Tow rating comparison; 5th wheel vs bumper

[ByTheRvr]

We currently have a 1500 series gas pickup and bumper pull TT. We are planning to move up to a diesel pickup and 5th wheel. I have been looking at a variety of trucks and trailers. I have found resources that list towing ratings for all the pickups but I'm wondering if there is a difference in truck tow rating depending on whether you plan to use a 5th wheel hitch or a bumper pull hitch (which I believe the listed ratings are based on). I remember seeing an ad for a Ford diesel that showed two separate tow ratings for the same vehicle with the 5th wheel rating being quite a bit higher than the bumper pull.

We want to make sure our truck is well matched to our trailer but don't want to pay extra for more truck than we need. If the ratings are different for the two methods is there a resource that lists the difference? Since we are going to use a 5th wheel hitch I want to make sure I'm referring to ratings for using the truck with a 5th wheel hitch and not a bumper pull rating.
Thanks,
Barrie

[peaches_cream]

blt2ski wrote:

peaches&cream wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
Peaches,
............
Marty

Looked inside the glovebox and the "Cargo Weight Rating" is 3230 lbs.
Thanks for the tip of where to look.

Make sure you look closely at that sticker, is that the actual camper load with people in the seats? or with out? There might even be a sticker on the drivers door with a total payload. If that 3230 is the actual total payload, including camper and occupants, that puts the truck wt at about 6800 lbs empty, which would be on par for a BB CCC dually truck of that era.

So take out 700-1000 lbs for people, hitch etc, and you have remaining about 2300-2500 or so lbs for HW. Divide that number by .25 you have 10K max trailer, or divide by .2 for 20%, and you are in the 12K range for a max 5w trailer keeping you under gvwr. If you want to go to the axel ratings, then you probably have another 1000 lbs of HW, or 4-5K additional trailer lbs. Knowing that motor/drivetrain etc, I would try to stay under 12-13k or so total lbs.

Marty

Thanks Marty, it is starting to click. I have the truck and will try to match a 5er to my truck.

[wandering1]

Yes there is a difference. The towing specs from the manufacturer show tow ratings for travel trailer (trailer) and fifth wheel towing seperately.

[blt2ski]

peaches&cream wrote:

blt2ski wrote:
Peaches,
............
Marty

Looked inside the glovebox and the "Cargo Weight Rating" is 3230 lbs.
Thanks for the tip of where to look.

Make sure you look closely at that sticker, is that the actual camper load with people in the seats? or with out? There might even be a sticker on the drivers door with a total payload. If that 3230 is the actual total payload, including camper and occupants, that puts the truck wt at about 6800 lbs empty, which would be on par for a BB CCC dually truck of that era.

So take out 700-1000 lbs for people, hitch etc, and you have remaining about 2300-2500 or so lbs for HW. Divide that number by .25 you have 10K max trailer, or divide by .2 for 20%, and you are in the 12K range for a max 5w trailer keeping you under gvwr. If you want to go to the axel ratings, then you probably have another 1000 lbs of HW, or 4-5K additional trailer lbs. Knowing that motor/drivetrain etc, I would try to stay under 12-13k or so total lbs.

Marty

[peaches_cream]

blt2ski wrote:
Peaches,

Your rig probably weighs about 6500 plus minus 200 or so lbs. A quick way to tell the factory speced wt, Look in the glove box for the camper load sticker. If this says say 3000 lbs, add in the number of seat belts times 154 lbs IIRC and for a total of 3924, that is the factory speced payload with the options on YOUR rig. Take that 3954 less the gvwr probably 10K or 10500, and you have a pretty good guess that your base wt would be 6100 or 6600 with the two gvwr's I quoted.

You also probably have 4.10 gears, may have 4.56. GCWR is 16000 and 19000 for those gear sets. Not that it matters, as you are out of warranty. HP/Torque specs IIRC are 295/440 with the vortec 454 which is what you should have.


5whls should have somewhere from 15-25% hw on the truck. THe more generally speaking, the better. Many have tried to go with under 20%, then go to a higher payload rig, switch up to 22-23%, and say the towing is more comfortable, less sway bouncing etc.

Reality is, if you want to stay under gvwr, you will probably be limited to around 10-12K total lbs with that year model of dually. If you would have a 2000 or newer, then you could add another 2-4000 lbs, as they have a higher gvwr, axel ratings etc.

Marty

Looked inside the glovebox and the "Cargo Weight Rating" is 3230 lbs.
Thanks for the tip of where to look.

[danojeno]

ByTheRvr wrote:
I'm pretty well set on a crew cab long box. I'm used to driving a standard shift and prefer it for towing and my wife can drive a standard as well but we will probably end up with an auto transmission because there are just more of them around. We prefer cloth seats because leather gets so hot in the sun but we also want things like cruise control and most of the optioned trucks have leather seats so we may have to go with seat covers.

When I was looking a few years ago, all of the Dodges I saw had cloth.

[peaches_cream]

06Fargo wrote:
Google and I remembered! It was Helm Incorporated.

Thanks for the info. Fellow I purchased the truck from is looking for the manual. If he cannot find it, I will order 1.

[blt2ski]

Peaches,

Your rig probably weighs about 6500 plus minus 200 or so lbs. A quick way to tell the factory speced wt, Look in the glove box for the camper load sticker. If this says say 3000 lbs, add in the number of seat belts times 154 lbs IIRC and for a total of 3924, that is the factory speced payload with the options on YOUR rig. Take that 3954 less the gvwr probably 10K or 10500, and you have a pretty good guess that your base wt would be 6100 or 6600 with the two gvwr's I quoted.

You also probably have 4.10 gears, may have 4.56. GCWR is 16000 and 19000 for those gear sets. Not that it matters, as you are out of warranty. HP/Torque specs IIRC are 295/440 with the vortec 454 which is what you should have.

5whls should have somewhere from 15-25% hw on the truck. THe more generally speaking, the better. Many have tried to go with under 20%, then go to a higher payload rig, switch up to 22-23%, and say the towing is more comfortable, less sway bouncing etc.

Reality is, if you want to stay under gvwr, you will probably be limited to around 10-12K total lbs with that year model of dually. If you would have a 2000 or newer, then you could add another 2-4000 lbs, as they have a higher gvwr, axel ratings etc.

Marty

[noteven]

Google and I remembered! It was Helm Incorporated.

[peaches_cream]

06Fargo wrote:
I ordered an Owners Manual for one of our Buick Roadmasters online from ...um... I don't remember... but it wasn't that expensive and they come in handy...if I remember from a 1995 GMC truck I had there was lots of weight and towing data...

If you remember where, let me know. There are a few on EBay, but it's hard to tell if they are original Owners Manuals or just a generic version.

[noteven]

I ordered an Owners Manual for one of our Buick Roadmasters online from ...um... I don't remember... but it wasn't that expensive and they come in handy...if I remember from a 1995 GMC truck I had there was lots of weight and towing data...

[peaches_cream]

rhagfo wrote:

peaches&cream wrote:

SoCalDesertRider wrote:

peaches&cream wrote:
I have arrived here from the "Class A" side. I owned 2 HR for the past 6 yrs. 1 was a 36 ft. gasser and the other a 37 ft. DP. I have accquired a 1997 GMC 3500 ext. cab dulley w/454 engine. I will be looking for a 5th wheel to pull and need help in determining what I can safely pull. The truck is lacking Owners Manual so I do not have that info. On the door jam is GVWR 10,000 lbs., GAWR frt 3800 lbs., GAWR RR 7500 lbs. From what I read, I need to have the truck weighed with full fuel and loaded with people and baggage. After I accquire this number, what do I do next?

When you go to the scales, get not only the scale weight for the whole truck, but also get the rear axle scale weight, separately.

Subtract the rear axle scale weight from the RGAWR. That will tell you how much available load capacity you have on the rear axle. The front axle is of little concern, since it is the rear axle that carries 95% of the hitch weight of a 5th wheel trailer.

Don't forget to account for the weight of the hitch itself, as well as anything else you will carry in the bed of the truck.

Thanks for the info. Will do.

Better yet,,

First pass 5er connected 5er loaded to camp.

TV Front axle
TV Rear axle
5er Axles

Second pass, drop the 5er,
TV front axle
TV rear axle

Now with a little math you can get the pin weight of the 5er and the total weight of the 5er.

Pin = (loaded F axle + loaded R axle) - (unloaded F axle + unloaded Rear axle)

5er weight = 5er pin + 5er axles

Only problem with doing this is don't have the 5er yet. Going to get the TV weighed and will then look for a 5er. Can I be safe in using 20% of Max. Gross weight of 5er for pin weight when shopping for a 5er? What about Max. Towable Weight of 5er figuring into TV cap. I do not have Owners Manual to help. Only GVWR and GAWR on door.

[rhagfo]

peaches&cream wrote:

SoCalDesertRider wrote:

peaches&cream wrote:
I have arrived here from the "Class A" side. I owned 2 HR for the past 6 yrs. 1 was a 36 ft. gasser and the other a 37 ft. DP. I have accquired a 1997 GMC 3500 ext. cab dulley w/454 engine. I will be looking for a 5th wheel to pull and need help in determining what I can safely pull. The truck is lacking Owners Manual so I do not have that info. On the door jam is GVWR 10,000 lbs., GAWR frt 3800 lbs., GAWR RR 7500 lbs. From what I read, I need to have the truck weighed with full fuel and loaded with people and baggage. After I accquire this number, what do I do next?

When you go to the scales, get not only the scale weight for the whole truck, but also get the rear axle scale weight, separately.

Subtract the rear axle scale weight from the RGAWR. That will tell you how much available load capacity you have on the rear axle. The front axle is of little concern, since it is the rear axle that carries 95% of the hitch weight of a 5th wheel trailer.

Don't forget to account for the weight of the hitch itself, as well as anything else you will carry in the bed of the truck.

Thanks for the info. Will do.

Better yet,,

First pass 5er connected 5er loaded to camp.

TV Front axle
TV Rear axle
5er Axles

Second pass, drop the 5er,
TV front axle
TV rear axle

Now with a little math you can get the pin weight of the 5er and the total weight of the 5er.

Pin = (loaded F axle + loaded R axle) - (unloaded F axle + unloaded Rear axle)

5er weight = 5er pin + 5er axles

[peaches_cream]

SoCalDesertRider wrote:

peaches&cream wrote:
I have arrived here from the "Class A" side. I owned 2 HR for the past 6 yrs. 1 was a 36 ft. gasser and the other a 37 ft. DP. I have accquired a 1997 GMC 3500 ext. cab dulley w/454 engine. I will be looking for a 5th wheel to pull and need help in determining what I can safely pull. The truck is lacking Owners Manual so I do not have that info. On the door jam is GVWR 10,000 lbs., GAWR frt 3800 lbs., GAWR RR 7500 lbs. From what I read, I need to have the truck weighed with full fuel and loaded with people and baggage. After I accquire this number, what do I do next?

When you go to the scales, get not only the scale weight for the whole truck, but also get the rear axle scale weight, separately.

Subtract the rear axle scale weight from the RGAWR. That will tell you how much available load capacity you have on the rear axle. The front axle is of little concern, since it is the rear axle that carries 95% of the hitch weight of a 5th wheel trailer.

Don't forget to account for the weight of the hitch itself, as well as anything else you will carry in the bed of the truck.

Thanks for the info. Will do.

[SoCalDesertRid1]

peaches&cream wrote:
I have arrived here from the "Class A" side. I owned 2 HR for the past 6 yrs. 1 was a 36 ft. gasser and the other a 37 ft. DP. I have accquired a 1997 GMC 3500 ext. cab dulley w/454 engine. I will be looking for a 5th wheel to pull and need help in determining what I can safely pull. The truck is lacking Owners Manual so I do not have that info. On the door jam is GVWR 10,000 lbs., GAWR frt 3800 lbs., GAWR RR 7500 lbs. From what I read, I need to have the truck weighed with full fuel and loaded with people and baggage. After I accquire this number, what do I do next?

When you go to the scales, get not only the scale weight for the whole truck, but also get the rear axle scale weight, separately.

Subtract the rear axle scale weight from the RGAWR. That will tell you how much available load capacity you have on the rear axle. The front axle is of little concern, since it is the rear axle that carries 95% of the hitch weight of a 5th wheel trailer.

Don't forget to account for the weight of the hitch itself, as well as anything else you will carry in the bed of the truck.