Bicyclist/RV Death

[TUCQUALA]

Just read this am:

clicky

Having just come back from 3 weeks on 2 lane Idaho and Montana roads, I feel for the rider and his family, but also for the RV driver. 2 lanes, curves, and bikes = problems!! Just my opinion.

[Tvov]

JRscooby wrote:
Many postes talk of bikes being careless. And yes, it does happen. But many drivers are irrational about bikes. I'm commuting, probably 12-15 MPH, traffic passing me at 40, no issue. Light turns red, cars stop. Now I'm passing them at 15, and you would think I was slapping their face as I go by.
If a cyclist is not obeying the law/rules of the road, and gets hit, that is on him. But if he is just riding along, obeying the rules with regard to lights and reflectors, and you run into him, it is you that is wrong

Just to be clear, you aren't just going through a red light "passing them at 15mph"? Because THAT is what pisses off car drivers, it happens all the time, and that is why they are giving you the stink eye.

At a red light, you bicycle up towards the intersection on the right hand side, correct? Fine, but... if the first car has its right hand blinker on, do you go right up next to it, blocking it from turning? Especially after the light turns green, do you start out right away -- preventing the car, who was at the intersection before you, from turning?

I was stopped by a worker on the road where construction was going on while they were moving equipment. Two bicyclists come up... do they stop with the traffic until given the okay to go? No, of course not (at least where I live). They see a gap behind the back of the traffic control guy and shoot through the construction scene. Traffic guy just grimaces, sees me and we both just shrug our shoulders. Just another day of dealing with rude bicyclists who ignore "rules of the road".

I am always a little surprised at the "bicycle advocates" who seemingly never see any bicyclist ignoring road laws and just being a jerk in general on the road.

For all the bicyclists out there who obey the law and the rules of the road, thank you!! Keep it up! And please make an effort to educate other bicyclists.

[Airdaile]

mich800 wrote:

Airdaile wrote:

whjco wrote:

azdryheat wrote:
When you step foot in the ocean you become part of the food chain. Kind of the same on a roadway.

Like it or not, as aggravating as they can sometimes be, a cyclist has the same legal rights to most roads as we do with our RVs.

And I will afford them their rights as soon as I see one of them stop for a stop sign.

Case closed. I also have never seen someone in an automobile not obeying traffic laws. But I assure you. If I see someone in a car fails to stop, game on time to run them down.

Nice try. If a motorist runs a stop sign and a cop sees it, there's at least a chance that someone will get a ticket. Nothing ever happens to a biker - NOTHING. Never seen or even heard of a cop busting a cyclist. Scofflaws pure and simple.

[JRscooby]

Many postes talk of bikes being careless. And yes, it does happen. But many drivers are irrational about bikes. I'm commuting, probably 12-15 MPH, traffic passing me at 40, no issue. Light turns red, cars stop. Now I'm passing them at 15, and you would think I was slapping their face as I go by.
If a cyclist is not obeying the law/rules of the road, and gets hit, that is on him. But if he is just riding along, obeying the rules with regard to lights and reflectors, and you run into him, it is you that is wrong

[MrWizard]

Lwiddis wrote:
"A motor home driving in the same lane as the cyclist came up behind him while navigating a curve near mile marker 79 and reportedly slowed down but could not move over on the two-lane highway as another vehicle was oncoming, MHP officials said."

So much for sharing the road with this MH driver. So much for controlling your speed so that you can stop before you hit a cyclist on a narrow road.

IVE RIDDEN CYCLES pedal and motor, since i could
and ive driven all kinds of vehicles, i have a 36ft MH, and a motorcycle

on a 2 lane road going around a mountain curve, with oncoming traffic
if a cyclist is NOT in the clear, you can NOT avoid him, unless you are barely traveling faster than he is, you know like 2-5 mph above his speed. which makes the RV a danger to the traffic behind it

on highways an unincorporated areas with no side walks and curbs
riding a bicycle i will ride facing traffic so i can see what is coming at me, instead of ignoring what is behind me, i also walk that way along the side of the road, so i see on coming vehicles

its the way I was taught where i grew up

it is the cyclist job to keep himself safe, just as it is my job as an RV driver to do my best to keep my RV under control
but if i round the curve and there he is in front of me,
20,000# is going to when the collision contest, and nothing is going change that except me going off the road maybe killing myself and other drivers

[rk911]

mich800 wrote:
It makes you wonder. What if it was a piece of farm equipment, an Amish buggy, or any other obstacle. Listening to some of the comments it seems like as long as the obstacle will not cause too much damage to their vehicle go ahead and hit it. If it was a tractor in the road would the motorhome have done more to brake instead of just trying to move over? Probably, because a tractor would pose a higher risk of damage or injury to themselves.

i don't believe anyone had even hinted at to just "go ahead and hit it". bike riders, pedestrians, motor vehicles all need to be watchful and careful. but everyone also has a responsibility to act responsibly and share tge road. but from observing bike riders in my town on a daily basis i'd have to say that bikers as a whole generally ignore traffic safety laws placing themselves and pedestrians in harm's way. running stop signs and traffic lights, suddenly swerving in front of motor vehicles to make right or left turns, speeding on walking paths seemingly oblivious to pedestrians out for a stroll, riding on sidewalks weaving between pedestrians, wearing dark or non-reflective clothing at night while riding unlit bikes, riding abreast rather than single file and on an on.

drivers need to be more aware as well and "start seeing bikers" but virtually every driver i see that comes up on a biker from the rear moves over to pass or slows down and waits if oncoming traffic doesn't permit it. no, nobody has suggested or implied its ok to hit a biker but if a biker is riding recklessly which results in a crash then that biker bears at least partial responsibility.

[Jack_Spratt]

Maine has a 3’ rule for passing bikes.
We have a lot of bike lanes. Sometimes they stay in “their” lane sometimes not.
There are still a few cyclists deaths every year.

[mich800]

covered wagon wrote:

Lwiddis wrote:
"A motor home driving in the same lane as the cyclist came up behind him while navigating a curve near mile marker 79 and reportedly slowed down but could not move over on the two-lane highway as another vehicle was oncoming, MHP officials said."

So much for sharing the road with this MH driver. So much for controlling your speed so that you can stop before you hit a cyclist on a narrow road.

Good post excellent point.

Fact is most drive beyond safety margins by driving fast as they can, thinking it's within reason and are unconcerned with how those safety margins change. They also ignore the potential things that can happen and don't leave enough time to correct if all the wrong circumstances arise at once. It's sad to see such lack of concern for others.

It makes you wonder. What if it was a piece of farm equipment, an Amish buggy, or any other obstacle. Listening to some of the comments it seems like as long as the obstacle will not cause too much damage to their vehicle go ahead and hit it. If it was a tractor in the road would the motorhome have done more to brake instead of just trying to move over? Probably, because a tractor would pose a higher risk of damage or injury to themselves.

[covered_wagon]

Lwiddis wrote:
"A motor home driving in the same lane as the cyclist came up behind him while navigating a curve near mile marker 79 and reportedly slowed down but could not move over on the two-lane highway as another vehicle was oncoming, MHP officials said."

So much for sharing the road with this MH driver. So much for controlling your speed so that you can stop before you hit a cyclist on a narrow road.

Good post excellent point.

Fact is most drive beyond safety margins by driving fast as they can, thinking it's within reason and are unconcerned with how those safety margins change. They also ignore the potential things that can happen and don't leave enough time to correct if all the wrong circumstances arise at once. It's sad to see such lack of concern for others.

[rk911]

Ductape wrote:

rk911 wrote:

Ductape wrote:
There’s no excuse for running down a cyclist in your lane traveling the same direction. Vehicular homicide open and shut case.

really? RV coming around a right-hand curve at or below the posted limit and sees a biker 20-ft in front of them as they round the apex of the curve. the driver does a panic stop but physics am physics and the biker loses. what's the RV driver or other motorist to do... assume there is a bike, pedestrian or water buffalo in front of them and slow to a crawl and peek around the curve or move over into the oncoming lane and hope to God there are no vehicles in that lane? I do slow down around those types of curves as I imagine the RV driver involved did but not to a crawl. yes, bikers have the same right to the roadway but just as a driver of a motor vehicle must use caution and common sense so does a bike rider and that means assuming that a motor vehicle may not see them in time to stop or safely pass.

on a 2-lane country road in Texas a few years ago we encountered an organized group ride, may 100-bikes or so. most of the group was strung out for at least a half mile but we were down to a crawl as many of the groups were riding 4-6 abreast across both lanes. irresponsible.

Sounds like you’re in the habit of out driving your sight distance if you’re only aware of someone 20’ ahead at highway speeds. If you cannot stop in the space you can see then eventually a crash is inevitable. Defensive driving 101. And it’ll be a crash, not an accident.

you apparently don't recognize a hypothetical situation when it's presented to you.

[Ductape]

rk911 wrote:

Ductape wrote:
There’s no excuse for running down a cyclist in your lane traveling the same direction. Vehicular homicide open and shut case.

really? RV coming around a right-hand curve at or below the posted limit and sees a biker 20-ft in front of them as they round the apex of the curve. the driver does a panic stop but physics am physics and the biker loses. what's the RV driver or other motorist to do... assume there is a bike, pedestrian or water buffalo in front of them and slow to a crawl and peek around the curve or move over into the oncoming lane and hope to God there are no vehicles in that lane? I do slow down around those types of curves as I imagine the RV driver involved did but not to a crawl. yes, bikers have the same right to the roadway but just as a driver of a motor vehicle must use caution and common sense so does a bike rider and that means assuming that a motor vehicle may not see them in time to stop or safely pass.

on a 2-lane country road in Texas a few years ago we encountered an organized group ride, may 100-bikes or so. most of the group was strung out for at least a half mile but we were down to a crawl as many of the groups were riding 4-6 abreast across both lanes. irresponsible.

Sounds like you’re in the habit of out driving your sight distance if you’re only aware of someone 20’ ahead at highway speeds. If you cannot stop in the space you can see then eventually a crash is inevitable. Defensive driving 101. And it’ll be a crash, not an accident.

[Ductape]

gbopp wrote:

Ductape wrote:
There’s no excuse for running down a cyclist in your lane traveling the same direction. Vehicular homicide open and shut case.

The cyclist was hit by the side mirror of the RV and crashed.
Should we forget that nonsense about being 'innocent until proven guilty' and send the RVer to prison without a trial?
This could happen to any one of us.

It’s not going to happen to me because I’m not going to attempt to share a lane with another vehicle while driving something nine feet wide at high speed.

If it happens to you, then you’re a careless driver.

[philh]

MI Law is giving a 3 foot clearance to cyclists. Yes it can create a traffic issue, but I support the law.

[down_home]

A favorite trout stream, has winding long road to it. More than once I and many others have run up on a bicycle club perhaps, but certainly a lot of bikes that hog the road refusing to get over into pullouts an let traffic pass. i think there have been a few accidents. Nothing like being trapped behind a flock of bikes, at 15 mph or whatever for many miles, with just enough blind curves you don't dare pass.
When we did get a chance to pass some of the Riders displayed their IQ for us, and some tried to crowd into the other lane to get you to back off and stay behind them.

[Hammerboy]

I remember about 10 years ago I dang near took out a cyclist. It was dark outside, raining, and he was wearing dark non reflective clothing and riding on edge of the pavement on a narrow road. Didn't see him until I was right on him. Sorry but that guy was an idiot on a suicide mission.

Dan

[JRscooby]

gbopp wrote:

Ductape wrote:
There’s no excuse for running down a cyclist in your lane traveling the same direction. Vehicular homicide open and shut case.

The cyclist was hit by the side mirror of the RV and crashed.
Should we forget that nonsense about being 'innocent until proven guilty' and send the RVer to prison without a trial?
This could happen to any one of us.

No, a trial should happen. My point is the trial should not be to decide how much the insurance company pays. If the average motorist knew that if judgement goes against me they will make be locked up and for a long time, and never get to drive again I'm sure a lot of people would decide to turn in their licenses. The ones that keep would pay more attention to there driving.

rk911 wrote:

Ductape wrote:
There’s no excuse for running down a cyclist in your lane traveling the same direction. Vehicular homicide open and shut case.

really? RV coming around a right-hand curve at or below the posted limit and sees a biker 20-ft in front of them as they round the apex of the curve. the driver does a panic stop but physics am physics and the biker loses. what's the RV driver or other motorist to do... assume there is a bike, pedestrian or water buffalo in front of them and slow to a crawl and peek around the curve or move over into the oncoming lane and hope to God there are no vehicles in that lane? I do slow down around those types of curves as I imagine the RV driver involved did but not to a crawl. yes, bikers have the same right to the roadway but just as a driver of a motor vehicle must use caution and common sense so does a bike rider and that means assuming that a motor vehicle may not see them in time to stop or safely pass.

If the bike was only 20 feet past the apex, where was the driver looking when the bike was at the apex? How fast was the MH traveling around a curve he can not see? If the curve was that tight, the front of MH should be close to CL to keep rear on the road. Was the road marked 1 lane? If not the lanes are likely over 12 ft wide.
And yes, by law you must slow to a speed that you can stop in the distance you can see.

on a 2-lane country road in Texas a few years ago we encountered an organized group ride, may 100-bikes or so. most of the group was strung out for at least a half mile but we were down to a crawl as many of the groups were riding 4-6 abreast across both lanes. irresponsible.

Are you saying this guy was riding 6 abreast? Once on a major highway in Kansas, a guy pulling a 5th wheel pulled into a truckstop bas-ackward. When he stopped at the pump his trailer was still in the traffic lane. Should all RVers be run over?