Toyota Sway Control

[Heelshock]

Just completed a 400 mile trip. Starting in 2011 the Tundras were equipped with standard electronic sway control that reacts in a millisecond when it feels trailer sway. I've never had a problem with sway with my setup, but I decided to remove the Reese friction sway bar for this trip to see how it went. In 40 mph gusts and big rigs right up next to me on I-40, the trailer didn't budge an inch.

I've done a lot of searching to see if the friction control is actually detrimental to the new vehicle electronic sway control, or in the least one renders the other pointless. Answers are hard to find, however. I can say that I won't be putting the Reese back on.

[BenK]

Early professional life was in the controls industry...motion control, robotics,
factory automation, process controls, etc...

One mantra was to design for 'The idiot and gorilla' and 'if it can go wrong or
be used wrong....it will be'

I fear all of these types of systems will continue to dumb down the drivers
Just like the idiot lights we are all provided with...many go out and add their
own gauges to really know what is going on. To then manage it themselves

My anti-sway computer is my mind married with the sensors and actuators (eyes,
ears, seat of pants and legs, arms, fingers, etc)

If I do ever experience or suspect it is just about to happen...my computer tells
the rest of the controls system to initiate the trailer brakes, reduced throttle
and in some instances to increase throttle, keep steering wheel stead with every
so slight changes in steering angle, increase trailer braking while keeping the
TV's brakes OFF, etc, etc....OBTW...I rarely have to touch the trailer
brake control's manual...my TV pedal does that automatically

I'll stick with my anti-sway control system

PS...I do NOT like ABS either and think a false panacea for good driving skills

[mich800]

One thing to remember is just because you did not experience sway without the friction bar is more of an indication that you have a properly loaded and set up TT. I would not read into this scenario that the trucks active anti-sway was somehow preventing all sway.

[Heelshock]

gmw photos wrote: "If the vehicle dynamics system is doing it's thing to try to mitigate sway in just the truck, and ignoring the fact there is a trailer back there, how effective is the overall exercise ?"

My understanding is the truck does know there is a trailer back there, and it knows exactly what it is doing. The computer / mechanics of it were designed by uber-nerds, so I couldn't possibly understand how it all comes together. I did find a video about GMC sway control that I assume would be similar across the board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm_inXdTFsM

[gmw_photos]

sch911 wrote:
We're not talking about Integrated Brake controllers here. It's the trailer sway assist system that's built into the Vehicle Dynamics System (Traction and Skid).

Exactly my point in my earlier post. If the vehicle dynamics system is doing it's thing to try to mitigate sway in just the truck, and ignoring the fact there is a trailer back there, how effective is the overall exercise ? And I am truely "asking the question" , because I have no knowledge how all that stuff works. I guess in the back of my mind, I am thinking that also have a sway control hitch is still a good bit of added insurance.
Plus ans Ben and some others have pointed out, it's wise to stay within the load limits of the hitch and receiver whether we are running weight carrying or weight distribution.

Someone else said:
"I've never seen a friction sway control that specifically says it prevents sway. I'd contend it's also late to the game."

.... to which I reply, that is a true enough statement. However, it is also likely safe to say that the physical action of the sway control device is quicker to react than most drivers are, to say nothing of the fact that many times a driver trying to make these corrections manually, are not only innaccurate in their correction ( often over reacting ) but also "so late" to the game they are quite possibly making the situation worse, because they are in effect 180 degrees out of phase with the needed inputs.

[Heelshock]

I've never seen a friction sway control that specifically says it prevents sway. I'd contend it's also late to the game.

[APT]

I work on those systems. They can be effective at reacting to the sway once it happens as they detect difference in correlation between individual wheels speeds, steering wheel angle, yaw rate, and lateral acceleration. They react quite violently because they are so late to the event. However, I recommend using something that prevents it in the first place.

If your truck towed well without the friction sway, they the trucks's trailer sway system never was activated and the trailer is just well balanced.

[sch911]

We're not talking about Integrated Brake controllers here. It's the trailer sway assist system that's built into the Vehicle Dynamics System (Traction and Skid).

[BenK]

GMW...a VERY good point and now that you have me noodling that aspect...

It should or has to also be able to turn on the trailer brakes, other
wise while braking the TV in a severe condition...a potential jack knife
situation if the trailer brakes are NOT involved

The IBC's on some use the TV's ABS and traction control where they
can either or both set the TV's brakes at an individual wheel and
or reduce braking in one wheel

I would also assume that it can NOT provide additional throttle

So this situation would have the TV's IBC giving braking to any one
or more wheels, reducing braking in any one or more wheels, maybe
provide throttle (?...don't think it is at that level of computer
control yet...though throttle by wire has this ability there),
assume ABS buzzing on some that are skidding ***AND*** initiating
the trailer brakes to some level to 100% voltage

BUT...without the WD Hitch, can the TV manage the whole setup? What
about the TV's weight distribution? Will it be too light on the front
axle without the WD Hitch setup?

What does the IBC 'think' the TV's weight distribution is? Does it know
that the WD Hitch system is NOT there?....or does it assume that the
front axle is back to whatever weighting the manual instructs to setup?

[gmw_photos]

I would suspect/guess that the integrated sway control in the truck does more to mitigate sway of the truck than it does of the trailer. Unless it actually applies the trailer brakes to a greater or lesser degree than what the IBC would do in a normal braking event ?
One way to find out is to get it out on a wide deserted road early some sunday morning, and do some violent swerves back and forth at a reasonable speed. I did some testing like that when I first installed my BlueOx swaypro hitch.....and I can tell you that I "opened" all the drawers in the camper doing it !

[Heelshock]

sch911 wrote:
We have similar integrated sway control systems on our products also. The friction sway control should not have any affect on the electronic system that's integrated into the vehicle dynamics system. The integrated system uses it's internal inertial sensors to compensate so it just compensates less when you have a friction device installed. You can never have too much sway control when it comes to TT towing. I suggest you continue to use the friction system.

Thanks for the info. I'll put it back on there.

[RinconVTR]

This is not a fair comparison having never towed with the electronic Toyota sway control turned off. And as another said, electronic and mechanical systems are not related. You can use one or both, and if given the option, I would keep using both.

[goducks10]

I would be concerned about the tongue weight for the receivers non WD rating. Dry TW of 525 could be over 600lbs all loaded up. Most factory receivers are rated 500-5000lbs non WD.

[sch911]

We have similar integrated sway control systems on our products also. The friction sway control should not have any affect on the electronic system that's integrated into the vehicle dynamics system. The integrated system uses it's internal inertial sensors to compensate so it just compensates less when you have a friction device installed. You can never have too much sway control when it comes to TT towing. I suggest you continue to use the friction system.