payload and WD hitch clarification

[fourboysdad]

With four sons and a wife in a Nissan Armada with 1450 payload, tongue weight becomes a factor pretty quick. We're in the market for a camper that'll sleep all of us.

What I believe I understand: when a WD hitch is engaged, it will distribute the hitch load to the front, rear, and trailer axles. That I get.

What I think is right: when a WD hitch is engaged, a percentage of the hitch load is redirected to the trailer axles and off of the truck frame.

I'm concerned about payload. Assume I have 675lbs reserved for hitch load. If I were to get a camper that has an 700lb hitch load, would I be correct that if my WD hitch is set up right, that a percentage of that 700lb hitch load would be put back on the trailer axles and not on the truck frame thus keeping the truck from being overloaded? I can't seem to connect these dots.

My family is too valuable to me to overload the truck. Thoughts? Thanks!

[fourboysdad]

Thanks for all the insights. We've gone the cautious route and chosen a camper that, even when loaded up, is well below the max tongue weight based on our specific payload. The peace of mind is great and the give n take was minimal. I appreciate it. And on we go...

[blt2ski]

WHile what is being said is correct on what will happen at the end of the day with a WD system.......Not sure how big you are, spouse....but 4 boyz in a few years if they get to be the size of my twin boyz, 6'4" and 200 lbs when they were 15. 6' on 13th b-day. When my 4 kids, including 2 daughters, my family of 6 was in the 1200-1300 lbs range with JUST us in the rig. Your truck would be close to max gvwr with out hooking up a trailer.

If you are this close now, in a few years when those 4 kids get another 10 lbs per yr older....you're screwed!

Probably better to find a truck with at least 2000, if not 3000 lbs of free payload. I used SW3500 GMs with a 25' 6500-7000 lb loaded trailer, and STILL was close to or just over the manufacture GVWR of those trucks! I would not want to know where I would be with a typical DOT class 1 or LD class 2 rig, ie up to 8400 gvwr truck.

Truck in pic is at 9000s gvwr! You can see how small my twins were at the time. altho those two malamutes we took with us a probably 150 lbs per including crate.....Weight will add up quick.

Marty

Moderator edit to re-size picture to forum limit of 640px maximum width.

[lawrosa]

I am partial to coachman, and IMO for your family I would be looking at lightweights like this..

http://www.coachmenrv.com/products/apex.aspx?page=floorplandetails&floorplanid=4990

Its a 7500 lb trailer if you loaded it to the max. Says 5200 lbs dry.. Tongue 630 lbs. Add about 200 lbs to that.




Now if your weights are not what you expected after you weigh then you will need to look smaller and make some sacrifices..

I would be looking here then at the jayco 213. King bed for mom and dad, 2 kids in the bunks, 1 on the couch and 1 on the dinette. (thats the sacrifice..breaking down the couch and dinette every evening)

http://www.jayco.com/products/travel-trailers/2014-jay-feather-ultra-lite/x213/

5500 lb trailer with a 330 tongue. Add 200 to that.

[lawrosa]

The WD will transfer some weight to the front wheels of TV and some back to the trailer... What this # will be is dependent on a few things...

Like vehicle suspension ...

The main factor when setting the WD up is getting the front axle restored to same weight with no trailer attached. Once you restore the front axle to stock( and never never add more weight) what it will take off the rear depends on the tongue weight and what your loading in the TV and camper..

The armada will tow 9000 lbs or so..


But, here is how you figure what you can tow and find your boundrys..

Take the truck to a cat scale and get both axles weighed. You can do this alone or with the family in it. Preferable with the family and full tank of gas.

Then look at your door tag. Get the axle ratings. Take your rear axle rating and subtract what you got from your weigh. Thats what capacity you have left for tongue..

Also be alert of your front axle too. Often the front axle with engine up there and all the family will put the axle weight close to the door tag. Then when you try to use a WD hitch to get weight off the rear it puts the front over the limit...

Hope this helps...

[fla-gypsy]

You are pushing the limits of the vehicle regardless of whether you can get it under GVWR. When a full tank of fuel makes the difference between being over or under it's too close. What happens when those kids add a few pounds in a year or two (wives never gain weight)?

[MitchF150]

So, just the difference between a full tank of gas and an empty one could be as much weight as the WD transfers back to the trailer... Is a couple hundred pounds + or - either way, really going to make that much of a difference between total disaster and total bliss?? 😉

I'm just busting your ball$ obviously.. 🙂 Don't obsess about it, but I think you might want to PM a member by the name of Anaro or something like that. He towed at the max weights of an Armada and modified it to some extent and it still was not a comfortable tow for him...

Anyway, good luck with the quest and I do hope you find the combo that will work for you.

Mitch

[Ron_Gratz]

fourboysdad wrote:
---Assume I have 675lbs reserved for hitch load. If I were to get a camper that has an 700lb hitch load, would I be correct that if my WD hitch is set up right, that a percentage of that 700lb hitch load would be put back on the trailer axles and not on the truck frame thus keeping the truck from being overloaded?

If your WDH is properly sized and properly set up, it should be able to transfer a load equal to about 20-25% of the TW back onto the trailer axles.

This means that, if the "hitch load" is 700# with no WD applied, the "hitch load" might be reduced by about 140-175# with WD applied.

Of course, as others have pointed out, the weight of the WDH must be included as part of the TV's cargo weight when you calculate the amount of payload capacity reserved for "hitch load".

Ron

[handye9]

What Gdetrailer said !!

Your WD hicth might transfer 100 lbs back to the trailer axles, but, the weight of the WD hitch also takes a (near 100 lb) bite out of your payload.

I don't know if there is a calculation that will give you a percentange you could count on, because, there are so many types / brands of WD hitches, so many different tow vehicles, and they are individually adjusted to the end user's truck / trailer combination. Every one is different.

I used CAT scale weights to determine the amounts of weight transfer. I hit the scales twice in one week, same truck and trailer, with two different hitches, and got different amounts of weight transfer.

I think your best option is to determine how much payload you have available for tongue weight. Decide on an amount of that weight, you want to hold back for a safety margin, and shop for a trailer that will meet your sleeping requirements, and fit your payload requirement.

Some numbers you could use for estimating the trailer weight:

Average tongue weight is 12 - 13%

Average camping load (pots aand pans, dishes, bedding / linens, camp chairs,
BBQ, water, and groceries) is about 10 - 1200 lbs. If you buy a 4000 lb dry weight trailer, it will be near 5200 lbs, loaded.

If you know your available payload, divide it by .13. That will give you a ballpark figure of what loaded trailer weight will have the tongue weight near your available payload.

[skipnchar]

For what it's worth, payload is NOT effected by a WD system. It remains what it was regardless of the hitch used.

[fourboysdad]

Sorry guys, didn't mean to confuse things. With this info and others, I think i've got what I need.

Larry, I am concerned about payload which is why I wondered if a wd hitch will take some of the load off the truck frame. I'm a numbers guy and am cautious.

I appreciate all the insights and will trek on forward accordingly. Thanks very much.

[LarryJM]

fourboysdad wrote:

Ron3rd wrote:
I think what the OP is trying to get answered is whether dead tongue weight is removed and transferred to axles when the WD is applied. In other words, is your tongue weight less when you pull up your WD bars.

Ron, exactly. I fully plan to add in all the necessary weights. You stated my request perfectly. Thanks.

Well that's sure not how I read your OP when you said ....

I'm concerned about payload. Assume I have 675lbs reserved for hitch load. If I were to get a camper that has an 700lb hitch load, would I be correct that if my WD hitch is set up right, that a percentage of that 700lb hitch load would be put back on the trailer axles and not on the truck frame thus keeping the truck from being overloaded??

This was not simply about if any wt is transferred, but a concern over enough being transferred to prevent being OVERLOADED.

Like another poster has already pointed out I will repeat IMO if you are working in these margins then you are too close and as indicated the outcome will not be in your favor.

Larry

[Gdetrailer]

fourboysdad wrote:

Ron3rd wrote:
I think what the OP is trying to get answered is whether dead tongue weight is removed and transferred to axles when the WD is applied. In other words, is your tongue weight less when you pull up your WD bars.

Ron, exactly. I fully plan to add in all the necessary weights. You stated my request perfectly. Thanks.

I think you will find that it will be a "wash" in the end.

The WD hardware alone will easily add 100 lbs to the tongue. So really any thing "pushed" back to the trailer axles WILL be very little and the tongue weight will be nearly the same as it was before WD was applied.

Honestly, if you are down to counting weight this close you are simply going down a road which is not going to end happily.

Do yourself a favor and don't buy something so close to the ratings that you are depending on the WD to magically make the tongue "lighter".. The weight does not disappear into thin air..

[fourboysdad]

Ron3rd wrote:
I think what the OP is trying to get answered is whether dead tongue weight is removed and transferred to axles when the WD is applied. In other words, is your tongue weight less when you pull up your WD bars.

Ron, exactly. I fully plan to add in all the necessary weights. You stated my request perfectly. Thanks.

[Ron3rd]

I think what the OP is trying to get answered is whether dead tongue weight is removed and transferred to axles when the WD is applied. In other words, is your tongue weight less when you pull up your WD bars.