiple use with hikers, equestrian, mountain bikes and motorcycles. Very few ATV trails though as that makes the trails too wide.

Makes the trails too wide for what??? Is a single track less noticeable than a double track?



"nayther wrote:
BRAVO TO YOU BOTH! I keep harping on education but can only reach those that are organized or follow boards such as this, many do not. I'm not picking on ATV's or UTV's but unfortunately they are, by percentage, the less "educated" in land use issues. Anyone can jump on an ATV or drive a UTV but it takes some skill to ride a motorcycle and we see a greater percentage of motorcyclists are educated than the others."



More skill and better educated if you ride a two wheeler?? Hahahahahaha. You are priceless. Make a statement like that, and then beg to not be flamed for it. That is about the most uneducated post in this thread, and the same mentality that makes bikers think that they don't tear up trails. Have you EVER seen a bike that wasn't throwing up a roost behind it? Clueless...

[Bedlam]

Maybe the key to what is being posted is that members in organized groups that share information typically have more awareness of land use issues than individuals. Unfortunately, a single individual can cause closure action if they abuse the area which is why reaching out to other riders is so important.

[nayther]

The Texan wrote:

nayther wrote:


BRAVO TO YOU BOTH! I keep harping on education but can only reach those that are organized or follow boards such as this, many do not. I'm not picking on ATV's or UTV's but unfortunately they are, by percentage, the less "educated" in land use issues. Anyone can jump on an ATV or drive a UTV but it takes some skill to ride a motorcycle and we see a greater percentage of motorcyclists are educated than the others. We really need to educate everyone on the damage they are doing to our sport by illegal access.

And please don't flame me, I like ATVs and UTVs just my personal preference is two wheels. I know most on this board that have more than two wheels in the dirt are responsible users.

Please come out to our area and "educate" the motorcyclist on trail etiquette and responsible riding. They are by far the worst offenders in this neck of the woods and anyone here will vouch for that. Anytime the county takes USFS or BLM to court over illegal closures, the prime example used in all court cases by BOTH federal agencies are the motorcyclist. Yes, every group needs to be "properly" educated, but please don't set there and point fingers, paint everyone else as the bad guy and then pat your group on the back as the good guy that does NO damage.

Sorry, I can only speak for my experience in CA, never ridden in TX. Here two wheelers tend to be more organized and belong to clubs/groups or maybe that's just my limited experience. I just know that when I go to an "OHV park" I see the idiots on quads mostly that have no idea what they're doing, don't see that on motorcycles. As I said don't flame me, I'm not putting one above the other, just what I see and hear. And yes, I am connected with this stuff, way too connected, just ask my DW!

[BoonHauler]

Bakersfield wrote:
"Access for each individual group with designated trails, equally distributed, is a fair, unselfish, solution."

That is the quote of the day. All groups need to come together with one voice and pressure the politicians to keep public lands open and accessible.

Bakersfield, best post in the entire thread.

The only way we the people are going to stop this unprecedented land grab by the Feds is for us to unite under one banner!

Goggle "Wildlands Project".....it's being done by radical environmentists....:M

garry owen wrote:

i can remember as young lad going to the forest and seeing signs saying;" national forest, land of many uses". i can't remember when i last saw one.

Garry, I too remember seeing the signs you're referencing, Havn't seen any them lately. I don't think that's in their 'Mission Statement' anymore.

The only signs I see now are 'Public Lands, Keep Out'

[Bakersfield]

"Access for each individual group with designated trails, equally distributed, is a fair, unselfish, solution."

That is the quote of the day. All groups need to come together with one voice and pressure the politicians to keep public lands open and accessible.

[coolbreeze01]

Sierra Clubbers on horseback with their paid packers, have done way more damage to wilderness areas than hikers, or people riding quads or side x sides would. The laws and management are ridiculous.

[The_Texan]

nayther wrote:


BRAVO TO YOU BOTH! I keep harping on education but can only reach those that are organized or follow boards such as this, many do not. I'm not picking on ATV's or UTV's but unfortunately they are, by percentage, the less "educated" in land use issues. Anyone can jump on an ATV or drive a UTV but it takes some skill to ride a motorcycle and we see a greater percentage of motorcyclists are educated than the others. We really need to educate everyone on the damage they are doing to our sport by illegal access.

And please don't flame me, I like ATVs and UTVs just my personal preference is two wheels. I know most on this board that have more than two wheels in the dirt are responsible users.

Please come out to our area and "educate" the motorcyclist on trail etiquette and responsible riding. They are by far the worst offenders in this neck of the woods and anyone here will vouch for that. Anytime the county takes USFS or BLM to court over illegal closures, the prime example used in all court cases by BOTH federal agencies are the motorcyclist. Yes, every group needs to be "properly" educated, but please don't set there and point fingers, paint everyone else as the bad guy and then pat your group on the back as the good guy that does NO damage.