New 30ft Trailer Towing Experience

[bluepost]

Picked up our 2016 Sunset Trail 270BH from Manteca and towed it back to Reno using our 2014 Toyota Sequoia Platinum with 113t P rated Michelin LTX Defenders aired up to 42psi (max 44) and an Equalizer 4 point hitch. Tekonsha 90250 RF "wireless" brake controller.

Sticker weight was 5685. I stopped at the scales on the way home and had 50 lb Yamaha Generator in the back, full propane (+50 lbs), a single 27 series battery mounted (60? lbs), and about 100 lbs of "stuff"...tools etc, and a bit of water from the walk through.

Came out to 6020 lbs on the trailer with a 820lb tongue weight.
Truck was about 250 lbs under max weight with me inside. Leaving me 250 lbs for wife and 2 small kids, right below the limit.

The ride over Donner Pass (about 7100 ft) on I80 was no sweat. Never dropped below 3rd, 4th most of the time until high elevations, never had an issue holding 55mph. Never got above 62mph by own choice, and don't plan to (maybe one speed run to 75mph, max tire speed on trailer, for emergency purposes to test stability). Never got any sway, and the trailer was set up "okay". The dealer added an inch to the ball height for squat, but our truck has air suspension and it aired it up back to level putting the trailer just a bit high....not high enough anyone would notice, it looked good, but actually measuring and using a level it was a bit nose high. I have since adjusted the hitch height.

The dealer also "guessed" and the about of weight distribution, and was about one washer short. They never measured the front fender, and as set up it returned the fender to within about 1/4 of an inch. I'm going to continue to tinker a bit with that setup.

Once I got home I loaded our supplies into the bins and weighed each bin before putting it into the trailer. Also set up a tongue weight station and experimented with different water loads. Fresh tank definitely adds TW and the black must be mounted way back in the rear as it removes it.

As loaded I have the TW down to 730 lbs with 10 gallons (80 lbs) left in the black, and one propane tank stored under the rear bunks. Total trailer weight should be about 6150 lbs with blankets, some food, drinks, couple pots, full generator, tools etc. This give us an 11.8% tongue weight. Towing home I was at 13.6%

That TW gives our family of 4 (I'm 190 lbs, 130lb wife, two 50lb kids) about 530 lbs of useful load total, so with us that leaves 110lbs for "stuff" in the truck....as weighed at the scale. Don't plan on needing that "stuff" in the truck, we would just put it in the trailer, but we have some room.

Loaded with fresh water (830 TW) we will be right at or slightly (20lbs) over TW/Cargo load if we all go, so no full fresh water unless I can find some weight to add to the back.

Camped in our driveway last night, and plan on dry camping tonight at a state park close to home. Will only load about half water, but wife and kids are driving separately anyway so max cargo capacity isn't an issue on this trip. I just want to keep the TW light to see if there is a difference in towing.

Overall the Toyota Sequoia is awesome. I've done lots of other towing with it, but nothing of this length. The tow/haul mode works awesome by increasing the amount of throttle for a given distance of gas pedal travel, so you're not flooring and coming off the gas very much. Never floored it once, not even uphill in the mountains, maybe 1.5 inches of pedal travel max, most of the time it felt like I was inputting maybe 1/2-3/4 of an inch. My previous vehicle was a Denali XL, okay vehicle, and even with the longer wheel base of the Denali, the Toyota beats it hands down.

Coming down the hill the bad aerodynamics of the trailer behind me kept braking minimal. Started at the top of the grades at 50 mph (lots of 50mph curves coming down), downshifted a couple times, couple brake applications but MUCH better than coming down with my 5000lb boat with surge brakes.

9.8 MPG average over 180 miles starting at sea level, over the 7000ft pass and back to 5000ft in Reno. I was at 11.2 for the 90 min drive before I started heading uphill.

It never felt "squishy" to me, actually the opposite. A couple times I saw a bump or feature in the road that I thought would start it porpoising to the point I would wince, but hardly anything...in other vehicles, with shorter trailers, I would be worried about the hitch bouncing down and scraping, but not even close. Just nice and firm, but not harsh. Was it the wide axles on the trailer? The air suspension? The hitch? All three?

Overall happy with the setup.

[Gator_Mike]

bailer6334 wrote:
Gator Mike,

My GD 2150 dry weighed is 5,384 lbs, with a hitch weight of 412 lbs according to GD's build sheet. That said when I weighted the tongue with a sherline tongue weight unit, it weighed 680 lbs (this included 2 batteries, 2 propane tanks, no water but other stuff in the rig. ) Add 90 lbs for the Equalizer 4 point WDH assembly and that makes up the 770 lbs of tongue weight. While my Dodge Durango pulled the trailer without problems, because of its uni-body frame/suspension, from a safety point I had to move to a tow vehicle with a higher hitch capacity. My issue is while I got a good deal price wise on the Chevy 2500HD DMAX I typically only use it 1 week every month. I hestitate to use it as a grocery getter/errand runner because of the emmisions stuff on newer diesels. Thats why I'm looking at gas tow vehicles. The Sequoia looked like a viable choice until I was told about the hitch capacity limits.

Do you use the existing mirrors or do you have 3rd party mirror extenders?

Glad the Sequoia works for you. I still need to think about what I want to do.

I do use some mirror extenders that slip over the OEM mirrors. Got them from etrailer.com. They help a little. I find the rear view camera on the back of the TT much more useful for seeing what's behind me.

I pulled out my Sequoia manual to review what it actually says about tongue weight limits. It says the trailer should be loaded so that the tongue weight is 9 - 11% of the trailer weight. The max allowed trailer weight for my SR5 is 7,400 lbs, so 11% of that would be 814 lbs. so it seems the 740 number is a bit 'squishy'.

You cAn probably get your tongue weight down some by shifting some cargo weight behind the axles of the trailer. As Bluepost said earlier, a little weight shifted can make a big difference.

I will say we love having the Sequoia and it's 8 passenger capacity available for the rest of the time that we're not towing. And Consumer Reports just pointed out that Sequoia owners are among the highest group of large SUV owners that would buy it again. But in the end, you have to be comfortable with your set up.

Keep us posted!

[boeingme]

I've been through them all. From a 19' pull behind trailer, to Class C, to a 34' 5th wheel, to a 33'7" trailer and finally rested myself on a Class A Diesel. If you insist on a trailer, ONLY CONSIDER a 5TH WHEEL. A 5th wheel is easier to set up, take down, tow, back in a spot, is best built, need I say more? I sold mine due to a major surgery. Once I discovered I lived, I bought a 33'7" trailer and absolutely hated all the headaches. Traded it a year later for a used Class A Diesel. Totally self contained, yeah - cost a little bit more he he he.... Please go 5th Wheel, I would look at finding a Grand Junction 5th wheel. You cannot go wrong with it.

[bailer6334]

Gator Mike,

My GD 2150 dry weighed is 5,384 lbs, with a hitch weight of 412 lbs according to GD's build sheet. That said when I weighted the tongue with a sherline tongue weight unit, it weighed 680 lbs (this included 2 batteries, 2 propane tanks, no water but other stuff in the rig. ) Add 90 lbs for the Equalizer 4 point WDH assembly and that makes up the 770 lbs of tongue weight. While my Dodge Durango pulled the trailer without problems, because of its uni-body frame/suspension, from a safety point I had to move to a tow vehicle with a higher hitch capacity. My issue is while I got a good deal price wise on the Chevy 2500HD DMAX I typically only use it 1 week every month. I hestitate to use it as a grocery getter/errand runner because of the emmisions stuff on newer diesels. Thats why I'm looking at gas tow vehicles. The Sequoia looked like a viable choice until I was told about the hitch capacity limits.

Do you use the existing mirrors or do you have 3rd party mirror extenders?

Glad the Sequoia works for you. I still need to think about what I want to do.

[Gator_Mike]

bailer6334 wrote:
I'm confused. I was looking at a 2017 Sequoia to pull my 6695lb GVWR TT. I have weighed the tongue and it weighs 770lbs camping ready.

I had to get rid of my Dodge Durango because it only had a 720lb hitch capacity, and I like to have a safety factor when I tow.

When I talked to the Toyota dealer and the customer support people at the factory they told me the hitch weight capacity maximum is 10% of the vehicles GVWR. When you look at the Limited and Platimum specs you see it has a GVWR of 7300lbs max. To me that means the Hitch capacity maximum is onlt 730lbs.

I understand some vehicles manufactures allow for a increase in hitch capacity when using a WDH, however Toyota does not allow the increase.

So how do some folks have in excess of 850lbs on the hitch and feel that its safe? As I say I'm confused.

Bailer, we have the same GD2150RB, and tow it with a 2016 Sequoia SR5. We've only had the TT about 2 months, and taken it out once, about 250 miles round trip. We use a Blue Ox Sway Pro weight distributing hitch and Prodigy 3 brake controller. No problems at all. The Sequoia towed it pretty effortlessly. I weighed our tongue weight at about 650 pounds with the trailer loaded for camping, but no water in any of the tanks. We had the trailer weighed loaded at 5,620 lbs, but it was hitched to the sequoia, so probably need to add the hitch weight to that.

I want to mention that there is no hitch limit mentioned in my Sequoia owner's manual, only the suggestion of keeping the hitch weight to around 10% of the trailer weight. The manual says the max trailer weight for the SR5 is 7,400 lbs, of which 10% is the 740 hitch limit we keep hearing about. The 10% applies to the trailer weight, not the Sequoia weight. I think if you keep the loaded TT to it's max of 6,695 and load it properly, you'll be able to tow it with the Sequoia with no problem.

Finally, I would point out that as far as I have been able to find out, the new Sequoias are built the same as the ones that were rated to tow 10,000 lbs before Toyota signed onto the J2807 'real world towing' standard. So I'm pretty convinced that towing at or near Toyota's current limits probably has some cushion engineered into it. Still, l'm not planning to exceed the current numbers! Good luck.

[Interex]

Hi-jacking bluepost's thread but seems like the most discussion regarding Sequoia towing.

Just got back from another trip out with the Sequoia. This was 300 miles to and from Broken Bow, OK. As expected, we had absolutely zero issues towing on any roads we were on. Interstate, 2 lane highway, back country roads, mountain roads, steep grades, we hit it all. The Sequoia pulls amazingly well. Zero uncontrollable sway incidents with semi trucks passing us or us passing semis. We kept our speed around 65 mph. The Platinum with it's air ride rear suspension continues to amaze me. I did have an issue with the trailer brakes where somehow both ground wires worked their way out of the connectors at the axles. Even with an estimated 8000 lbs trailer (7050 dry), the Sequoia was able to control it and stop just fine. I will say that having a properly dialed-in setup is an absolute must. From weight distribution, sway control, and brake controller gain. If you're setup, these things will tow!







Details on the setup:

2016 Sequoia Platinum
2016 Gulf Stream Kingsport 288ISL (33')
EAZ-Lift WDH, 1000 lbs spring bars, friction sway control

[thomas201]

Thanks to Bluepost for answering an important question "How good is the J2807 in real life?" As best I know, you are the only one with hard numbers and driving experience bumping right against the J2807 numbers. In 2011, I took a 1/2 truck and a 1/2 ton towable 5er on a long trip while just 80# under max on GVWR. It was a poor experience. Now if more folks would chime in, maybe we can see if the standard, stands up in the real world.

[bluepost]

RedRocket204 wrote:

bluepost wrote:
I don't see where the hitch rating was ever de-rated. It obviously had to be at least 1000 lbs prior to J2807 to support a 10,000 max tow rating which would equate to a 10% tongue weight, the lightest I have ever seen specked out.

If this was in regards to my post, I was only pointing out the tow capacity of the 2010 Sequoia, which I recall was at 9100 lbs. It was on the 2011 Sequioa, with no change to the vehicle itself, where the tow capacity changed to 7100 lbs. I recall those numbers but could be slightly off by 100 lbs or so.

The Tundra also saw it's tow capacity fall as well for 2011, although not as much.

In case someone else is reading and trying to justify a use case for a Sequoia, I'll restate my opinion. I would not tow anything above 7000 lbs with our 2010 Sequioa Ltd. Under 7000 lbs, most likely but depends. I tow at altitude every time I tow. At altitude where I tow, up to 11,000 ft, I wouldn't want to tow anything above 6000 lbs with our Sequioa.

I'd agree with those numbers. It seems to me in my limited experience that the j2807 numbers got it about right. 7000-7400 depending on trim.

I've seen people still advising to use the "85%" rule and only tow 85% of rates capacity. Based on the reductions made with 2807 I'd say that was good advice in the past...not sure it's needed now. But towing 11,000 lbs with a 5500 lb F150 might give me pause, even if it's now 2807 certified.

[RedRocket204]

bluepost wrote:
I don't see where the hitch rating was ever de-rated. It obviously had to be at least 1000 lbs prior to J2807 to support a 10,000 max tow rating which would equate to a 10% tongue weight, the lightest I have ever seen specked out.

If this was in regards to my post, I was only pointing out the tow capacity of the 2010 Sequoia, which I recall was at 9100 lbs. It was on the 2011 Sequioa, with no change to the vehicle itself, where the tow capacity changed to 7100 lbs. I recall those numbers but could be slightly off by 100 lbs or so.

The Tundra also saw it's tow capacity fall as well for 2011, although not as much.

In case someone else is reading and trying to justify a use case for a Sequoia, I'll restate my opinion. I would not tow anything above 7000 lbs with our 2010 Sequioa Ltd. Under 7000 lbs, most likely but depends. I tow at altitude every time I tow. At altitude where I tow, up to 11,000 ft, I wouldn't want to tow anything above 6000 lbs with our Sequioa.

[bluepost]

A $700-$800 husky? hitch?

I don't know what was going on with him. He lives across the country from me so I was never able to see his setup.

[Hannibal]

Curious what hitch your friend first used with the Airstream. An Airstream should tow great right out of the box.

[bluepost]

I don't see where the hitch rating was ever de-rated. It obviously had to be at least 1000 lbs prior to J2807 to support a 10,000 max tow rating which would equate to a 10% tongue weight, the lightest I have ever seen specked out. The above link is for a 2015. My 2014 has the same spec rating.

The de-rating for j2807 tow ratings made it clear that something didn't meet the standard. What that was we don't know, handling, over temp climbing the hill, ability for the parking brake to hold the load on the specified slope, etc. But as far as I know Toyota was the only manufacturer to apply J2807 to an existing design. The others only applied them to newly designed vehicles. So much so that the new Suburbans still aren't 2807 because they are waiting for the new Expedition which is supposed to be 2807 certified.

In theory towing 9500 lbs with a 2008 or 2009 Sequoia is no different than towing within specs on a brand new Suburban or a 2016 F250, since neither of those were 2807 compliant either. All within published manufacturing specs.

So now towing at 7000, assuming you can stay within payload numbers which admittingly is a challenge, in theory should be "safer" then towing close to max load on a 2016 f250/350 since those weren't 2807, and nobody will ever know how much 2807 would of reduced those older designs capacity by.

I hear a lot about the "tail wagging the dog". The Sequoia is a 6000 lb vehicle empty. Towing a 6500 lb load shouldn't be a problem. A F250 that is 7000 lbs empty towing a 12,000 load doesn't seem any "safer" to me. Let alone a 5500 lb empty F150 towing 10,000-11,000 lbs. "Feeling" safer doesn't mean safer. Again, I would argue that lots of dangerously set up rigs are being masked by the larger trucks. Maybe the truck would stay in better control if the trailer fishtails, but that does nothing to protect the other drivers on the road.

I weigh my tongue every trip out. 750lbs tows great and falls in about 11-12% tongue weight. Highest I towed at was 850lbs to see if there was a difference when I was the only one in the truck taking it back to storage. I couldn't tell a difference.

After watching what my friend went through with a brand new F150 and a new 7000 lb empty airstream, I feel even better about my set up. He jacked around with settings, installed airbags, And was about to get LT tires when he decided a Propride was only twice the cost of new tires. Now he is satisfied, but I never had nearly the issues. But he has payload to spare, I don't.

Again, if I was a full timer, I'd have a f350, but towing exclusively in the Sierras, I can say I have zero hesitation.

[RedRocket204]

bluepost wrote:
https://pressroom.toyota.com/releases/2015+toyota+sequoia+product+specs.download

Says 880 to 1000 lbs on this Toyota spec sheet. If the 730 lbs was correct then when the Sequoia had a 10,000 lb tow rating before j2807 (2008 and 2009) the max tongue weight would only of been 7.3 %, way too low even for a boat.

FYI, it is the 2010 Sequoia that has the high tow capacity as 2010 was the new model. 2011 is when Toyota cut the tow capacity by about 2000 lbs without changing the vehicle at all.

Would I tow a travel trailer that is over 7000 lbs with my 2010 Toyota Sequoia again? Not a chance. And yes, I've done it.

[bailer6334]

bluepost,

I don't doubt what your saying, and I understand the J2807 spec was to set up a standard all vehicle manufactures would use, so why the derating?

And when this spec is used to recalculate hitch capacity did it derate others as well?

Additionally it doesn't make sense to say 10% of GVWR when some vehicles have different GVWR capacities. That would mean they either change out the hitches or use the same hitch (which makes more sense) and use a lower number.

However 10% is what I was told by both the dealer and factory customer service folks. Maybe it just a CYA.

[bluepost]

https://pressroom.toyota.com/releases/2015+toyota+sequoia+product+specs.download

Says 880 to 1000 lbs on this Toyota spec sheet. If the 730 lbs was correct then when the Sequoia had a 10,000 lb tow rating before j2807 (2008 and 2009) the max tongue weight would only of been 7.3 %, way too low even for a boat.