Pushing the Limits and My Moderation Philosophy

[LLeopold]

Originally posted Sept. 21, 2007 as a reply to the question, "Why so many grumpy people full of opinions here?"

The moderators of the Open Roads Forum are volunteers, giving of our time and talent as fellow RVers and campers, to this forum to help promote our hobby.

We are neither omniscient, omnipresent nor omnipotent (Admin might be, however). If there are rules violations we may or may not, encounter them and advise the others, so that appropriate action might be taken. We rely on our fellow members to advise us by clicking on the "Notify Moderator" link. That link also provides room for comments. It is not, nor should it be considered, "tattling" for a member to advise a moderator about a rules violation.

[soapbox on]
Let me remind you that the Open Roads Forum is a family site and is now one of the largest forums, by membership, on the internet (over 200,000 members). When you post, it is not read only by other adults, but also by minor-aged children, who have an interest in RVing and camping. The forum is for the RV consumer community and only that community. That's the forum owner's (AGI) rules we abide by.

Let me also make it perfectly clear, there are plenty of other forums with much looser rules than this one, and that the participation is, by far, much less than this one (and more than one has been shut down by the sponsoring ISP due to the excesses of the few). If you want to exercise your "rights of free speech" on issues other than RVing or camping, you also have the right to post them elsewhere. Also remember that any reference to the Bill of Rights is to limit the government power over its citizens. It has absolutely no relevance to this forum or to its rules.
[soapbox off]

Sustaining the forum rules is a primary reason this forum has succeeded when so many others have failed. If there is a perceived error in judgment by a moderator (read my opening statements), we still would like to know about it. First, contact the moderator of the forum if they already have not PMed you about it. Personally, I try to head off any confrontation by PMing a member and giving them the opportunity to edit their thread or post, or an opportunity to explain why the post should stand as is. If I get a less than satisfactory (i.e. confrontational) response, I will edit the post for them, or yes, delete the thread entirely. And yes, that is how I moderate Beginning RVing and Tent Camping; I have, from time-to-time posted my method of moderating in those forums, and yes, have been called on an error in judgment by "my" members from time-to-time; again, I am human, too. For those who are involved in Scouting, you will know what I mean when I say that I try to "follow the 12" when evaluating posts and intentions of the originators of the posts (PM me if you want to know what this means).

Each of the moderators has their own method of implementing the spirit of the moderation guidelines (forum rules). Again, when there is a question, we typically consult each other. But then, Beginning RVing and Tent Camping does not get the same amount of traffic than the other forums, so I actually have the opportunity to respond more frequently and intimately, with the members than, perhaps, the other moderators. I always welcome input from the members (as do my fellow moderators) so that I can provide a service to members who share my passion for the outdoors lifestyle. The forum administration picks its moderators from the membership based on their participation in the forum and how they are received by other members (and moderators).

Again, I state, if you have a question of the moderator regarding your or another's post, free free to contact them to get clarification. If you do not get a response from that moderator (again there may be a delay, hey we like to RV, too!), feel free to contact another moderator.

But, one thing you do not want to do; you do not want to get into a confrontation with the moderator(s), nor the Administrators. You will want to keep the issue civil. It'd be like getting into a confrontation with a campground host or the rangers. You might be "right," but will the aggravation in the meantime be worth it?

NOTE: I will allow the thread to remain open for a few more posts, but if I see anymore posts that clearly violate the Forum Rules, I will close the thread. Call it censorship if you want, but that's how I moderate. I make sure that we all follow the rules.

[Gene_Ginny]

I just want to say THANKS to the OP and all the moderators. It can't be easy dealing with so much content and having to make instant judgement calls.

I have seen one or two posts about spam but I never see the spam so it seems the mods handle it well and quickly.

Thank You

[philh]

I vote to double the pay for the moderators 🙂

I'm a moderator on a fairly active forum and I found every once in awhile I need to step away from the forum for a few weeks. otherwise, I forget why I enjoyed the forum in the first place!

[4X4Dodger]

K3WE wrote:
Mod:

Please don't be discouraged. You did what is so often lacking-a little explanation. THANKS!

More typically the mods here do their thing without any acknowledgement, consistency, nor explanation.

...and "no explanation" sometimes represents an unhealthy power trip- and that doesn't sit well with the membership which has at least some expectation of reasonable free speech (some say we have no rights to free speech since the forum is privately owned, but this is balanced with the freedom to leave a poorly-moderated forum if we don't have reasonable freedom to speak).

Please keep up the great work of being balanced and transparent and I'd hope that some other moderators here would take note- they need to.

X2 You have hit the nail on the head. The above is THE difference between an intelligently moderated forum and one that is moderated in a Knee-Jerk reactionary and dictatorial way, which unfortunately one or two on this site are. Just the simple respect to the Users in giving an explanation means alot.

[K3WE]

Mod:

Please don't be discouraged. You did what is so often lacking-a little explanation. THANKS!

More typically the mods here do their thing without any acknowledgement, consistency, nor explanation.

...and "no explanation" sometimes represents an unhealthy power trip- and that doesn't sit well with the membership which has at least some expectation of reasonable free speech (some say we have no rights to free speech since the forum is privately owned, but this is balanced with the freedom to leave a poorly-moderated forum if we don't have reasonable freedom to speak).

Please keep up the great work of being balanced and transparent and I'd hope that some other moderators here would take note- they need to.

[GMandJM]

I must agree that I'm not a fan of the voting/rating thing either. Sorry. Too FaceBook-y.

Bad enough that my smart-alek posts could be deleted. Even worse: They could be GRADED! *shudder*

Might lead to performance anxiety and dreams of being late to class during finals. 😉

[atreis]

IMO, the mods here do a really good job. Thank you.

Self-policing through up-vote/down-vote: I could really see that being abused here. (e.g. (Ford|GM|Dodge) lovers down-voting each other, or people down-voting those who say anything positive about towing with a minivan, and other minority positions)

My only complaint w.r.t. moderation here is that on the rare occasion when I've had a post deleted outright, it just disappears with no explanation as to why. It's probably happened only 5-6 times that I've had something deleted outright, and while for half of those I could guess, for the other half I really had no idea why.

[Jim_Shoe]

I've notified the mods a couple of times when there is a post from a brand new member that has nothing to do with RVing or anything else, for that matter. Pure and simple spam. The mods would see it soon, but the quicker that goes away, the better off the rest of us are. The mods can't be everywhere at once.
And a couple of times when something was downright dangerous or impossible. (Just an example) a newbie planning to cross the Bighorns towing a 30' TT with a VW bug. In those cases, those people need to hear from a higher authority.

[ncrowley]

Thanks for all your work keeping this forum going!

[tpi]

I still think an ability to give thanks for a post, or uprate or downrate comments helps to self police the forums. Pure troll posts, content free insults, etc tend to be downvoted and discourage further behavior. There is really a lot of good stuff posted here-people who take a long time to carefully answer a question-an upvote would be a nice reward. Peer pressure is actually quite effective.

I've personally had no issues with forum moderation-in other words nothing I've written sticking strictly to RV topics has been deleted or modified. I'm not here for politics or other forms of discussion.

[MFL]

IAMICHABOD wrote:
Before you send it look, there is a spot that says Check recipient PM status like THIS it will tell you if you can or not. If unsure click Whats This.

Thanks for that tip! I will look first next time, before writing a PM, to a person I am not familiar with.

Jerry

[IAMICHABOD]

Before you send it look, there is a spot that says Check recipient PM status like THIS it will tell you if you can or not. If unsure click Whats This.

[MFL]

Not to do with Moderators, but a number of times, I have taken the time to write a friendly PM to a member then hit send. A message will appear at this time, saying this member does not accept PMs.

I am guessing this member has had a bad experience, to not want any PMs. What other reason, am I missing something?

It would be nice to know, when you click on send PM to JB, that they will not accept it, rather than wait until the message is written.

Jerry

[GMandJM]

2012Coleman wrote:
...I actually think that some posts are under moderated. Personal attacks seem to go on forever...

You bring up a very valid point. We've all seen those personal attacks and they serve no good purpose.

I try to self-moderate any threads I start and keep some sense of calm and focus (not that it always works, mind you.)

Perhaps there could/should be a way for an ORIGINAL POSTER to request a Mod or Admin close or delete a thread they've started if/when if devolves to the point of a non-stop personal attack?

Granted, asking for that might be as futile as asking for a belly-laugh emoji, but what the hey.

[2012Coleman]

Moderators are humans, not robots. Each section is moderated with a different mindset of how to enforce the rules/policies they are given to enforce. I'm not sure all of them are written though. You can't expect to "train" the moderators to moderate according to your expectations, and I'm betting none of them are interested in spending time being schooled - I wouldn't be. If something they do/did was contrary to policy handed down by the owners of the forum, they would most likely be removed.

I have had posts moderated and really have on occasion not remembered what I had written to cause it. I just assume that I said something wrong - doesn't matter what I feel is right or wrong - as stated, your perceived rights don't exist here - and I completely understand.

I actually think that some posts are under moderated. Personal attacks seem to go on forever. A topic on making the marker lights blink transforms into ranting about bright lights at night.

But I digress. I enjoy the fact that I can come on here, ask a question and get a great answer(s). While I participate in the social aspect, it can devolve quickly as nice people in person sometimes are not so nice when manning a keyboard behind an anonymous handle. I kick myself for being sucked into it, so I'm no better - but trying to be.

What people don't seem to understand is the difference between offering an opinion and being opinionated. It hurts their feelings when others disagree and they lash out. Do the moderators understand that this attitude repels new users? One new user came on and stated he would like suggestions on something he could tow with his current vehicle - he wasn't willing to change it. People told him he had to - multiple times in the same thread and when he objected, the attack was on. This guy went from a new member to a full member in his one and only post, and at the end vowed to never return stating this very frustration with moderation. Seems the mod was on the wolf pack's side as the OP was moderated - I had read the post before being removed. He clearly was being bullied.

So good job mods - I sometimes wonder what it would be like to join your ranks, but I've most likely burned that bridge! 😛

[4X4Dodger]

LLeopold wrote:
I've been talking with a couple of members privately about some of the perceived over-moderation in other areas of the forum and, yes, even some of my own posts were edited or deleted; and that's not unique to this forum, but I've had it happen in other forums I frequent.

My advice to them was something I started doing a few years ago when it came to expressing my opinion:

What I learned to do was to surround the opinion with something like:
[IMO]
...
[/IMO]

or, if I'm feeling a bit more assertive:
[IMNSHO]
...
[IMNSHO]

or, text followed by... (IMO, YMMV)

These qualifiers sometimes saves the post as it clearly states that I am not speaking as an authority (or simply being a smart @$$ on the topic, which I should expect would be edited or deleted - this last one sometimes comes as a shock to my fellow mods 🙂 ).

That can sometimes make the difference...

I understand what you are getting at with the "IMO" issue. But frankly I think those are so overused and ubiquitous as to be virtually invisible and nearly useless. I also think most people realize what they are reading is opinion in most cases.

In the same spirit I generally type out: "With all due respect" especially and generally only if I am addressing a particular poster.

I do wish that there was a "SAFE" space on this site where the subject of Moderation of some of the forums could be discussed with the confidence that the moderator was mature enough and self confident enough to hear criticism of some of his/her colleagues' moderation policies and possibly his/her moderation policy without resorting to closing the thread. Personally I think this would be an enlightening and growth experience for the moderators as well as the users. And would hopefully lead to a more consistent moderation of all of the forums. Let me be very clear here... I am speaking of criticism/praise of the POLICY, NOT the Moderator as a person.