Leaving TOAD running while pulling

[stugpanzer]

I have a 2007 Chrysler Town and Country which I tow on a dolly and I would like to flat tow. In order to flat tow it would require a Lube Pump but I have been told another option is to leave the van running while pulling. Is anybody doing this when pulling a TOAD? I struggle with the cost of the Remco pump and other goodies to flat tow vs the value of the vehicle! I really want to hear from those that run their toads while pulling. Thanks!

[stugpanzer]

Thanks everyone for the conversation. I won't answer all the questions posed to me after I said thanks prior but I have decided to NOT run while towing. I am looking at the option of a lube pump but I am also looking at maybe ditching the Chrysler for something that can be flat towed without modifications.

[Pirate1]

I towed a Town & Country on a dolly once, that was it for me. I went to a lube pump and never looked back. Been towing my Grand Caravan with pump since 2006, 5k per year approx with no issues at all.

Can you do the wiring work yourself and hire out the tranny pan modification to a local mechanic? I installed mine myself along with Unified Tow Brake and the base plate. It was a lot of work but I saved a bundle and I know HOW it works so if something goes wrong, I know where to look.

Lucky you have a T & C, lube pump will not work with the new Pacifia.

[wa8yxm]

I can buy about 750 gallons of gas for the cost of a lube pump at today's prices. Now I've been towing this car for 5+ years and just my migration runs are 1600 miles a year so that's what. about 15 hours road time so figure 1 gallon per hour 225 gallons JUST migrating. And the car shows no signs of wearing out soon.

[willald]

I towed a Kia Sedona minivan using a lube pump for a while. Seriously toyed with the idea then, of idling it instead of using the pump, but ultimately chose not to. If the vehicle had been as old as yours, I doubt I would've spent the $$ to put a lube pump on it, I probably woulda tried idling it. I do remember reading about one person on here that did this (idling), and it worked great for him.

Yes, you use up a little fuel while towing, but you can buy a LOT of fuel for what it'll cost to put in a Remco lube pump!

The questions you have to ask, get answered before you do this, is: Will idling your particular engine, transmission while towing cause any issues for engine or transmission? Like already said, just 'cause one particular case or two this works OK, does not mean it will for your Town and Country van.

I would try to find a transmission specialist, someone that has a lot of working knowledge with the particular transmission you have, and ask their opinion. Try to find out specifically, if engine idling with tranny in neutral will cause fluid to be pumped through the transmission. I wouldn't just assume that it is, I'd verify such, even if that means disconnecting a hose from the tranny cooler briefly to verify, while engine is running and its in neutral.

I would then check with somone (maybe Chrysler dealer service tech?) that knows your engine well, too, and see if they think extensive idling for this engine would cause a problem or not? There probably are some engines for which this would not be a good idea, but I do think most modern, computer controlled engines should be OK with this, provided you keep an eye on it, which leads to next point:

Assuming you still want to do this, next thing you have to do is figure out some way to monitor whats going on with the van engine while towing. If it starts to overheat, shuts off, runs low on gas, etc. you need to know about it immediately, so you can pull over before something tears up. I'm thinking some kind of wireless camera you could attach with a strap to the driver seat, aimed at the dashboard, and put the monitor for such up on the MH dash, so you can see the van's dashboard while driving, and make sure engine is running, idling OK, not overheating, etc.? Or, if you wanted to get real extravagant with it, maybe hook up an OBD monitor to the van, and run the wires from it up to the MH, so you have full OBD monitoring for the van up on the dashboard of the MH? 🙂

As you might be able to tell, I seriously considered doing this. Ultimately decided not to and went with a lube pump, but almost wish I HAD gone the idling route, 'cause the lube pump thing was very expensive and didn't work out for me, anyway, for various reasons. Eventually, I quit towing that vehicle, and got one that is flat towable from the factory. Made things sooooo much easier then.

[wa8yxm]

I have a 2001 NEON with a lube pump.
Now the major issue with leaving it running (There are two) one is Fuel consumption. it will suck gas all the time it is running and if it runs out two bad things happen.. 1: Tranny burns up due to lack of lube 2: It won't start when you get to the Campground. There are some "minor" dangers too but I won't list them. Modern gas engines can idle for extended periods without damage.. Older ones can not (Older is like before 1980 (not sure of exact date) REASON. Computer control of modern engines.

When I towed the car to the RV dealer for lube pump install. Left engine running
When the lube pump fails (It happens) I run the engine till I get it fixed (usually later that day.. I'm rather good at fixing most of what goes wrong with it).

[T18skyguy]

Aside from effects on the engine/tranny, your slowly burning money every minute with gas use. If you get the lube pump, you can always remove it and sell on ebay etc. and you'll get some return on it.

[John_Joey]

I believe there is also a liability if the car should slip into gear. Reason why many cars you pull a fuse to disable the engine from starting if it ever did slip into gear.

[Dale_Traveling]

I don't know if it's possible or not but I have seen in multiple owner's and schedule maintenance guides that state high engine idle times will change maintenance intervals for some actions. As such check what Chrysler recommends. Personally I would go with the pump if possible.

[Chum_lee]

stugpanzer wrote:
I have a 2007 Chrysler Town and Country which I tow on a dolly and I would like to flat tow. In order to flat tow it would require a Lube Pump but I have been told another option is to leave the van running while pulling. I struggle with the cost of the Remco pump and other goodies to flat tow vs the value of the vehicle! I really want to hear from those that run their toads while pulling. Thanks!

What does your owners manual say? What does Chrysler say when you ask someone specifically qualified to render an opinion?

Who mentioned using Remco Lube pump?

I'm not familiar with your specific transmission, just automatic transmissions in general. With the engine running, it's generally true that the torque converter and transmission oil pump are running, but when the transmission is in neutral, generally the clutch packs are disengaged which means that there is no pressurized fluid (lubricant) being pumped there. With the driveshaft spinning, (towing) some clutches (or parts thereof) will be slipping/spinning, some not. I would want to get a recommendation direct from Chrysler before trying anything. If anyone would KNOW, they would.

Because something works with one engine/transmission combination in a specific model year, that doesn't guarantee that it will work with others. But hey, it's your car. If you burn the transmission up at its current age, it's probably not worth fixing if you have to pay retail.

Chum lee

[stugpanzer]

Again....Thanks folks for the input. You gave me some items to think on. I am now shopping for the best place to find a lube pump and yes, I would also have a brake system, etc etc.

[keefr]

Another consideration is the toad's braking system. With a load as heavy as a car, you should have an auxiliary system to activates the toad's brakes when the tow vehicle brakes - most flat-towed vehicles operate this way. Most auxiliary braking systems are designed to operate the toad's brakes with the engine off (so no power assist). If you leave the engine running, the pressure applied to the brakes will be way too much, and you'll be constantly locking up the brakes on the toad.

[naturist]

There's one more caveat here that may not apply to the OP: if your toad has a turbocharger, many of them depend upon pressurized air to keep the intake-side oil seals intact. Idling such an engine for long periods of time can cause that seal to blow out, which will then dump the oil sump contents into the intake manifold. If your toad also has a diesel engine, that leads to engine runaway, which will completely destroy the engine. If it is a gasoline vehicle, you risk hydrolock as one or more cylinders fill up with oil.

I've had three turbo-diesel vehicles now, and the owners' manuals of all three cautioned against excessive idling. All three used Garrett turbos, so it may be other turbo makers do not have this issue. As always, YMMV.

[JaxDad]

IB853347201 wrote:
Back in the early 2000's, I had a Ford that required a lube pump to tow 4 wheels down.
On the advice of a few, I towed it with the engine running about 600 miles.
Long story short, didn't work, had to replace the traany.

When the engine is running the torque converter and pump are both spinning regardless of driving or idling.

HOWEVER in this case the pump is running at idle speed, the driveshafts are running at highway speed and not all models pump much fluid around when in idle anyway.

[stugpanzer]

Thanks for the input guys!