How to increase payload?

[shadows4]

I have a 2015 Coachmen 324 TSRK, it has a dismal 1284 lbs of payload. It has 5200 lb axles. It was one of only two models produced by Coachmen that year that 7000 lb axles were not an available option. I know I cannot change the rating on the yellow payload sticker. But what would be the harm in changing the axles, springs, brakes with 7000 lb axles, springs and brakes? Would I be safely increasing my payload? What about just changing the bearings to 6000 lb bearings? It it my understanding the only difference between the 5200 and 6000 lb axles is the outer bearing? Thanks in advance.

[StirCrazy]

joebedford wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:
I had to do a special "house trailer" endorsment, which is a rv version of a heavy tow endorsment because the gvwr of my rv was over 10400lbs.

I'm in Ontario and I had to get a full commercial driver's license because my GCWR was over the limit. Because I took the road test with my RV, the license was restricted to my RV (I wasn't allowed to drive a semi).

ya here we have two different endorsments you can get, one is called a heavy tow and is comercial so you have to redo it every so often and medicals and all that jazz, the other is called a house trailer endorsment. same training and testing just I never have to redo it, but it only applies to rv's. I can go hauling 18000lbs on a flat deck behind my f350 with it. that would require the heavy tow endorsment.

Steve

[valhalla360]

JIMNLIN wrote:

time2roll wrote:
Load it up ready to go and put it on a scale. May need more or less than you think.

X2.
Get'r weighed.
This is the only way a vehicles actual payload can be found. Your trailer has 5200 lb axles = 10400 lbs on the axles at a max.
Don't assume the trailers frame can or cannot take higher rated axles. My first 5th wheel rv trailer mfg used the same higher rated axles on three different gvwr trailers.

Keep in mind, the GVWR includes the pin weight (typically 20-25% for a 5er), so the GVWR may be significantly more than the 10400lb axle ratings.

It's the weak link that determines the overall rating...unless there is an identical unit with the higher rated axles, you won't know if the frame can handle it and good luck getting the manufacturer to confirm if it can be. They have no interest in you mucking it up and coming back to blame them.

But yeah, go get her weighed ready for travel to see what you are really dealing with.

[joebedford]

StirCrazy wrote:
I had to do a special "house trailer" endorsment, which is a rv version of a heavy tow endorsment because the gvwr of my rv was over 10400lbs.

I'm in Ontario and I had to get a full commercial driver's license because my GCWR was over the limit. Because I took the road test with my RV, the license was restricted to my RV (I wasn't allowed to drive a semi).

[StirCrazy]

JIMNLIN wrote:

Someone asked about legal issues regarding payloads. There are no legal issues regarding payload numbers. Those numbers aren't on the trailer or registration papers.
What a size and weight officer looks at is the trailers (the size axles in question) gawrs/tire load ratings. I've had more than one officer crawl under a trailer and check for the axle rating number on the metal id tag.

actyaly the nubers are on the rv sticker. maybe not payload but gvwr. if your increasing your payload capacity normaly you are increasing the gvwr. here in BC they go by that number to determin if your over loaded, although you wont get stoped for that unless you look very overloaded, and also for your drivers licence endorsment. I had to do a special "house trailer" endorsment, which is a rv version of a heavy tow endorsment because the gvwr of my rv was over 10400lbs. I find it interesting the differences in how different states apply laws to things as well as different provences in Canada.

[JIMNLIN]

My email from Dexter on 5.2k to 6k to 7k Dexster axle brakes;

Dexter email;
Your online website says; "The Gross Axle Weight Rating (GAWR) of your running gear is determined by the lowest rated component in the assembly. The capacity of the wheel, tire, axle, brake, springs/rubber and hub are all considered." However the 5.2k/6k and 7k axles show 12" x 2" brakes. What is the determining brake spec differences in those three axle ratings ? I've looked at Dexters online brake part specs and see different part numbers but that doesn't say the 6k axle brakes have more braking performance than the 5.2k axle brakes. Thanks....xxx

Mr. xxx,
While the 5.2, 6 & 7K brakes are all 12x2 in size they do have different lining material, magnets and reinforcement of the metal backing plates. Thanks ......Jim Miller / Dexter Axle
......................................................

Someone asked about legal issues regarding payloads. There are no legal issues regarding payload numbers. Those numbers aren't on the trailer or registration papers.
What a size and weight officer looks at is the trailers (the size axles in question) gawrs/tire load ratings. I've had more than one officer crawl under a trailer and check for the axle rating number on the metal id tag.

I carry a 7060- 7240 lb blue tractor on a bumper pull 18' 10k car hauler with 5200 lb axles/ load E tires.... with 8800-9200 lbs on the trailers axles depending on which attachments (fel/bb/7' mower) is on the tractor.
The tractor looks big ( tall above the deck) with 52" tall tires when sitting on the short trailer.
Dot stops me checking for break away hook up and tie downs. He did look at the tire load ratings and the trailers tagged gawrs...and asked if I have weighed the rig. I showed him my CAT scale ticket. He says the axle tire load number look good ...thanked me for being 100 percent legal on the tie downs/brake away system and says have a good day.
Never a word about a payload numbers or a gvwr number.

[lenr]

Suggestions for OP based on my story below:
Definitely get new, whole, 6000 springs as stated above. Consider upgrading the axle tube wall thickness as RV industry uses the lightest, cheapest, wall thickness (3” tube comes in 3 thicknesses from Dexter.) If the hub is actually the same for 6000 lb consider using 7000 lb backing plate if you are having any lack of trailer brake effort. X2 on wet bolts and heavy links. If the trailer uses 10” I beams in the frame, I would not worry about carrying more weight. You might compare your trailer to the closest current model to see what the current GVWR is.

My story:
We ordered a Coachman Chaparral 336TSIK in the spring of 2019. At that time the 2020 models used 5100 lb axles for the 4 “Lite” models and the two shortest “mid-profile” models (including our 336TSIK.) The 6 heavier, longer, trailers all used 7000 lb axles. Of the 12 models ours was rated the lowest of cargo capacity at 1480 (12,000 gross – 10,520 unloaded.) I asked the dealer to see if the factory would put on 6,000 lb axles. The answer was they can’t because all trailers must be manufactured standard per NHTSA. I took the trailer straight from the dealer to the axle shop via a CAT scale. The CAT showed empty weight of 10,780 leaving 1,220 for cargo, which is totally ridiculous for a 37’ fifth wheel trailer. So, I had the axle shop install Dexter 6,000 lb axles with Kodiak 6,000 lb disk brakes. For the 2022 model year Coachmen started putting 7,000 lb axles on the 336TSIK increasing GVWR to 13,500. Curious, I contacted engineering with my VIN to ask if they also upgraded the frame from mine—answer was no change to frame, just the axles. I also upgraded the tires from stock 235/80R16 to 235/85R16 to get the additional weight rating. We load pretty heavy—on last check we were a little over 13,500.

[Retired_JSO]

I know of no requirement of a GVWR sticker on any trailer in any state. The reason I say this, I’ve built 2 trailers years back. I inscribed a FLT number assigned by the state and it was inspected at the Local Tax Collectors office. It had to be weighed but that was for the trailer weight used to establish the tag and title cost.
Some states like NY make you jump through hoops but does not require a GVWR sticker.

[Cummins12V98]

"And look into adding a leaf to the springs. Thanks for all the replies."


Personally I would look on northerntool.com, they sell US Made springs at good prices and get the capacity springs you need instead of adding a spring. Good chance your OE springs are loosing their arch and may break anytime as they use Chinese Junk on many RV's.

[theoldwizard1]

time2roll wrote:
Load it up ready to go and put it on a scale. May need more or less than you think.

True !

Even empty, RVs seem to weight a lot more than is listed on their plate.

[time2roll]

shadows4 wrote:
I did some more research. According to E-trailer the only difference in the 5200 lb axle and the 6000 lb axle is a bend in the axle. Same bearings, brakes and axle tubes. I have upgraded the tires to E rated Goodyear Endurance tires.
I have put off weighing the trailer, I am afraid of what I will find. But this spring after we dewinterize and get it loaded for the season I will get that done. And look into adding a leaf to the springs. Thanks for all the replies.

Probably all that is needed is some 6000 or 6500 pound springs. Not technically difficult to do yourself, just heavy line work. Good time to upgrade to a greaseable wet-bolt kit.

My springs were sagging flat after a decade of use. I put 4400 pound springs on my 3500 pound axles and it has never ridden better.

[NamMedevac_70]

Maybe you can get good price on your 2015 and then upgrade to larger if you have a monster TV. Just one option that sometimes works for others.

[joebedford]

I upgraded everything between the frame and the ground on my last RV. It didn't change the (legal) carrying limit, but it got rid of the problems I was having (broken springs, spring hangers and blown tires).

[JRscooby]

StirCrazy wrote:
can you guys legaly change the payload in the US with no big hassels, here we would need the modifications done and the engineering certifict so big bucks.

RVs IDK. But decades back I spliced and doubled frame, replaced 12,000 front axle with 18,000 LB. replaced 23,000 rear axle with a 44,000 tandem on 4 trucks. I legally could not, and did not change the data plate. Barny Fife stopped 1 of my hands. Checking insurance/registration/VIN he saw the GCVWR was 80,000. Bill of Lading, showed actual GCVW of about 110,000. By the time that first ticket came up for trial date that same cop had written me and my drivers about 40 tickets. I paid my lawyer $100. for the judge to explain to that "officer" that other than tires, the state did not care about ratings.
Now this was CMVs, which are regulated much closer than RV.
BTW, the mayor of the small town hired Barney to stop trucks. Mayor bought house then discovered much of the year about 100 trucks a hour used the street in front of it. Within about 6 months if a driver, or his lawyer showed up, the case was dismissed.

[shadows4]

I did some more research. According to E-trailer the only difference in the 5200 lb axle and the 6000 lb axle is a bend in the axle. Same bearings, brakes and axle tubes. I have upgraded the tires to E rated Goodyear Endurance tires.
I have put off weighing the trailer, I am afraid of what I will find. But this spring after we dewinterize and get it loaded for the season I will get that done. And look into adding a leaf to the springs. Thanks for all the replies.