Informal survey supp brakes

[traveylin]

We are on an extended 3 month trip and I have decided to keep track of the percentage of class a toad haulers using supplemental breaking systems while walking the dogs in campgrounds. After a week it appears to be only one in three use supplemental breaking systems. Kinda interesting. I will update occasionally.

pops

[debandi]

We use one because it makes us feel good knowing we have 4 extra wheels helping if we need to stop in a hurry. Also if mh and toad become disconnected the toad will stop and not continue on down the road.

[Smitty77]

Hey Pops,

You don't have to ask me, or look - I'll tell you. I understand the word 'informal' (But as bad I am at spelling, I sometimes write it as 'informel' - hate to brake that here on this board, that I spel bad sometimes. Must mean I have nothing to contribute from years of other knawledge accumulation...:)!)

We do use a braking supplement in the toad. It's the USGear, as at the time I was shopping I felt it had the best combination of both ease of use (stays permanently mounted, and easy to activate while hooking up., as well as I liked the proportional application of braking based upon how hard of a stop the coach is doing. Panic stop, and the USGear brain detects this and applies more braking within the toad. The final feature I liked, was the cockpit ability to change the standard braking force, and also a lever to apply toad braking independent of the coach braking. The adjustment feature was important to me, as when we bought the unit we were in a T28 Bounder with the V10 F53 chassis, and I wanted as much braking assist as possible for going down steep hills, having the toad handling most of it's own braking. The lever to manually apply braking in the toad comes in real handy for when first starting out after hooking up the tow bar. We have the Stirling All Terrain tow bar, and making sure both arms 'lock' when first starting off is important. Especially when parked next to a curb on a street with a slight crown, and needing to cut out sharply to say get around a parked car in front of you. If the passenger side arm is not locked, the toad will drift to the right, and the front right tire can run along the curb based upon the back end of the coach swinging towards the curb as you cut the steering sharply. The DW used to sit in the toad, until we had both arms locked, and then if she had not been to mean to me during getting underway process, I'd stop and let her come back up and join me in the coach. It was about the 4th or 5th time that she did this, that I looked down and said 'Oh wait, I can apply drag/braking in the toad from within the driver's seat of the rig!'.

We now have a 40' with tag, so have Steer/Drive/Tag axle braking. Our little CRV is not all that heavy, and good 'chance' the coach braking would handle things OK. But, I like every bit of safety edge I can get in an emergency stopping situation, so really am glad I have the USGear in the coach. (We moved the cockpit control from the Bounder to the Country Coach, we liked it so much.)

Safety is safety, and as stated by others, it is the law in some states.

Best to all, be safe, have fun...
Smitty
(And I'm only kidding about the spelling. But if someone teased me about my spelling mistakes every time I posted, we'd crash the internet! These boards are bout info sharing - and the info gets across most of the time.)

[traveylin]

An update for the informal survey. I have been out of wifi access for a while. At Dick's Campground in Great Falls there was a caravan gathering for the trip to Alaska and had 12 new or relativity new diesel class a lined up with toads. Some observations.
1 all but one had small cars used as toads.
2 Three used tow bars with ball type hitches
3 None used tow bars with reactive type brake actuators(like a uhaul trailor)
4 one had an air line for air brake assist?
5 talked to two folks, one said he did not use toad brakes because his MH had plenty of brake capacity. One said he did not use toad brakes because they were prone to failure.
6 The other may have been using toad brakes activitated by brake lite systems or not.

Learn a lot by listening and watching

pops

[Hikerdogs]

Healeyman wrote:

traveylin wrote:
I have decided to keep track of the percentage of class a toad haulers using supplemental breaking systems while walking the dogs in campgrounds.

I must be the only one who is confused. WHY would anyone need or use a supplemental breaking system while walking dogs whether in a campground or not?

Even if you mean BRAKING system, it still doesn't make any sense....

Tim

The main reason is safety. If the dog breaks the leash while trying to chase a rabbit or squirrel you can activate the supplemental baking system and stop him in his tracks. It gets real ugly when there's a crash between a dog and a squirrel, rabbit, raccoon or any other animal they're chasing.

[jerseyjim]

Might I presume the OP finds out if a braking system is used...by using that lost art: TALKING to people?

[mowermech]

gasser9 wrote:
The OTHER guys insurance company requires it. You are a trucker now & you are at fault if all of the requiremen for your vehicle are not met in the state you are in. Go to the state you are registered in and all the states you are to travel in DOT website or call them. This is NOT the USA when you are RATED at 12,500 pounds gross or more. some states require brakes at 1000# others 2000#. Still others require you to stop at a stated distance. ALLdemand you stay within your Motorhome's GCVW limits. When you have met these requirements contact your insurance carriers main office for their opinion. I they clear you for no brakes have them put it in writing , sign it and send you a copy. Then you do not need brakes on your towed vehicle.
Way too many LAWYERS out there on a percentage.

Since it is "OFF TOPIC", I will not comment on the misinformation contained in that post.

[gasser9]

The OTHER guys insurance company requires it. You are a trucker now & you are at fault if all of the requiremen for your vehicle are not met in the state you are in. Go to the state you are registered in and all the states you are to travel in DOT website or call them. This is NOT the USA when you are RATED at 12,500 pounds gross or more. some states require brakes at 1000# others 2000#. Still others require you to stop at a stated distance. ALLdemand you stay within your Motorhome's GCVW limits. When you have met these requirements contact your insurance carriers main office for their opinion. I they clear you for no brakes have them put it in writing , sign it and send you a copy. Then you do not need brakes on your towed vehicle.
Way too many LAWYERS out there on a percentage.

[Dutch_12078]

It would be nice if the OP would stop back and enlighten us on how he determines supplemental brake usage, but one possibility hasn't been mentioned... Perhaps he simply asks people as he's out walking?

[mowermech]

lanerd wrote:
Regardless of the laws....that is not the issue here and is off topic. :S

The OP is running a survey on how many "he" can find by walking around the campsites he will stay at in the next 3 months. However, the question still arises......how can he tell if a mh/toad is equipped with or without supplemental braking system??????? :h

Please enlighten me!

Ron

Perhaps he sees people taking "the box" out of their towed vehicle.
Perhaps he sees the air connection on the back of a diesel pusher.
Perhaps he sees the surge mechanism in the receiver of the motorhome.
Perhaps he sees people installing "the box" in the towed vehicle.
Perhaps he sees people arriving and departing, doing NOTHING that would suggest auxiliary brake useage; no box, no cable hookup, no air connection, etc.

[ronfisherman]

When I am at a campsite. How would you tell if I have supplemental brakes. Everything that has to do with brakes is tucked out of site? I am sure many others have them tucked away also.

[willald]

lanerd wrote:
Regardless of the laws....that is not the issue here and is off topic.

Agreed, its completely off topic. I only brought it up, to correct the 'misinformation' another poster spread by suggesting that most states require such systems.

Will

[lanerd]

Regardless of the laws....that is not the issue here and is off topic. :S

The OP is running a survey on how many "he" can find by walking around the campsites he will stay at in the next 3 months. However, the question still arises......how can he tell if a mh/toad is equipped with or without supplemental braking system??????? :h

Please enlighten me!

Ron

[mowermech]

willald wrote:
All the joking aside, I will be curious to see what you find from this informal survey. I bet we'll be surprised at how few people really use them.

Oh, one other thing I must mention:

tropical_ron wrote:
Nerver needed one; always had one; will never be without one. Many states require one. Cheapest insurance we've ever bought in regards to liability...peace of mind also.

..Agree 100% with all of that, EXCEPT the part about many states requiring it. That is simply not true.

This 'myth' has been debunked on here many, many times. Fact is most states do NOT require it. Whats happened is, supplemental braking companies frequently post 'state laws' on their web pages that essentially lie, and claim these systems are required by law when they are NOT in reality, when you research all the details about the laws.

IMO, this has misled a lot of people about the truth of the matter, and they just 'propagate the myth' they read from supplemental braking companies. Really wish folks would stop doing that, as it leads to folks being misinformed.

Don't get me wrong, I agree 100% that these systems are a great idea, and everyone should at least seriously consider one when towing a car. However, don't be misled into thinking that state laws require such in most states, 'cause that is not necessarily true.

In fact, some of the states that those Lists Of Towing Laws say have NO requirement for towed vehicle braking actually DO! It is called a Braking Performance Law. The law specifies that a vehicle (or "combination of vehicles) must be able to stop within a certain distance on a clean, level, hard surface from 20 MPH. Here in Montana it is within 40 feet (MCA 61-9-312). IIRC, in California it is 45 feet. FMVSS also has braking performance standards.
Also be aware that in the event of the dreaded panic stop, at 65 MPH you will travel almost 200 feet, on average, before your foot even touches the brake pedal!
It is interesting that NONE of these auxiliary braking systems, AFAIK, have ever been tested by any independent laboratory to verify that they actually do what the manufacturer says they will do. Consumer Reports, Good Housekeeping, Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, NHTSA, etc. NO testing! I wonder why. If such a system is such a necessity, seems SOMEBODY would test it!
Especially BIG INSURANCE!!

[gotsmart]

John S. wrote:
....
I decided if I could feel it on start up I could feel it when I stopped so I put in an Airforce One. ..... One day I will test it in a parking lot but I feel that in a panic stop situation it will help.
.....

This is why I traded in my Ranger for an 1,800 lb (US) smart car. I was in Salem, Oregon going 50 MPH on 99E and was about to miss a right-hand turn. Without supp brakes on the smart car at the time, I grabbed the steering wheel and stood on the brake pedal. I never felt the car push me one bit.

Since my C still has its rearview mirror I was able witness the instant yardsale that took place on the floor behind me. It was impressive. I don't recommend having one. The post-yardsale cleanup was a PITA.

The only times I can feel the car is 1) right after hooking of the towbar and the towbar arms are not yet fully extended. I can feel the tug when the arms lock in place. 2) if the right-hand lane on a highway is rutted from (logging) trucks and the car is not tracking well in the ruts then I can feel the tail wag. 99% of the time taken care of by lashing down the car's steering wheel.