What happens if you plug a 50 Amp RV into 22V welder plug

[jeepman71]

I am currious, if my rv were a 50amp system and I plug into a 220V welder or dryer outlet what will I find? What different circuits or equipment would likely be damaged?

Let's assume that this rv is a very late model like a 2012.

I don't have to worry because mine is only a 30amp.

[sdetweil]

john&bet wrote:

jeepman71 wrote:
I am currious, if my rv were a 50amp system and I plug into a 220V welder or dryer outlet what will I find? What different circuits or equipment would likely be damaged?

Let's assume that this rv is a very late model like a 2012.

I don't have to worry because mine is only a 30amp.

DON'T DON'T do it unless it has 4 poles or hole in the outlet. YOU MUST have a NEUTRAL period.

right. this is 50 amp 110v service.. requires a neutral..

NOT 50 amp 220 service.

[john_bet]

jeepman71 wrote:
I am currious, if my rv were a 50amp system and I plug into a 220V welder or dryer outlet what will I find? What different circuits or equipment would likely be damaged?

Let's assume that this rv is a very late model like a 2012.

I don't have to worry because mine is only a 30amp.

DON'T DON'T do it unless it has 4 poles or hole in the outlet. YOU MUST have a NEUTRAL period.

[sdetweil]

sdetweil wrote:
Ok, I'm the guy that found out. RV 50 amp into 60 amp Welder service with no neutral..

big Pop when the A/C tried to come on. wish it was a circuit breaker.. no such luck.

something smells near the converter/breaker panel. not wire smell, electronics smell. maybe blown converter.

obviously the smaller ground couldn't take the load. maybe it will be a blown ground wire. (probably wishful thinking).

far as I can tell everything works (on 110 adapter to 50amp plug) except the fridge electric circuit. lights, fantastic fans, 110 outlets. haven't tried slides or leveler yet.

I will disconnect all power today and pull the breaker panel out to look at the wires behind.

diagnosis advice welcomed. will also run a separate 6/3 circuit.

so far I have not found any damage anywhere. everything has been tested but the A/C's. I removed the fuse panel/distro center and all the circuit breakers. They all look good, no damage found, no discoloration, etc. No wire discoloration. No smell focalpoint.

the converter is running fine, and with everything 12v on at once no issues have been found.

I have run a proper 6/3 with ground 50amp, 110v service line now, but given the problems, I am waiting for a circuit tester/surge suppressor to arrive to validate the circuit. (this tester will go with me from now on as I hear a lot about power pedestal issues).

[byways]

smkettner wrote:

KMLsquared wrote:
I might be mistaken but I did not think the utility even provided a neutral?

Yes standard single phase service provides 240v and the transformer center tap as the neutral. The main distribution panel needs to have its own earth ground.

This guy knows what he's talking about.

[ken_white]

Some good, and not so good, responses here.

The RV 50 Amp service is limited to 50 Amps of current total from each branch as supplied by the service entrance.

The supplied voltage is split phase 240 Volts - each voltage is 180 degrees out of phase with each other and equal in amplitude.

This is accomplished by the transformer neutral which center taps the 240 volts and provides the return path back to the service entrance - the neutral always carries the difference current between the 2 branch currents.

If no neutral exists, and if the 2 loads are unbalanced in reference to their current draw, then each 120 V branch will assume an unknown voltage due to loading with the sum of the 2 voltages equal to 240 volts. This is very bad...

The ground connection back at the service entrance is not designed to carry current and will not balance the voltage when the neutral is disconnected.

You must run a 4-wire circuit or you run the risk of serious equipment damage and/or shock...

[sdetweil]

greende wrote:
Sorry this happened to you. I don't have any words of wisdom except to begin checking everything with your multimeter and add up the damage. Stay in touch and let us know. To my knowledge the combined neutral & ground together is no longer recommended for new installations like Dryers and welders but someone who has bought a new welder recently may be able to confirm this. If you had a four wire welder outlet, an RV would run off it with the appropriate adapter as the ground & neutral are separate.

thanks.. my welders are all 3 wire. as are the air compressors.

I find this interesting as the common and ground are bonded at the panel. but there was nothing on the common leg for the rv service.

[greende]

Sorry this happened to you. I don't have any words of wisdom except to begin checking everything with your multimeter and add up the damage. Stay in touch and let us know. To my knowledge the combined neutral & ground together is no longer recommended for new installations like Dryers and welders but someone who has bought a new welder recently may be able to confirm this. If you had a four wire welder outlet, an RV would run off it with the appropriate adapter as the ground & neutral are separate.

[sdetweil]

Ok, I'm the guy that found out. RV 50 amp into 60 amp Welder service with no neutral..

big Pop when the A/C tried to come on. wish it was a circuit breaker.. no such luck.

something smells near the converter/breaker panel. not wire smell, electronics smell. maybe blown converter.

obviously the smaller ground couldn't take the load. maybe it will be a blown ground wire. (probably wishful thinking).

far as I can tell everything works (on 110 adapter to 50amp plug) except the fridge electric circuit. lights, fantastic fans, 110 outlets. haven't tried slides or leveler yet.

I will disconnect all power today and pull the breaker panel out to look at the wires behind.

diagnosis advice welcomed. will also run a separate 6/3 circuit.

[greende]

goukcats wrote:
Kinda on the same subject... I am having a box & wiring installed for a double pole 220 outlet for a hot tub. I already have a 30 amp plug for my 5er but was wondering if I could use the same wire (hot tub wire) also for a 50 amp RV box. I assume I couldn't use both at the same time but would that work? Thanks...

If you're feeding the hot tub with a 50 amp breaker you could do it with some electrical management. You probably would need to turn the temp down to be sure you didn't draw too much power. 50 amps is 50 amps no matter where it goes. Your electrician would have to decide if it meets code, however. Good luck.

[goukcats]

Kinda on the same subject... I am having a box & wiring installed for a double pole 220 outlet for a hot tub. I already have a 30 amp plug for my 5er but was wondering if I could use the same wire (hot tub wire) also for a 50 amp RV box. I assume I couldn't use both at the same time but would that work? Thanks...

[Likes_to_tow]

Since I was not there to see what he actually did I cannot say exactly what happened. However my friend in another state who works in home construction supply business wired up his own 50 amp RV recepticle and when he plugged his brand new Class A motor coach in it blew up the converter, all the appliances including the TV and other items. $$$$$$$$$$$$$ Be sure what you have before plugging in. The pictures in the above posts are very good!!!

[Cummins12V98]

All modern appliances have two hot, one neutral and one ground.

[john_bet]

RoyB wrote:
Maybe this helps....

This is how a typical house is wired with a split phase (aka single phase) 3-wire 120V/240V service wiring.



Most residential and light commercial homes in U.S. have a single-phase 3-wire 120V/240V service. It consists of two inverted relative to each other lines and grounded neutral. Connecting an electric load between any line and the neutral yields 120 volts AC. Connecting between both lines yields 240 volts AC. The two 120V lines are derived from a step-down distribution transformer, which is usually mounted on a pole. Its secondary winding has a grounded center tap connected to neutral wire. The two end terminals are electrically “hot” with respect to the neutral. Note that both lines are derived from the same utility phase. That’s why such configuration is often called “split phase”. The three conductors go from the pole to your electric meter. From the meter they run to the panel containing the main service disconnect. From there the lines go to magnetic circuit breakers that protect individual branches. The branch breakers can be mounted in a separate distribution panel or can be incorporated into the main panel.

(This is from google search source)

Maybe someone can take this and explain how to use the 240VAC WELDER connection to be used for a RV50 AMP four wire connection where the RV 50AMP Shore Power cable can be plugged into this house system shown....

What confuses me is when installing the sub panel as shown below is where the "GREEN" Earth ground goes. Notice Earth ground is connected directly to the main panel shown above NEUTRAL Connection.. The Earth ground and the NEUTRAL are separated in the sub panel connections.


Roy Ken

Roy, the ground(green wire) in a sub panel has to be separate from the neutral per the NEC. It is the same way in all tt,5th,modular homes.

[qtla9111]

RoyB wrote:
qtla9111 - if that was responding to what I just posted you are probably right... I should get out of the mix I guess... I might want to wire in a sub-panel myself someday and right now I don't know what to do with the "GREEN" Earth Ground wires. Always been under the assumption you should only have one earth ground and in this case that would be at the meter location. We just had a lightning strike near miss here a couple weeks back so I got to watch the Power Company troubleshoot my NEUTRAL and EARTH GROUND connections. They found a LOOSE NEUTRAL GROUND connections and fixed that - all is normal again now in my house 120VAC circuits. My house is wired just like the top diagram in my other post...

INteresting at the least...

Roy Ken

Wasn't meant agaisnt you, I have problems with electricity. But reading this thread would confuse anybody. So many conflicting ideas.

[relaxin]

Have the proper plug installed, whats it going to cost really??? you bought the rig and payed how much, now don't take a short cut when hooking it up
the best way to do this is hire an expert, someone who is licenced with a business and insurance so if he smokes your rig, his insurance will fix it.
if you smoke it who pays to fix it?


dam!! I have "3" 30 amp RV plugs around my place