New 5th wheel and towing issues

[kimomjtb]

hi everybody it's been a few years since I've been here and I'm back with some issues that I hope someone can help with ....we recently upgraded our 31 foot travel trailer to a 38 foot fifth wheel and we are having some towing issues and don't know what to do about it ... we've talked with people at the camping place and the garage that worked on our truck recently ...seems like no one seems to know what to do... we have a 2003 Dodge 3500 Cummins turbo diesel 5.9 automatic quad cab I'm pretty sure its a 3.73 gears .short bed We have a husky sliding hitch ...on a recent to adventure with this new camper we were all over the road it was handling terrible it was a white knuckle experience... We recently had a lot of work done on the truck to get it ready for the new camper including new tires shocks airbags, steering box as well as a number of other things ...the tires were at around 80 psi on the truck ..and I want to say 50 on the trailer does that sound about right? The air bags were at 75.....are air bags a bad idea? what do you think this issue with all over the road was... Don't know any thing about pin weights and G VCRs and all that **** ..if .anybody could just help out a little I would truly appreciate it ....my husband is just all in a tizzy.thanks ..here is the specs to the trailer.....the hitch is right over the axel...please let me know if you need any more information That I may have not mentioned here .thank you so much..



Hitch Weight
UVW
GVWR
CCC
Exterior Length
Exterior Height
Exterior Width
Fresh Water
Gray Water
Black Water
Awning Size



385BH

1,940 lbs.
12,320 lbs.
15,940 lbs.
3,620 lbs.
41' 1"
12' 10"
100"
64 gal.
83 gal.
86 gal.
16 ft

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

[Shanester]

One more thing. Ask the shop to also check the rear suspension for wear. If this truck has coil springs in the front have them check the track bar (pan hard rod) for bushing or ball joint wear.

[Shanester]

IF for some reason you have the steering box replaced again then have them install a Redhead brand. In my research I found they are better than OEM especially on Fords and Dodges because they install bearings where there were just bushings from the factory. I bought mine directly from them and the price is reasonable considering what they do to them.
I can't imagine Michelin the tires making a truck feel dangerous to drive. Michelin doesn't even make a really aggressive tread off road type LT tire. Some people put ridiculously large mud tires and lift kits on these trucks all the time and drive them down the highway. But who knows maybe they are fighting it the whole time. With all that said my BF Goodrich Rugged Terrains do not drive (track) as well as previous tires but it sure doesn't feel dangerous.

[kimomjtb]

JIMNLIN wrote:

After just spending close to $4500 in the last 3"weeks...my husband just took the truck for a ride down the highway with nothing In tow and around a corner and almost lost control....

Something was done wrong if the truck drove fine before the 4500 bucks was spent.
Now if new tires were added then they could be the problem. New tires need to be broke in for 2-3k miles.

Some AT tires with the larger lugs and voids and MT type tires can have lots of tread roll. This can let the back end come around on hard cornering and handle like the rear tires are half flat.

Using 80 psi in all the tires when empty can have handling issues just like the two points I mentioned.

Wrong width wheels for the tires width being used can also have bad handling issues same as above. .... Example is a 285/75-16 on a 6 1/2" wide OEM wheel. This leaves the tires tread rounded or balloon shaped and just rolling on the center of the tires tread causing bad handling issues.

Have been working with tire reps and it seems that,the tires they recommended were a e rated green tire that,is too soft...working on getting different ones still.,michelins but with. More harder tread...if this does not work then they are going to replace the steering box again...we are gonna take it from there ....it seems we will eventually need a newer truck ..looked At some used ones today ..2010 3500 ram dully....still only 17 inch rims...gonna check the tow ratings out but we really are not looking to buy for At least a year or more...just want a comfortable towing experience in the mean time for the short trips we take...30 minutes from home on October 2nd....next trip is next June approx 3 hours away.

[houstonstroker]

New tires made my truck unstable for the first thousand miles or so.

[JIMNLIN]

After just spending close to $4500 in the last 3"weeks...my husband just took the truck for a ride down the highway with nothing In tow and around a corner and almost lost control....

Something was done wrong if the truck drove fine before the 4500 bucks was spent.
Now if new tires were added then they could be the problem. New tires need to be broke in for 2-3k miles.

Some AT tires with the larger lugs and voids and MT type tires can have lots of tread roll. This can let the back end come around on hard cornering and handle like the rear tires are half flat.

Using 80 psi in all the tires when empty can have handling issues just like the two points I mentioned.

Wrong width wheels for the tires width being used can also have bad handling issues same as above. .... Example is a 285/75-16 on a 6 1/2" wide OEM wheel. This leaves the tires tread rounded or balloon shaped and just rolling on the center of the tires tread causing bad handling issues.

[minnow]

Well the good news is that you know it's the truck and not towing so that takes 50% of equation away. Need to go to a reputable front end shop. Might be tires and/or worn front end parts. The shop should be able to easily diagnose the truck. Good luck.

[Beavis01350]

Look for a chassis shop or suspension shop. Dont tell them what you want checked, just tell them the problem. See what they find. I was taught as a kid, 3 things you spare no expense on, tires, brakes, and suspension/steering. Loose any one, and you are taking yours and your passengers lives in your hands. Idler arm, inner & outer tierods, ball joints, bushings, springs all need to throughly checked and make sure they are well in spec.

[crcr]

Michelle.S wrote:
OK, this might be out in left field, but in your original post you say that you just put new tires on the Truck, any chance the problems are being created my those new tires?? I just got rid of the Coopers on my truck because they didn't like to steer, didn't wander or anything, just wore the edges so when you were in a sweeping curve it would vibrate the whole truck. Just went back to GY Wranglers and problem is gone.
Might be worth a try to go back to the tire Dealer and try something different.

This is just what I was going to suggest -- all or part of your wandering problem could possibly be the tires. Personal case in point, I bought a used V8 Toyota 4Runner a few years back to replace my V6 Toyota 4Runner (switched to a V8 due to towing capability). I drove 1000 miles home from where I bought it and I thought I had made a terrible mistake, as it wandered all over. When I got home, I switched the wheels and tires from the V6 4Runner to the V8 4Runner, which happened to be Michelins. I could hardly believe the difference. The SUV quit wandering and tracked perfectly, just like the 4Runner they came off of did. Moral of the story -- it can be shocking and amazing what a major difference in handling tires can make.

BTW, I have Michelins on my Ram truck.

I certainly understand your frustration, after spending all that money. There are many many on this forum who own or have owned the same vintage truck as yours, and most all of us have had wonderful experiences, myself included. I hope you will be able to sort this out and join that club soon!

[Michelle_S]

OK, this might be out in left field, but in your original post you say that you just put new tires on the Truck, any chance the problems are being created my those new tires?? I just got rid of the Coopers on my truck because they didn't like to steer, didn't wander or anything, just wore the edges so when you were in a sweeping curve it would vibrate the whole truck. Just went back to GY Wranglers and problem is gone.
Might be worth a try to go back to the tire Dealer and try something different.

[kimomjtb]

I so appreciate everyone's help with our very frustrating situation... After just spending close to $4500 in the last 3"weeks...my husband just took the truck for a ride down the highway with nothing In tow and around a corner and almost lost control....needless,to say he is BS...I will take everyone's advice into consideration and go from there...Just wondering if they are the Wrong tires or Wrong shocks or wrong something...it was not like this before all this work...

[kimomjtb]

mowermech wrote:
When I was towing a fifth wheel (Monaco McKenzie 32 foot triple slide), my tow vehicle was a 1994 Dodge Ram 3500 CTD long box dually. The gross combined weight was 21,160 pounds.
I had a Husky hitch, non slider, that I installed myself. The instructions for the installation were VERY specific as to exactly where in the bed of the truck the hitch had to be. IIRC it was something like 4 inches in front of the center line of the rear axle. The OP says their hitch is right above the center of the rear axle. That does not sound right. I recommend that they get the installation instructions and do some measuring. Their hitch just might be too far back, and that would definitely cause the problems they are having!

They also need to read the airbag instructions. I had air bags in a 1988 Suncrest Class A, and the instructions didn't allow 75 PSI!

[kimomjtb]

crcr wrote:
I have the same truck you have -- a 2004 Ram Cummins CC SB 4x4, with 146K on the clock. Mine has had some new front end parts, and it does NOT wander AT ALL, tracks straight and true. There is still something wrong with your front end. It should not wander.

As has been suggested, you need to load up for camping and go to a CAT scale. I believe that your pin weight is probably too light.

We took our truck to the CAT scale loaded with wife, myself, and dog, full tank of fuel, etc. We still have 2860# of real world payload for our pin weight based on the axle rating. You are towing heavy, but if you can stay within your rear axle rating, I think your truck will handle the load just fine. If power is a little lacking, you could add a Smarty Jr tuner, the best tuner for the 2003-04 Ram Cummins.

I also have air bags, and I have never had the need or occasion to put 75# in them. I think that is probably too much pressure. I'd estimate the correct pressure when towing your RV would probably be in the 35 to 50# range.

Also, as someone suggested right before my post, check to make sure you are not traveling with your slider hitch in the rear position.

Good luck!

the trUCK is all over the road with out the trailer and all the air out of the bags...something is definitely wrong but noT sure what and we have had a couple of people LOOK AT IT...DH is beside him self with frustration so I will continue to do research and try to locate someone.who. Might specialize in front end problems...

[mowermech]

When I was towing a fifth wheel (Monaco McKenzie 32 foot triple slide), my tow vehicle was a 1994 Dodge Ram 3500 CTD long box dually. The gross combined weight was 21,160 pounds.
I had a Husky hitch, non slider, that I installed myself. The instructions for the installation were VERY specific as to exactly where in the bed of the truck the hitch had to be. IIRC it was something like 4 inches in front of the center line of the rear axle. The OP says their hitch is right above the center of the rear axle. That does not sound right. I recommend that they get the installation instructions and do some measuring. Their hitch just might be too far back, and that would definitely cause the problems they are having!

They also need to read the airbag instructions. I had air bags in a 1988 Suncrest Class A, and the instructions didn't allow 75 PSI!

[rhagfo]

Kimomjtb, take you truck to a good front end shop, NOT the one that replaced your steering box! Have them do a complete inspection and diagnosis. There is something not right and the other shop is just throwing parts at it. I have had my 2001 2500 steering like it was on rails both with and without the 5er in tow.

[crcr]

I have the same truck you have -- a 2004 Ram Cummins CC SB 4x4, with 146K on the clock. Mine has had some new front end parts, and it does NOT wander AT ALL, tracks straight and true. There is still something wrong with your front end. It should not wander.

As has been suggested, you need to load up for camping and go to a CAT scale. I believe that your pin weight is probably too light.

We took our truck to the CAT scale loaded with wife, myself, and dog, full tank of fuel, etc. We still have 2860# of real world payload for our pin weight based on the axle rating. You are towing heavy, but if you can stay within your rear axle rating, I think your truck will handle the load just fine. If power is a little lacking, you could add a Smarty Jr tuner, the best tuner for the 2003-04 Ram Cummins.

I also have air bags, and I have never had the need or occasion to put 75# in them. I think that is probably too much pressure. I'd estimate the correct pressure when towing your RV would probably be in the 35 to 50# range.

Also, as someone suggested right before my post, check to make sure you are not traveling with your slider hitch in the rear position.

Good luck!