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Trailer making my SUV lock up.

neoteric
Explorer
Explorer
I have a Jeep Cherokee SUV with towing package, and am pulling a Coleman travel trailer. I have a weight distribution bar.
It has electric brakes.

Without the trailer attached, I can go any speed I like.
Today, with the trailer attached, when I get up to about 50 MPH +, my SUV back brakes start locking up and smoking.

Things to know. I towed the vehicle with no problems for two summers, and earlier this summer with no problems..
I recently redid my back brakes on the suv, and have not towed the trailer until today.
I also added a sway bar to the trailer hitch between the last time I pulled the trailer, and this time.
When the brakes lock up, I think the ABS on the SUV is activating as well.

I would appreciate any opinions on this issue. I intend to travel across 3 states next week, and obviously cannot do so with this issue.

I searched these forums and the web about 3 hours before I posted this.
Thanks in advance.
44 REPLIES 44

OutdoorPhotogra
Explorer
Explorer
Great!
2008 Rockwood Signature Ultralite 5th Wheel
F-250 6.2 Gasser

Former PUP camper (Rockwood Popup Freedom 1980)

neoteric
Explorer
Explorer
As an update to anyone that cares, after adjusting the electric brake controller after the brake job, no problems. Drove the 2000 mile trip with no braking issues.

Did have a flat tire, unrelated...
Maine was beautiful!

Adam_H
Explorer
Explorer
enblethen wrote:
Another item, could be the flexible line that feeds the rear brakes. Fluid could get hot and cause an internal collapse.


BINGO.... Not saying this is your problem but I have replaced MANY flex lines in 10+ year old vehicles for doing exactly what you describe after the brakes get hot. Now that your controller is adjusted correctly and your brakes are not working as hard, it might not happen. That is until another situation causes the brakes to heat up. When the inside of the flex lines goes bad, it acts as a check valve. FWIW

Adam
2007 Fleetwood Avalon HW PUP
2001 Excursion 6.8L V10 3.73
2005 F150 5.4L
Gone but not Forgotten: 1971 Trailstar PUP, 2002 Fleetwood Wilderness Northwest Edition, 2002 Keystone Bobcat 280-EB

msb1766
Explorer
Explorer
I think your problem was that with the weight distribution hitch not set up properly that caused the rear end so sag down too much, activating the proportioning valve and the brake proportioning valve was sending too much pressure to the rear brakes. the valve was doing what it was designed to do but with the trailer weight it was putting on the rear brakes all the time.

enblethen
Nomad
Nomad
Another item, could be the flexible line that feeds the rear brakes. Fluid could get hot and cause an internal collapse.

Bud
USAF Retired
Pace Arrow


2003 Chev Ice Road Tracker

transamz9
Explorer
Explorer
neoteric wrote:
TLDR-Brakes were so worn before repair, that I needed to readjust controller after repair. Also, was hooking weight distribution incorrectly. Also, was using wrong terminology for "riding".

OK, thanks again to the 8 people who told me not to ride my brakes. I am not being sarcastic in saying that. I truly appreciate everyone who advised me. But I think I led folks astray from the real problem by saying that.

I wish I had not said that in this thread, as it was really a distraction. Turns out, I don't really ride my brakes. Again, I think I was using the wrong terminology, more on that later...

First, my friend who was a brake mechanic came over, tore down my brake job, FOUND NOTHING that was not right. This is not surprising, I have done many brake jobs before. Also- the calipers were not sticking at all.
Next, we went to take it for a ride.
Here is what we found out.
I was not using the terminology correctly. He noticed -I DO NOT RIDE my brakes, but I brake more than I should. That is, I dont have one foot on my brakes and one foot on the gas, which he explained as riding the brakes. Instead, I brake often, particularly because of nervousness while hauling. But as he said, this is not RIDING. I Seriously APOLOGIZE to all those that I misled with that terminology.I guess I did not really know what that all meant. (Although I did state that was unlikely the issue, and I do appreciate the insight from all into this.)

Recall I added a sway bar. This was because I was getting so much sway when large trucks, and campers passed me. This also made me brake a lot to slow down. I described this as riding, but it wasn't really. Moving on.

When I hooked up the camper, he realized I was not hooking the weight distribution bar correctly. Turns out, when I bought the camper, the person who showed me how to hook it up did not know what he was doing, and I was copying that. I was not raising the camper/vehicle up to get the chains taut. This means I was getting no advantage from the weight distribution hitch. (Which helped with my sway/nervousness/desire for sway bar.)
That was problem #1.
So we fixed that, hooked up the sway bar, and off we went. He then stated that my vehicle was not stopping correctly in conjunction with the trailer. That is, he felt the vehicle was trying to stop both the vehicle and trailer before trailer brakes were kicking in.
That was problem #2. So we readjusted by driving and testing in a big empty parking lot.

So here is the belief of myself and this friend who knew what he was doing.

The brakes were really worn on the towing vehicle (which I only use for towing, it is my third vehicle, so I dont use it daily) The worn brakes were so worn, that when I first adjusted my controller, it was working as it was supposed to, because there was so much play in the vehicle brakes.

When I replaced the shoes, rotors, and drum brakes (emergency brakes), I removed all that play, and the vehicle, when I was braking, now was trying to brake both the trailer and vehicle, before the the vehicle electric brakes kicked in. This may also have lead to the ABS kicking in, as I was braking but not stopping...

With the correct weight distribution set up, and the sway bar, and the readjusted brake controller, we were UNABLE to get the vehicle to lock up with about 2 hours of driving.

PS, I have no sway at all now, even when we pushed it up to 70. And the braking, which we both felt was off, now feels completely right. I THINK the problem is resolved.

PSS What really burns my shorts is that the guy who sold me the camper had NO IDEA how to hook up the weight distribution. He worked for a dealer! (I sent an email).. I paid attention to vehicle towing weight, trailer weight, overloading, etc. I researched GCVW,GVW,GTW and all that before I ever went on the road. I never drove fast. SO I was all in all responsible in my attempts at safety. And this guy put me in danger, as well as probably everyone else he showed. Now I would think I got it wrong, except my spouse is a witness to that, so I did not get it wrong, the guy did not know how to do it.


There is one thing that I can tell you to help with sway. If you start to get sway ( I know you said it's good now after the adjustment but) do not apply the vehicles brakes. Reach down to your brake controller and squeeze the lever on it slowly. What you want to do is apply brake to the the trailer only not to the tow vehicle. Applying the brakes on the tow vehicle can cause the sway to worsen.;)
2016 Ram 3500 Mega Cab Limited/2013 Ram 3500 SRW Cummins(sold)/2005 RAM 2500 Cummins/2011 Sandpiper 345 RET (sold) 2015 Sanibel 3601/2008 Nitro Z9 Mercury 250 PRO XS the best motor made.

TravelByJeep
Explorer
Explorer
nevadanick wrote:
Have you had to add brake fluid before you installed new brakes ? If so when you installed the new brakes the master cyclinder would now be over full and when the fluid gets hot it expands and locks the brakes.


The master cylinder does not get hot and is not used for an expansion reservoir. Fluid squeezed out of the calipers does however get forced back into the reservoir as long as it is not overfilled, if it is it will either leak out at the lid/cap or you will not be able to compress the calipers.

TravelByJeep
Explorer
Explorer
enblethen wrote:
Sounds logical!
When adding weight to the rear of the Jeep it compresses the suspension. On some vehicles, the weight proportioning valve could close off brake fluid to or from the rear brakes.
Many dealers have salesmen that are not familiar with the products he/she is pushing.


True, but not the case on a WJ Grand Cherokee 99-04

mkirsch
Nomad II
Nomad II
Just make sure you watch at least THREE videos on the same subject! There are a LOT of videos out there showing you the WRONG way to do things, either intentionally or out of ignorance.

Putting 10-ply tires on half ton trucks since aught-four.

keymastr
Explorer
Explorer
Sounds like you have it figured out now, congrats!

In the future go to YouTube and watch things done for yourself. Tons of camper videos showing how to do everything you can imagine.

bguy
Explorer
Explorer
My thoughts;
All the tires should be the same with about the same amount of wear on a 4 wheel drive vehicle.

The second thing seems to be confirmed by your recent post. If you rear tires were squatting out from the weight of the trailer, that may have made just enough difference in rotation speed to make the ABS believe the rear tires were spinning and engaging the ABS system. Highly probable if your rear tires are slightly more worn.
---------------------------------------
2011 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, 4x4, 3.55, HEMI
2009 TL-32BHS Trail-Lite by R-Vision

enblethen
Nomad
Nomad
Sounds logical!
When adding weight to the rear of the Jeep it compresses the suspension. On some vehicles, the weight proportioning valve could close off brake fluid to or from the rear brakes.
Many dealers have salesmen that are not familiar with the products he/she is pushing.

Bud
USAF Retired
Pace Arrow


2003 Chev Ice Road Tracker

neoteric
Explorer
Explorer
Now, if anyone thinks our analysis is wrong, please tell me. I do still have this trip planned.

neoteric
Explorer
Explorer
TLDR-Brakes were so worn before repair, that I needed to readjust controller after repair. Also, was hooking weight distribution incorrectly. Also, was using wrong terminology for "riding".

OK, thanks again to the 8 people who told me not to ride my brakes. I am not being sarcastic in saying that. I truly appreciate everyone who advised me. But I think I led folks astray from the real problem by saying that.

I wish I had not said that in this thread, as it was really a distraction. Turns out, I don't really ride my brakes. Again, I think I was using the wrong terminology, more on that later...

First, my friend who was a brake mechanic came over, tore down my brake job, FOUND NOTHING that was not right. This is not surprising, I have done many brake jobs before. Also- the calipers were not sticking at all.
Next, we went to take it for a ride.
Here is what we found out.
I was not using the terminology correctly. He noticed -I DO NOT RIDE my brakes, but I brake more than I should. That is, I dont have one foot on my brakes and one foot on the gas, which he explained as riding the brakes. Instead, I brake often, particularly because of nervousness while hauling. But as he said, this is not RIDING. I Seriously APOLOGIZE to all those that I misled with that terminology.I guess I did not really know what that all meant. (Although I did state that was unlikely the issue, and I do appreciate the insight from all into this.)

Recall I added a sway bar. This was because I was getting so much sway when large trucks, and campers passed me. This also made me brake a lot to slow down. I described this as riding, but it wasn't really. Moving on.

When I hooked up the camper, he realized I was not hooking the weight distribution bar correctly. Turns out, when I bought the camper, the person who showed me how to hook it up did not know what he was doing, and I was copying that. I was not raising the camper/vehicle up to get the chains taut. This means I was getting no advantage from the weight distribution hitch. (Which helped with my sway/nervousness/desire for sway bar.)
That was problem #1.
So we fixed that, hooked up the sway bar, and off we went. He then stated that my vehicle was not stopping correctly in conjunction with the trailer. That is, he felt the vehicle was trying to stop both the vehicle and trailer before trailer brakes were kicking in.
That was problem #2. So we readjusted by driving and testing in a big empty parking lot.

So here is the belief of myself and this friend who knew what he was doing.

The brakes were really worn on the towing vehicle (which I only use for towing, it is my third vehicle, so I dont use it daily) The worn brakes were so worn, that when I first adjusted my controller, it was working as it was supposed to, because there was so much play in the vehicle brakes.

When I replaced the shoes, rotors, and drum brakes (emergency brakes), I removed all that play, and the vehicle, when I was braking, now was trying to brake both the trailer and vehicle, before the the vehicle electric brakes kicked in. This may also have lead to the ABS kicking in, as I was braking but not stopping...

With the correct weight distribution set up, and the sway bar, and the readjusted brake controller, we were UNABLE to get the vehicle to lock up with about 2 hours of driving.

PS, I have no sway at all now, even when we pushed it up to 70. And the braking, which we both felt was off, now feels completely right. I THINK the problem is resolved.

PSS What really burns my shorts is that the guy who sold me the camper had NO IDEA how to hook up the weight distribution. He worked for a dealer! (I sent an email).. I paid attention to vehicle towing weight, trailer weight, overloading, etc. I researched GCVW,GVW,GTW and all that before I ever went on the road. I never drove fast. SO I was all in all responsible in my attempts at safety. And this guy put me in danger, as well as probably everyone else he showed. Now I would think I got it wrong, except my spouse is a witness to that, so I did not get it wrong, the guy did not know how to do it.