Ev charging in camps expectation of availability, cost

[SDcampowneroper]

Evs in our region are primarily the few commuters or as tows behind MHs to use as tour the area vehicles. Commuters recharge at home maybe at work, though I do not know of any companies here that offer that service yet,
What I want you to post is as you travel with an EV towed, perhaps someday as a tow, how do you expect camp power supplies to be equal to charging your vehicle. An argument that EVs popularity growth will be met equally by growth in power generation and distribution has merit in metropolitan areas with steady power use curves. where the increase is anticipated. Its not so well defined in areas with regional high power use times,

Camps built yesterday did not -could not - put in the infrastructure to meet such massive electrical loads that serving the rvs and EV recharging. Where once 4/0 al cabling served by a 200a main to x # 50a rv sites, will quickly by overloaded with only a couple of recharging vehicles.
How is an existing camp to meet that load, pass the costs on?
How is a new camp to design for that potentiality, Pass the costs on?


I do not have a dog in this fight, we sold our camp last year and retired.

[Reisender]

nickthehunter wrote:

Reisender wrote:
At the end of the day no one will force a business owner to adapt.

Which is why the EV charger will be located somewhere very close to the electrical service entrance infrastructure (which may not be anywhere close to your site). If you want to charge your EV you take there, if not you’ll adapt. The cost of running the amount of power needed to provide EV charging to individual site is astronomical. It is not economically feasible. It’s not like running power from your breaker panel to your garage. But you can go ahead and keep believing the parks are going to come to you or go broke.

I think different parks will adapt different ways, just like hotels, golf courses, restaurants. If the park can only afford to add a few J1772 L2 EVSE's then I am sure that the EVer would appreciate them. I know I would.

[nickthehunter]

Reisender wrote:
At the end of the day no one will force a business owner to adapt.

Which is why the EV charger will be located somewhere very close to the electrical service entrance infrastructure (which may not be anywhere close to your site). If you want to charge your EV you take there, if not you’ll adapt. The cost of running the amount of power needed to provide EV charging to individual site is astronomical. It is not economically feasible. It’s not like running power from your breaker panel to your garage. But you can go ahead and keep believing the parks are going to come to you or go broke.

[Reisender]

wapiticountry wrote:

Reisender wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:

time2roll wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:
Centralized charging stations would be a no go from the consumer point of view. From personal experience I can tell you they are not going to want to park their vehicles away from their sites, even for a relatively short period of time.

Actually it is currently working very well at every other venue.
Do people just go crazy at an RV park?

Apparently so. Having owned parks for going on 20 years, not having parking at the site for personal vehicles is a huge issue. I would never, ever reconfigure or build a site where the occupant had to park anywhere but on the site itself. Maybe it is because they usually have a lot of personal items in that car related to vacation travel. Things like expensive cameras, spotting scopes, expensive fishing gear, climbing equipment etc. Or maybe they just don't feel comfortable having their personal car out of sight. But it would be a big customer service negative in my opinion if the charging had to be done at a location away from their RVs.

Good to know. So adding a pay to play J1772 EVSE on a half dozen sites would probably suffice. Get the 24 foot cord version. My guess is customers towing with an EV truck would pay through the nose for the convenience of “fueling up” right on site. Or just add a second 50 amp plug with a padlock and charge a flat rate for access. Maybe 50 bucks a day to use it. Maybe more.

Like every other park in the country, I do not have the ability to just add a charging station at a site. My electrical distribution system is not set up to just add another 50 amp circuit on the loops. Doing so would actually violate NEC rules by overloading the main circuits. To add them I would have to trench and add another main distribution line. That is a major, major expense above and beyond the cost of any charging station.
Even if I added them to your six sites, how do I go about managing the occupancy? Do I not rent those sites and turn away reservations to keep them open hoping someone needing EV charging eventually shows up? If I take reservations for them from non-EV guests do I then turn away EV guests? Do I move the advanced reservation customers to less desirable sites to accommodate the last minute EV reservation? Or do I just put the EV charging stations in the least desirable sites so that doesn't become an issue? Simple solutions usually aren't very simple.

Of course there will be challenges. We have owned and operated business all our adult life. Modernization is a requirement of staying in business. Those who do will stay in business. Those who don't will fade away. Just how it goes. Its a service based economy. People expect services. No different than a hotel.

At the end of the day no one will force a business owner to adapt.

[Reisender]

Etstorm wrote:
In Norway, they use twice the amount of electricity per capital than the US because of the EV charging. Just where would we get this electricity? In Germany they have had to resort back to fossil fuels because all of the solar is covered in ice and snow. Can EV, possibly. Is it the cure all, not likely.

Hmmm, I don't know. Norway has abundant electricity and as a result they use it for a lot of heating and manufacturing. More so than other nations. Hi EV adaptation contributes I'm sure but their electricity usage was high before EV's.

[pianotuna]

Etstorm wrote:
In Norway, they use twice the amount of electricity per capital than the US because of the EV charging. Just where would we get this electricity? In Germany they have had to resort back to fossil fuels because all of the solar is covered in ice and snow. Can EV, possibly. Is it the cure all, not likely.

In Norway, 98 percent of all electricity production come from renewable sources. USA is no where near that number.

In Norway, Electricity makes up between 70 and 80 % of the energy used to heat buildings, depending on various factors including prices.

[wapiticountry]

Reisender wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:

time2roll wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:
Centralized charging stations would be a no go from the consumer point of view. From personal experience I can tell you they are not going to want to park their vehicles away from their sites, even for a relatively short period of time.

Actually it is currently working very well at every other venue.
Do people just go crazy at an RV park?

Apparently so. Having owned parks for going on 20 years, not having parking at the site for personal vehicles is a huge issue. I would never, ever reconfigure or build a site where the occupant had to park anywhere but on the site itself. Maybe it is because they usually have a lot of personal items in that car related to vacation travel. Things like expensive cameras, spotting scopes, expensive fishing gear, climbing equipment etc. Or maybe they just don't feel comfortable having their personal car out of sight. But it would be a big customer service negative in my opinion if the charging had to be done at a location away from their RVs.

Good to know. So adding a pay to play J1772 EVSE on a half dozen sites would probably suffice. Get the 24 foot cord version. My guess is customers towing with an EV truck would pay through the nose for the convenience of “fueling up” right on site. Or just add a second 50 amp plug with a padlock and charge a flat rate for access. Maybe 50 bucks a day to use it. Maybe more.

Like every other park in the country, I do not have the ability to just add a charging station at a site. My electrical distribution system is not set up to just add another 50 amp circuit on the loops. Doing so would actually violate NEC rules by overloading the main circuits. To add them I would have to trench and add another main distribution line. That is a major, major expense above and beyond the cost of any charging station.
Even if I added them to your six sites, how do I go about managing the occupancy? Do I not rent those sites and turn away reservations to keep them open hoping someone needing EV charging eventually shows up? If I take reservations for them from non-EV guests do I then turn away EV guests? Do I move the advanced reservation customers to less desirable sites to accommodate the last minute EV reservation? Or do I just put the EV charging stations in the least desirable sites so that doesn't become an issue? Simple solutions usually aren't very simple.

[Etstorm]

In Norway, they use twice the amount of electricity per capital than the US because of the EV charging. Just where would we get this electricity? In Germany they have had to resort back to fossil fuels because all of the solar is covered in ice and snow. Can EV, possibly. Is it the cure all, not likely.

[Reisender]

wapiticountry wrote:

time2roll wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:
Centralized charging stations would be a no go from the consumer point of view. From personal experience I can tell you they are not going to want to park their vehicles away from their sites, even for a relatively short period of time.

Actually it is currently working very well at every other venue.
Do people just go crazy at an RV park?

Apparently so. Having owned parks for going on 20 years, not having parking at the site for personal vehicles is a huge issue. I would never, ever reconfigure or build a site where the occupant had to park anywhere but on the site itself. Maybe it is because they usually have a lot of personal items in that car related to vacation travel. Things like expensive cameras, spotting scopes, expensive fishing gear, climbing equipment etc. Or maybe they just don't feel comfortable having their personal car out of sight. But it would be a big customer service negative in my opinion if the charging had to be done at a location away from their RVs.

Good to know. So adding a pay to play J1772 EVSE on a half dozen sites would probably suffice. Get the 24 foot cord version. My guess is customers towing with an EV truck would pay through the nose for the convenience of “fueling up” right on site. Or just add a second 50 amp plug with a padlock and charge a flat rate for access. Maybe 50 bucks a day to use it. Maybe more.

[wapiticountry]

time2roll wrote:

wapiticountry wrote:
Centralized charging stations would be a no go from the consumer point of view. From personal experience I can tell you they are not going to want to park their vehicles away from their sites, even for a relatively short period of time.

Actually it is currently working very well at every other venue.
Do people just go crazy at an RV park?

Apparently so. Having owned parks for going on 20 years, not having parking at the site for personal vehicles is a huge issue. I would never, ever reconfigure or build a site where the occupant had to park anywhere but on the site itself. Maybe it is because they usually have a lot of personal items in that car related to vacation travel. Things like expensive cameras, spotting scopes, expensive fishing gear, climbing equipment etc. Or maybe they just don't feel comfortable having their personal car out of sight. But it would be a big customer service negative in my opinion if the charging had to be done at a location away from their RVs.

[pianotuna]

Grit Dog,

Please read the thread. Regen is dependent on speed and may be quite high.

As to vehicles, my current choice would still be the Kona. It has the range I need. Now if the price would drop.

time2roll apparently Rivian can be towed 4 down.

[time2roll]

The EV would control the regenerative braking based on speed, same as when driving. Would not have a provision to coordinate with the MH brakes. Eventually the battery would fill and the regeneration would be reduced to zero to protect the battery. As said virtually no EV is rated to be pulled four down.

Yes if the EV could be towed four down and coordinate braking with the MH it would be a wonderful system. Could potentially fill the battery from just stopping or controlling speed down a hill.

Elon, are you reading this?

[Reisender]

JRscooby wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:
But wouldn't that regenerative running create a pretty large drag on the tow vehicle? I mean it's part of the braking system isn't it?

I have played with this idea for a while. (Play; no MH, no EV, no knowledge)
I'm sure the regen would be a drag. But could it be controlled? Say on with the Jake? The one issue I see would be the Batt at 100% charge, the braking is gone. But then dream a little more. At some level of throttle opening, could the motor engage? Reprogram the cruse control so hold the vehicle in place behind MH on it's power? That would reduce load on MH powerplant. Or even push the MH to the point of tire slip. This would allow a smaller engine to climb hill or accelerate faster.
I think it would be a fun discussion

The software on the car would limit the regen braking as it got closer to 100 percent battery. That’s why most EV’ers on a day to day basis tend to only charge to 90 percent so we don’t lose regeneration. We charge to 100 percent before toad trips and of course driving style has to be a little different until you wear off 5 or 10 percent. Not a big deal, but part of the discussion for sure.

[Grit_dog]

Reisender wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:
But wouldn't that regenerative running create a pretty large drag on the tow vehicle? I mean it's part of the braking system isn't it?

It would be like driving with your brakes on for half an hour,

It would be convenient though. Arrive with a charged battery etc. We’ll have to wait to see what Rivian comes up with.

ROFLMAO!
And this, folks, is the world some problem actually live in....sweet dreams!

I’m not even going to look it up,but regenerative charging provides only a small fraction of typical charging. It can’t do more than that until those Unicorn Farts actually become real!

[Grit_dog]

fj12ryder wrote:
But wouldn't that regenerative running create a pretty large drag on the tow vehicle? I mean it's part of the braking system isn't it?

Yes, but another inexplicable “no big deal” oversight by those blinded by Elon’s luster.....

[JRscooby]

fj12ryder wrote:
But wouldn't that regenerative running create a pretty large drag on the tow vehicle? I mean it's part of the braking system isn't it?

I have played with this idea for a while. (Play; no MH, no EV, no knowledge)
I'm sure the regen would be a drag. But could it be controlled? Say on with the Jake? The one issue I see would be the Batt at 100% charge, the braking is gone. But then dream a little more. At some level of throttle opening, could the motor engage? Reprogram the cruse control so hold the vehicle in place behind MH on it's power? That would reduce load on MH powerplant. Or even push the MH to the point of tire slip. This would allow a smaller engine to climb hill or accelerate faster.
I think it would be a fun discussion