Windows 11

[2012Coleman]

My laptop is telling me to upgrade to win 11. Anyone go from 10 to 11 yet?

[1492]

This thread has strayed off topic from Windows 11. Thread closed.

[Gdetrailer]

cleo43 wrote:
I use Linux, running Win 7 & XP without any problem.
Windows 7 stuck its nose on my very old Brother DCP-7020 Printer/Scanner, so I found an XP ISO on Archive.Org, install it on VBox, whip out the driver CD and everything works again.
A minimum install of XP takes less than 10G, and when not running, takes no CPU ressource at all. I print/scan once or twice in a blue moon.
I have'nt touched real Windows for a while.

Using Linux as a Host?

Yes, that will make a difference as long as your Linux has a driver that works with the old peripheral hardware.

But that is like comparing apples to oranges when it comes to using Win10 64bit as a Host and running XP/7/8 as a guest.

If Win10 64 bit has no drivers that recognizes your old peripheral hardware there is no way you will be able to get any VM guest to be able to talk to that hardware..

I don't do Linux and I suspect that 98% of the world does not do Linux.. Looked at it yrs ago, hardware driver support is limited at best, software support is limited at best, UI not obvious, command line can be clunky, installing software and drivers is not straightforward.. All of those I suspect are the reason you are using XP and Win7 in VMs perhaps?

If that is the reasoning you are using VMs, then why bother with the Linux Host? You CAN setup multi boot XP/7/8 and yes even Win10/11 basically having multiple OS boot options you can choose from.. Or you can setup Win7 pro which offers the option for a VM of XP.. Win10 Pro includes the option of running VMs already baked into it. Home versions do not offer built in VMs which is why I like the Pro versions.

The reality is using Linux as a Host and running XP or any other Guest OS does not make your PC any more "secure" from viruses and you are taking a hit on speed (Guests WILL always be slower than the Host OS)..

[cleo43]

I use Linux, running Win 7 & XP without any problem.
Windows 7 stuck its nose on my very old Brother DCP-7020 Printer/Scanner, so I found an XP ISO on Archive.Org, install it on VBox, whip out the driver CD and everything works again.
A minimum install of XP takes less than 10G, and when not running, takes no CPU ressource at all. I print/scan once or twice in a blue moon.
I have'nt touched real Windows for a while.

[Gdetrailer]

cleo43 wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:

Older Peripheral hardware that worked well with XP/7/8 no longer works well, works partially or randomly or not at all..

I run XP inside VirtualBox to solve all these problems. It's criminal to dump all these perfectly running hardwares to eWaste.

Virtual box or any VM in theory can allow one to continue to use older software by creating an artificial PC environment (emulates processors, memory and other internal PC hardware which are compatible with an older OS like XP or even DOS).

However, VMs are not perfect, come at a cost of drive space, memory and processor speed and you still run into the issue with your "Host" OS that must be able to recognize, install the proper drivers for old peripherals like printers and scanners.

Wasn't such a problem running VMs under say a Win7 Host, but with Win10 getting drivers for legacy peripherals to install and stay working is the biggest issue.

If the host can't see the device, neither will your VM see those items as a "Guest". For those who may not understand, to run a virtual environment you start with a "host PC", the Host is your base that runs directly from your PCs hardware and the virtual environment becomes a "Guest" of the Host.. Your Host must have enough memory, processor and hard drive space to run both the Host and "share" the actual hardware with the Guest..

I do keep my options open, I buy Win Pro versions which give you the option of using MS VMs at no extra cost which does make spinning up a VM fairly easy to do.. Have even spun up Win2016 server on a Win10 Pro host for the fun of it..

VMs do have a neat feature, the entire VM with all of the programs and data are all packaged into one file.. Make a backup copy of that file and if your VM gets a virus, you can delete the file and restore from the backup copy and your off to the races again.. The virus will be contained within the VM unless you have enabled some sort of file sharing between Host and Guest..

[8_1_Van]

I run Windows 11 (ARM64) with the Windows Insider Program on my M1 Mac Mini using Parallels Desktop 17 for Mac Pro Edition but very seldom use it since macOS Monterey v12.1 runs better.
desktop screenshot (5120x2880)

I also use 12.1 on my Mac Pro .

[cleo43]

Gdetrailer wrote:

Older Peripheral hardware that worked well with XP/7/8 no longer works well, works partially or randomly or not at all..

I run XP inside VirtualBox to solve all these problems. It's criminal to dump all these perfectly running hardwares to eWaste.

[Gdetrailer]

BobsYourUncle wrote:


Windoze could make older hardware work, they just don't want to...

I understand part of the problem, many of the older peripherals interfaced using 16 bit legacy DOS calls and functions. Sometimes it is a necessary evil to clear some space and not support old legacy devices. 64 bit Win versions do not support any 16 bit DOS calls and functions, 32 bit Win versions support 16bit DOS calls and functions.

Just because I understand the issue, it doesn't make me feel better though when I am facing spending $500 for a new laser all in one, a new color printer $200-$500 photo quality ink jet, a new color flatbed scanner, a new film negative scanner, new web cam, thousands of dollars in new software for all of my needs and much of the software there is no direct replacement for which requires multiple other alternatives.

Jury is out on Win10 in that aspect for me as I have a lot more work ahead of me but I will be at a min setting up at least one PC with Win10 32 bit to see if I can get most of what I have to work in some fashion rather than dumping everything into the trash heap, virtually nothing I have will work with Win10 64bit.

These ARE the reasons why I still have PCs with Win98SE, XP and Win7 (I skipped the lousy 8/8.1 era).

[BobsYourUncle]

Gdetrailer wrote:

wa8yxm wrote:

Mayor30 wrote:
In my opinion,Windows XP was the best of all the Window versions. Why couldn't they make updated versions of that instead of what they're doing?

Windows corporate policy
If it's not broke.. We will break it.

No truer but sadder words have been spoken when it comes to the sad state MS products are in.

Older Peripheral hardware that worked well with XP/7/8 no longer works well, works partially or randomly or not at all..

Have been fighting that fight the last few weeks setting up a W10 PC for my DW (she uses it for the times she needs to work from home).. A all in one printer/scanner we have been using on Win7 is only partially supported with Win10 drivers.

Making this even more difficult, MB manufacturers have been busy removing older legacy USB2/1 hardware (at the request of MS by the way) and hubs leaving you with a crippled USB3 port that simulates USB2.. To get the USB2 simulation one must have specific chipset USB drivers installed in Windows..

Older printers and scanners I have found are less than happy with this simulated USB2 enviroment and may work, may not work or sometimes just not show up..

The recommend MS "fix".. Don't use USB for printing and scanning!!! Nope instead, use the network printing! Yeah, like every printer/scanner had or has a network server built in..

I ended up installing a dedicated USB2/1 card I had laying around, but folks with laptops may have a difficult time doing that forcing folks to trash something that works fine on an older OS :R

New Laser printers with scanners are not cheap and neither is drums and toner you may have spares of. I don't live that way, some may call me cheap, I call it being thrifty and resourceful.

Just wasteful Americans at work..

Yeah, bingo, exactly. You said it well.

I do not use my desktop computer any more. Haven't used it in 7 years. Going to get rid of it one day. It runs Win 7.
On that Win 7 machine I ran a variety of older hardware. Everything ran perfect. Zero issues with drivers or anything else.

Fast forward to the only computer I run now, my Win 10 laptop.

I have a top of the line Canon laser all in one. Awesome device, cheap to run, crystal clear pages etc. Try as I might, I just cannot find a driver to make it work on Win 10. I have fiddled with it every way I can think of with no joy. So it sits, unused until I take it to the recycle place. Grrrr that makes my blood boil.

Next, a very old Samsung mono laser printer. (ML-2510) I bought it used in 2008 and it is the best printer I have ever had for general mono printing. After a huge amount of grief and misery, I managged to make it run on Win 10 64 bit. But lately it will just stop working. I have to fiddle fool with it, switch it on and off multiple times, unplug and replug the USB cable multiple times before it finally comes back online.

I have an old Canoscan FS4000US for digitizing my slide collection. Win 10? Forget it. But I managed to find a place that reverse engineered the old drivers and tweaked them to run on Win 10.

Windoze could make older hardware work, they just don't want to...

I plugged my 12 year old Canon 9000F flatbed scanner in a week ago after it sat unused in a box for many years. I was very surprised when it actually worked with no hassle or digging for drivers.

Windows 11? No thank you. Yeah, XP was awesome.

[Gdetrailer]

wa8yxm wrote:

Mayor30 wrote:
In my opinion,Windows XP was the best of all the Window versions. Why couldn't they make updated versions of that instead of what they're doing?

Windows corporate policy
If it's not broke.. We will break it.

No truer but sadder words have been spoken when it comes to the sad state MS products are in.

Older Peripheral hardware that worked well with XP/7/8 no longer works well, works partially or randomly or not at all..

Have been fighting that fight the last few weeks setting up a W10 PC for my DW (she uses it for the times she needs to work from home).. A all in one printer/scanner we have been using on Win7 is only partially supported with Win10 drivers.

Making this even more difficult, MB manufacturers have been busy removing older legacy USB2/1 hardware (at the request of MS by the way) and hubs leaving you with a crippled USB3 port that simulates USB2.. To get the USB2 simulation one must have specific chipset USB drivers installed in Windows..

Older printers and scanners I have found are less than happy with this simulated USB2 enviroment and may work, may not work or sometimes just not show up..

The recommend MS "fix".. Don't use USB for printing and scanning!!! Nope instead, use the network printing! Yeah, like every printer/scanner had or has a network server built in..

I ended up installing a dedicated USB2/1 card I had laying around, but folks with laptops may have a difficult time doing that forcing folks to trash something that works fine on an older OS :R

New Laser printers with scanners are not cheap and neither is drums and toner you may have spares of. I don't live that way, some may call me cheap, I call it being thrifty and resourceful.

Just wasteful Americans at work..

[fj12ryder]

Mayor30 wrote:
In my opinion,Windows XP was the best of all the Window versions. Why couldn't they make updated versions of that instead of what they're doing?

I really liked XP, but IMO Windows 7 is a better updated version of XP. Which is why I use it.

[wa8yxm]

Mayor30 wrote:
In my opinion,Windows XP was the best of all the Window versions. Why couldn't they make updated versions of that instead of what they're doing?

Windows corporate policy
If it's not broke.. We will break it.

[Mayor30]

In my opinion,Windows XP was the best of all the Window versions. Why couldn't they make updated versions of that instead of what they're doing?

[Gdetrailer]

1492 wrote:
Bill, if you are connecting to the Internet with WIN7, you're taking a risk of using any legacy OS with no security patching moving forward. Most all who caught the WannaCry crypto ransomeware got it from unpatched WIN 7 machines. Hope you're not accessing any financial accounts?

Don't think anti-malware software can protect you. It just takes a cyber criminal to exploit a vulnerability in OS allowing elevated privileges to disable security on your system. They can then do pretty much anything they want.

I HAVE seen "fully patched" and "up to date" PCs behind very heavily configured firewalls fall victim to virus/malware just as easily or even easier than fresh baremetal install of OS with zero patches.

Wannacry and lots of other ransomware/malware/virus is typically initially delivered via emails, email attachments or emails with links embeded that often look like an official email from someone you know.. Folks blindly open, click the attachments or links and bam it is launched.. Once launched if your PC is a member of a IT domain it will then attempt to move through that network.

Basically in a nutshell, the best "security" is not really trying to steel armor island your PC. It is more about being suspicious of emails and not to blindly trust everything. Investigate, check the actual email address before opening or clicking on it, often times the email will show your friends or known business name "alias" but if you look closer the actual email address is different..

Don't click the links in any email when it comes to any email purporting an account issue (your account will be locked if you don't respond type of thing), a shipping issue (there has been an error with your shipment type of thing that you didn't order), those links can take you to spoofed websites which could initiate installing a virus, malware, ransomware and/or make you divulge personal information ("Phishing").

Instead of clicking on links in any email to get to a website, go directly to the website on your own from your browser and not from the email link.

On edit..

Wanted to also add, that there are some very practical and effective ways to harden your PC from unwanted stuff.

Always use a adblocker, I use AdBlockPlus, works a treat on the third party inline ads (typically blue text with double underlines) which if you hover over will popup an ad.. Another way to harden your PC is to run NoScript in your browser.. NoScript blocks JavaScripts from running, JavaScripts have full administrative access to your PC making all of those Windows updates pretty much a useless affair.

However blocking JavaScripts from running will break most websites so you have to one by one enable them to get the website to work..

[mr__ed]

My trusty Toshiba laptop is getting long in the tooth (over 10 yrs old), but still works well. When support for W10 runs out in 2025, and if my Toshiba is still going strong, I may opt for a different operating system at that time (Linux?) 😉