California adds 12 cent gas tax and 20 cent diesel tax

[agesilaus]

Link

[minnow]

NYCgrrl wrote:

minnow wrote:

spoon059 wrote:

NYCgrrl wrote:
Of course the reverse can be said of car-less citizens who pay for roads they have no direct use for. In some parts of the country mass transit is the norm and car ownership unusual.

The difference is that those roads are used to transport freight, police and fire fighters... services that the car-less citizens still use. Those are essential services that benefit everyone in society and are part of the core goals of the federal government.

High speed transit that costs an exorbitant amount of money and benefits very few people is not a core goal of government...

And that shows the dichotomy between a blue state liberal living in a city and the rest of us that reside in the real world.

Not sure what you think that adds to the conversation besides your apparent disdain for people with different ideas than your own but truly some people think it's all about them and their ways.

So be it....but just as a heads up- there's a heck of a lot more people living in urban areas than not. By your way of thinking guess the majority rules and we should take your pig farm subsidy away from you just cause we don't understand the value of swine.

I worked in NYC for 3 years - saw many a swine there too.

[John___Angela]

spoon059 wrote:

NYCgrrl wrote:
Mass transit IS essential to any community that is not simply thinking of the currently able bodied.
Children, certain physically challenged people, the poor, senior citizens, come to mind off the top of my head and least this way it isn't regulated solely to them.

A high speed transit between cities is not "mass transit" of a city. The state of New York doesn't extend a high speed subway to Albany so that "disabled people" or children can easily get to Manhattan. You are comparing 2 VASTLY different things here.

I have to agree. I can't think of one country that we have visited that uses high speed trains as some sort of mass transit. They are almost always used as long range travel in lieu of air travel. It is more convenient as it is down town to down town so no expensive cab ride or crazy airport parking fees. Much more comfortable, less stressfull in every regard, more room, bar car, restaurant, reclining seats with a table, usually a movie and usually half the price. I can't think of anyone anywhere that would fly instead of taking the AVE or TGF. From Barcelona to Sevilla it takes about the same time for the train as it does for the plane once you factor in the 2 hour security stuff and the can rides etc. to each his own but air travel is not in the same league as High Speed Train travel...in my opinion.

[NYCgrrl]

minnow wrote:

spoon059 wrote:

NYCgrrl wrote:
Of course the reverse can be said of car-less citizens who pay for roads they have no direct use for. In some parts of the country mass transit is the norm and car ownership unusual.

The difference is that those roads are used to transport freight, police and fire fighters... services that the car-less citizens still use. Those are essential services that benefit everyone in society and are part of the core goals of the federal government.

High speed transit that costs an exorbitant amount of money and benefits very few people is not a core goal of government...

And that shows the dichotomy between a blue state liberal living in a city and the rest of us that reside in the real world.

Not sure what you think that adds to the conversation besides your apparent disdain for people with different ideas than your own but truly some people think it's all about them and their ways.

So be it....but just as a heads up- there's a heck of a lot more people living in urban areas than not. By your way of thinking guess the majority rules and we should take your pig farm subsidy away from you just cause we don't understand the value of swine.

[minnow]

spoon059 wrote:

NYCgrrl wrote:
Of course the reverse can be said of car-less citizens who pay for roads they have no direct use for. In some parts of the country mass transit is the norm and car ownership unusual.

The difference is that those roads are used to transport freight, police and fire fighters... services that the car-less citizens still use. Those are essential services that benefit everyone in society and are part of the core goals of the federal government.

High speed transit that costs an exorbitant amount of money and benefits very few people is not a core goal of government...

And that shows the dichotomy between a blue state liberal living in a city and the rest of us that reside in the real world.

[NYCgrrl]

westernrvparkowner wrote:

mileshuff wrote:

NYCgrrl wrote:
Mass transit IS essential to any community that is not simply thinking of the able bodied.

A mass transit system that is mainly used by the disabled isn't very practical and efficient.

Mass transit works great in cities where large population centers move daily from a housing districts to a work districts. Cities like San Francisco is a good example moving people from the east and south bays to SF and back every day. Mass transit fails in the majority of our nations cities where jobs and housing are scattered citywide without concentrations of either.

You are 100 percent correct. What works in NYC or Boston has no chance of succeeding in Los Angeles, Dallas or Hungry Horse Montana. That is why the Federal and State Government fails when it comes to dealing with local issues. There is no "one size fits all" answer to transportation, education, welfare, housing etc. But government believes they can conjure up a sweeping proposal and solve all the ills. It cannot happen.
Then there is the question of whether or not more money will actually make better roads, or will they just spend the extra money on fancier looking bridges, higher pay for highway workers, public transportation where it is not wanted or needed and showcase projects that never pan out (anyone want a Monorail? Bueller? Anyone?).

I agree that every public transport solution should vary by a locale's needs and geography. See just that up the road from me on the CT shore and Westchester county, both places where one family w/ multiple car ownership is the norm. I suspect that times of higher fuel costs boosted ridership but even now with lower gas prices ridership continues to grow. Their system uses buses of varying sizes and commuter trains w/ tracks maintained by Amtrak. I believe they are funded by 3 different levels of govt.

[JohnG3]

Gdetrailer wrote:

2oldman wrote:
I don't care.

And THAT is the "crux" of the problem.. Entirely TOO MANY people who don't care just how much of their hard earned money is vacuumed out of their pockets!

Each time the cost of something goes up (like taxes) and the income stays the same you lose...

You lose BUYING POWER, your money buys LESS, you get less VALUE out of your time and time IS MONEY.

You cannot "redistribute" wealth via taxes from those who have jobs or income to those WITHOUT jobs or income without the entire house of cards eventually collapsing when the cost of living goes up faster than the income..

In short ALL BECOME "POOR" with the exception of those who WROTE THE LAWS OF THE TAXES!

Where's the "like" button? You hit the nail squarely on the head.

[NYCgrrl]

spoon059 wrote:

NYCgrrl wrote:
Mass transit IS essential to any community that is not simply thinking of the currently able bodied.
Children, certain physically challenged people, the poor, senior citizens, come to mind off the top of my head and least this way it isn't regulated solely to them.

A high speed transit between cities is not "mass transit" of a city. The state of New York doesn't extend a high speed subway to Albany so that "disabled people" or children can easily get to Manhattan. You are comparing 2 VASTLY different things here.

My above quote started as a response to downhome who said the following:

California is not Europe. Most people cannot avail themselves of the single line they have now.
Many dive fifty even one hundred miles each day to and from work.
There is not enough room or available housing on top of where they work.
And unlike Europe they don't get six weeks or ore vacation which take a load off transit.
Talk of mass transit is essentially nosnes for most people. Some will get to use but everyone pays for it.
The essntial problem is they are trying to engineer a vehicle less society, and in socialist system where those that work, who will and are outnumbered by those that aren't working in California get the same level of income. Those engineering and managing this scheme live above it and crack the whip.
Moonbeam Brown's utopia or socialist paradise where everyone smokes dope, wears hair shirts, and lives in huts, and rides bikes and spend their hours at corner coffee houses being enlightened, by readings of Marks etc is the height of delusion and foolishness. They think they can mange our lives for our benefit better than we can. What they mean is they can run the train around the track and build the railroad to suit them and we are forced to pay and abide.

The convo then evolved into your comment here:

spoon wrote:
The difference is that those roads are used to transport freight, police and fire fighters... services that the car-less citizens still use. Those are essential services that benefit everyone in society and are part of the core goals of the federal government.

High speed transit that costs an exorbitant amount of money and benefits very few people is not a core goal of government. I'm not opposed to high speed transit options to give options for domestic air travel, but these are excessive costs for a relatively small stretch of rail.

I'm not opposed to higher fuel taxes, you have to pay to play. The issue that I have is politicians (in either party) that jack the tax of particular item and then use those funds to support projects unrelated to those taxes. Use fuel taxes to fix the roads, bridges and public safety associated with roads.

I really only responded to the section of your post that dealt with the overall necessity of mass transit but I can add a comment about high speed transit as it relates to NE option; not up to date in other parts of the country:).

The Amtrak NE corridor's revenue and usage, surpasses and supports the ENTIRETY of the system. The portion of the ride going from Boston to DC pretty much requires advance reservation for NE Regional and Acela due to popularity which in part is due to it's speed. It could go even faster if new track was laid in parts of the run and gosh the way I hear most RV.net posters comment faster is generally better:B.

How this country got so far behind the rest of the world in developing and maintaining a long distance rail system is a bit perplexing and anti progressive to me yet we are certainly a good half a century behind from what I can see.

[JohnG3]

lanerd wrote:

Ivylog wrote:
Diesel is $2.09 in Greenville SC and the roads are pretty darn good. Glad last summer was the last time I'll have to go to California, not that I'll be missed.

I'm sorry but your statement doesn't hold water. There is a HUGE difference between the physical size and population of California compared to S. Carolina. There's no way you can compare the two.:S

And you're correct...I'm sure that California will not miss having you visit.:(

As for the tax increase.....

If, and that's a big if.... the increase in gas tax is used ONLY for highway infrastructure...that will be great and I'm more than willing to pay the increase.:C

Ron

Brown and the California legislature are notorious for raiding funds to help pay for pet projects. Wouldn't surprise me if most of this revenue goes to the sanctuary cities that President Trump threatens to withhold Federal funds.

[Gdetrailer]

2oldman wrote:
I don't care.

And THAT is the "crux" of the problem.. Entirely TOO MANY people who don't care just how much of their hard earned money is vacuumed out of their pockets!

Each time the cost of something goes up (like taxes) and the income stays the same you lose...

You lose BUYING POWER, your money buys LESS, you get less VALUE out of your time and time IS MONEY.

You cannot "redistribute" wealth via taxes from those who have jobs or income to those WITHOUT jobs or income without the entire house of cards eventually collapsing when the cost of living goes up faster than the income..

In short ALL BECOME "POOR" with the exception of those who WROTE THE LAWS OF THE TAXES!

[2oldman]

I don't care.

[crcr]

RVMike wrote:
The money will not go to the roads, they have done this 3 other times and the roads are still ****. The Governor has the power to declare any program in financial need and can take the funds from any program. California is always broke but finds funds to help illegals.

^^^
what he said ...

[spoon059]

NYCgrrl wrote:
Mass transit IS essential to any community that is not simply thinking of the currently able bodied.
Children, certain physically challenged people, the poor, senior citizens, come to mind off the top of my head and least this way it isn't regulated solely to them.

A high speed transit between cities is not "mass transit" of a city. The state of New York doesn't extend a high speed subway to Albany so that "disabled people" or children can easily get to Manhattan. You are comparing 2 VASTLY different things here.

[westernrvparkow]

D.E.Bishop wrote:
Okay, I have hopefully a short reply, in the seventies we elected a governor that appointed Rose Bird to the CSC, she felt 7 years was okay for a sentence for 1st Degree Murder, he also appointed Adriana Giantturkey(pun) as Director of the DOT. MS Bird was dumped by the public and her Dictatorship left our jails with a major reduction in funding, The Giantturkey cancelled all highway improvements and repairs and donated all the money to the general fund. Additionally we passed Prop 13 that restricted the increases in property taxes and required some very strict laws on new taxes.

The result of these three things was that the State was stuck paying more for everyday living expenses for some and increasing as Liberals do, their social welfare programs by reducing money sent to schools, highways, etc, and sending it to the General Fund for more social welfare programs.

Thanks to Gov. Moonbeam all those things happened, now he is Gov. Brown and a down to earth realistic Gov. Another pun but not intended.

Supposedly he has grown up and now realizes how expensive infrastructure is and is willy nilly raising taxes, but by law 80 percent of the new tax must go to highway works and only 20 percent can go to his legacy. Another new law that takes effect I believe in 2018 prohibits spending any tax money for any purpose other than contained in the definition of the bill. It was part of his trade off and buying of the votes he needed for his Legacy Bill or Gas Tax increases. To which those of us on the right say, "Good Luck with that".

This is just what has and is happening here and I guess it is what we have to put up with to live here.

Nothing will ever top the high speed rail boondoggle between LA and San Francisco. It has already gone billions over budget and the three biggest hurdles haven't been addressed. Some rocket scientist decided the best place to start construction was at the middle, somewhere near Bakersfield. Unfortunately, after you complete that flat part of the tracks, they have to bore the largest tunnel ever conceived thru the Sierra Nevada mountains. Nobody is even sure if it can be done, much less how much it is going to cost and they are already out of money, so it really doesn't matter. Apparent solution? The money fairy will swoop in and save the day and the construction fairy then waive it's magic wand and viola, a hole will appear in the mountains.
Then there is the minor problem of the fact they haven't bought the land needed at either end of the rail line. The LA land and the San Francisco land still needs to be obtained. Again, no one knows how much this will cost, how long it will take, or if it can even be accomplished. Apparent solution? A second visit from the money fairy and after dumping truckloads of money into the arms of the landowners a rail line will link LA and San Francisco.
And the best news? The current estimates are the trip will take longer and be more expensive than flying. But hey, it's a high speed train, and if you don't want a train, you apparently need a brain. Got to love it.

[Gdetrailer]

bob213 wrote:
Unfortunately California already has one of the highest fuel tax in the nation. It seems that the fund has been diverted to the High Speed Rail that is so far over budget I can't find an accurate number. I have never seen our roads in the disrepair that they are in now, but everywhere you look the state is re-aligning the hiway to make room for the Bullet Train. From what we read in our newspapers the gov. has depleted every fund they can to get additional funding for the train. I'm sure they will siphon off this new tax as well.

Actually, PA took that shameful "honor" Jan 1, 2017..

Read Article Here

The text from above link..

"GASOLINE TAXES ON THE RISE

On Jan. 1, Pennsylvania’s wholesale tax on gasoline increased by 8 cents a gallon, to 58.3 cents a gallon, assuming wholesalers pass through the full cost.

The tax increase is the third under Act 89, a bipartisan 2013 law that boosted annual contracts for bridge and road work by about $1 billion a year, according to PennDOT.

Under Act 89, the gas tax increased by 9 cents in 2014 and 10 cents in 2015. There was no increase in 2016, so the cumulative increase — including the January hike — is 27 cents per gallon over four years.

Combined with federal gas tax of 18.4 cents, Pennsylvanians will be paying 76.7 cents per gallon in taxes — the highest in the nation."

The tax money doesn't go to the roads as it should be, instead it is redirected and goes to keep Philly "mass transportation" a float.. Something losing this much money just needs put out of it's misery.. the entire state suffers to keep artificially low fares in PAs largest inner city :M

Glad CA has taken back the hall of shame..

Hopefully the politicians in Harrisburg don't get ideas to top CA again..

[D_E_Bishop]

Okay, I have hopefully a short reply, in the seventies we elected a governor that appointed Rose Bird to the CSC, she felt 7 years was okay for a sentence for 1st Degree Murder, he also appointed Adriana Giantturkey(pun) as Director of the DOT. MS Bird was dumped by the public and her Dictatorship left our jails with a major reduction in funding, The Giantturkey cancelled all highway improvements and repairs and donated all the money to the general fund. Additionally we passed Prop 13 that restricted the increases in property taxes and required some very strict laws on new taxes.

The result of these three things was that the State was stuck paying more for everyday living expenses for some and increasing as Liberals do, their social welfare programs by reducing money sent to schools, highways, etc, and sending it to the General Fund for more social welfare programs.

Thanks to Gov. Moonbeam all those things happened, now he is Gov. Brown and a down to earth realistic Gov. Another pun but not intended.

Supposedly he has grown up and now realizes how expensive infrastructure is and is willy nilly raising taxes, but by law 80 percent of the new tax must go to highway works and only 20 percent can go to his legacy. Another new law that takes effect I believe in 2018 prohibits spending any tax money for any purpose other than contained in the definition of the bill. It was part of his trade off and buying of the votes he needed for his Legacy Bill or Gas Tax increases. To which those of us on the right say, "Good Luck with that".

This is just what has and is happening here and I guess it is what we have to put up with to live here.