Diesel engine failure?

[Ro646a]

I'm considering purchasing a used diesel pusher. I miss the quiet ride with the engine in the rear.

I have had three class A motor homes with the 310 HP V10 and they all performed flawlessly. I have never read about anyone having any problems with the V10 other than the spark plug issues on the early models and some trouble with exhaust manifold bolts. I have never had those problems with mine.

One thing that I have noticed concerns me. In looking at ads for used diesel pushers over the past several months I have noticed several with a lot less than 100,000 miles advertising the fact that they have had the engine rebuilt. I just saw an ad for one today with 55,000 miles and a rebuilt engine.I thought these engines were
supposed to last a long time. I have never seen an ad for a motorhome with a rebuilt V10.

Considering the costs associated with owning a diesel this is kind of scary. The used models I have looked at have all been 2003 or newer.

[Jarlaxle]

Ivylog wrote:

Crazy Ray wrote:
GET V10

There is a lot more to deciding to get a DP (OR NOT) than just the engine. Granted if it only has the little Cummins 5.9 engine (older ones had dowel pin problems) and as a previous thread said: "the insides look like a travel trailer" there is not enough difference to go diesel.

In the past a V10 could handle a max of 36' of MH (yes I know there were a few longer). Today you are seeing it in 38' units, but longer/heavier than that you need a 7.2L DIESEL engine or BIGGER (Yes, I know there are some with Cummins 6.7... a good little PU engine).

Normally in a 38' or bigger DP you are getting more than just a quieter ride (without adding Dynamat), air brakes, and air ride suspension... you should be getting a much better built rig with solid wood cabinets, tile, Corian, four slides............ and good handling without adding track bars, steering stabilizers, upgraded shocks, bigger sway bars......... and you get a 10K hitch.

A Cummins 6.7 is a great engine, period. Offhand, they power Ryder's gigantic fleet of 26' Freightliners, including thousands of 33,000lb GVWR trucks.

[Gjac]

Years ago there was a post that was made into a sticky about breakdown information. The OP was going to compile the info that the members provided and post the results, but he got sick somewhere along the line and was unable to compile the data in summary format. This would have been very useful information for new buyers. I read through most of the posts years ago and did not see many eng failures of Diesels or gas engines my take away of the 81 pages of posts was that both gas and DP's broke down but the DP's required much more money repair. The DP block may last 500k miles but the accessories like turbos, alternators, radiators, etc don't. Likewise the gas eng may go 250k miles(mine has 108k miles)but the accessories don't. I have kept a record of all my repairs and maintenance costs over 12 years of ownership. Maintenance/repair cost/ mile would probably be a better comparison.

[Bruce_Brown]

Mile High wrote:
Wonder how many of those diesel failures were chipped.

OR how many were listed as "rebuilt" when it was nothing more than a simple turbo change or a lift pump replacement.

IMO there are way too many uneducated MH owners out there. I knew a guy who swore his Winnebago had a raised rail chassis and IFS. When I looked at it the rails were as straight as they could be and the axle was as solid as they come.

I think sometimes people think saying it's "rebuilt" instead of just saying what was done will somehow add value. Are they trying to pump up the value or are they just misinformed? I'm guessing it's option 2 in most cases. Or maybe a little bit of both...

[SoCalDesertRid1]

rgatijnet1 wrote:

SoCalDesertRider wrote:
There are, however, a huge number of rear engine diesel commercial passenger/tour busses, and have been for many decades...

Yep there are and every one of them gets regular maintenance at a professional garage. I would guess that all of them are turned over as soon as they get to a certain mileage or when the repairs start to add up to where they are no longer financially efficient.

Yep, and many of those they sell end up converted into very nice class A motorhomes, while many more likely go to companies in poorer countries, like Mexico and countries in central and south America, where they do another million miles before they go to the junkyard.

[free_radical]

Ro646a wrote:
I'm considering purchasing a used diesel pusher. I miss the quiet ride with the engine in the rear.

I have had three class A motor homes with the 310 HP V10 and they all performed flawlessly. I have never read about anyone having any problems with the V10 other than the spark plug issues on the early models and some trouble with exhaust manifold bolts. I have never had those problems with mine.

One thing that I have noticed concerns me. In looking at ads for used diesel pushers over the past several months I have noticed several with a lot less than 100,000 miles advertising the fact that they have had the engine rebuilt. I just saw an ad for one today with 55,000 miles and a rebuilt engine.I thought these engines were
supposed to last a long time. I have never seen an ad for a motorhome with a rebuilt V10.

Considering the costs associated with owning a diesel this is kind of scary. The used models I have looked at have all been 2003 or newer.

I dont see that as major worry,
Asuming the engine was rebuilt correctly..however,
Id be more worried about rest of the vehicle,,engines only fail if one overheats overev and or doesnt do proper maintanance..
I prefer to buy new one and drive it nicely..

[Mile_High]

Wonder how many of those diesel failures were chipped.

[Ro646a]

I was the OP on this thread. I don't have an agenda. I was just sharing an observation. It's simply that after looking at ads over the past 9 months or so I have noticed several (4 or 5?) diesels around the 03 to 06 model years
that mentioned that the engine had been rebuilt, but I have never seen an ad that indicated that a given motorhome had a rebuilt Ford V10. That being said, I still have my eye out for a diesel to buy.

[Jim]

Raising my hand here. Had a 5.9 Cummins and drove it for 12 years.

- Oil in the antifreeze: Seems there's a oil thingy in the water jacket. Shop recommended I ignore. It was just a sheen on the water.
- Killer Dowl pin: Had the potential for it, but close examination of the millions of posts about it, and the listing of serial numbers that might have the problem, since mine didn't seem to be in that listing, I chose to ignore it.
- Downshifting: My '94 36' Bounder with the 4-spd Allison 'dumb' xmission had a mechanical release so if my RPM's exceeded the limit, it would disengage and freewheel. So I could NOT over RPM the engine. I had to step on the brake to keep it below that magic RPM.
- Blown engine: Yes, did have that. At 159,900 miles. In the mountains, snowing, careful and slow driving, climbing a small bump (hill) there, a valve broke off and dropped onto the piston. Slammed the top of the piston pretty good.

Even with the broken valve I limped into town 45 miles away. Cost me $5700.

Sold the rig with 182,000 miles. Still running fine when sold.

What I like about the diesels; I do a lot of remote driving in areas where I'm hundreds of miles from anything and the diesel is pretty much bullet proof. It's easy to figure out what's wrong, and most of the time that's something outside the engine. If it is an engine issue, it will often start and let me limp to where I can get service nearly every time.

[OLYLEN]

Raise your hand if you have first hand knowledge. I get all these a friend of a friend or a guy told me or I read somewhere. Been around a lot of diesels both in and out of MH's, Ya there are a few problems with 5.9's of a vintage and a few ISL's and there's always a Cat or two. As far as damage in most modern MD's the motor or trans will protect each other and shut down before major damage, that in itself can cost many dollar to find the cause. But for the number of MH's "That are maintained to spec" there are few problems. How many operators get in and read the manual so one operates the coach correctly. I see so many giving advise on how to operate in certain conditions and they are totally out of manufacturers operating instruction. One I really like is mountain driving and not running up a good grade at best cooling RPM for rear radiator rigs, that is printed for a reason. I would really like to know the failure rate on both gas and diesel rigs maintained and run to what the manufacturer recomends, bet its low with either.

LEN

[Pirate1]

Dale.Traveling wrote:
I think it comes down to economics. Cost of the rebuild verses the value of the coach. I currently own a 10 year old gas rig with a V10. If the engine blew tomorrow it would probably be a hard sell to front the cost of a rebuild considering how much the coach is worth. Change the coach to a 10 year old diesel and I might be more inclined to take on the cost.

Then again as a shade tree mechanic would be an interesting project to do a V10 overhaul in the driveway.

What is the cost of a new V10 crate from Ford? I heard around 5-8K? That really isn't too bad if a new engine is need considering the cost of a new RV. If you maintain the coach like I do, slapping in a new engine at 200K miles is not that bad.

[down_home]

I have no idea of the cause of failures of those Motor home diesel engines without looking at what was done.
I've seen of a few, later models having failures due to heat from the cats now required and the new emissions equipment.
You can make a diesel fail by increasing times and fuel injection pressures etc. It increase power and fuel mileage but you can reach a point where the piston heads melt and ring lands. That is an unusual circumstance.
Perhaps their failures were simply algae in fuel and clogged up lines etc.
But generally a diesel's first major engine service was at one million miles.
Pumps, turbos, injectors and fans may go bad as with any machine but the engine itself is pretty stout.
May be they did drive it and let it sit for long periods of time without changing the oil for say five years and the oil level got too low.
If you buy a used motor home ask for/demand a warranty on the engine for five years. It may already covered under the manufacturers warranty, for a few more years, ask.

[Dale_Traveling]

I think it comes down to economics. Cost of the rebuild verses the value of the coach. I currently own a 10 year old gas rig with a V10. If the engine blew tomorrow it would probably be a hard sell to front the cost of a rebuild considering how much the coach is worth. Change the coach to a 10 year old diesel and I might be more inclined to take on the cost.

Then again as a shade tree mechanic would be an interesting project to do a V10 overhaul in the driveway.

[bobkatmsu]

A friend of mine owned a diesel repair shop for 30 years. His comment to me was, "yea, you can put 500,000 miles on them, but starting about 150,000 things start breaking and it gets real expensive real fast".

[rgatijnet1]

SoCalDesertRider wrote:
There are, however, a huge number of rear engine diesel commercial passenger/tour busses, and have been for many decades...

Yep there are and every one of them gets regular maintenance at a professional garage. I would guess that all of them are turned over as soon as they get to a certain mileage or when the repairs start to add up to where they are no longer financially efficient.