Tread squirm is for real!

[Dutch_Oven_Man]

Last summer, I had my first tire failure while pulling our fifth wheel on a very rough interstate, I broke one of the belts on my "E" load tires on my 1-ton. Fortunately, we made it to a tire store where I had two new tires put on. As I pulled back onto the interstate, I almost lost control of the truck, like I was driving on ice. It was the craziest experience I ever had pulling, and I have pulled a lot of miles in 25 years.

To give you some background, I have run BFG KO's for the last 15 years with no problems. They no longer make the particular tire I had on the truck, so I bought the BFG KO II's, which looked similar to my other tires, but apparently has softer rubber/side walls. After my ice skating incident, I checked and re-checked the tire pressure thinking something was wrong, and re-tightened the lug nuts. After about 1,500 miles on the truck, it didn't get any better so I yanked them off and changed brands.

I didn't have a chance to break the new tires in before our first trip, and took off on a 300 mile trip on a brand new set of tires. Again, the truck was real squirrely, but by the end of the trip, it appeared to be getting better. We drove it around for a month unloaded, letting the tires get good and broke in, and took another trip this past weekend. I can finally say the truck is back to handling like it's supposed to.

Moral of the story, don't pull a 13,000 trailer on a brand new set of tires. I nearly bought the farm five miles from the tire store on the KO's, and it took a good 2,000 miles for the second set of tires to settle in, but all is good now.

[coolmom42]

I've experienced some tread squirm on every set of tires (all Michelins, on all Toyota vehicles) I've bought in the last 20 years.... on everything from a Corolla to a Sequoia. It is usually noticeable for about 400-500 miles. I try to avoid driving on wet roads with new tires, and if I must, am extremely careful.

[DaveF-250SD]

At work I sometimes drive a 2015 Silverado 2500HD Government truck. The original tires were Firestone Transforce, which were great, and very stable while towing. New tires were put on it in December, Iron Man All Country. These new tires are very squirmy. Like the roadway is covered in BBs or marbles. My own '78 GMC one ton SRW pickup has Transforce tires as well, and are very stable towing and unloaded. Same with the BFG T/A KO's on my 2004 F-250 SD. I will never buy Iron Man tires for any of my own vehicles after experiencing them on the Government Silverado.

[bluie5]

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. I have 20 inch wheels with Michelin tires. Can’t remember what model tires though.

[ajcal225]

I had very similar experiences with the new BFG AT's. I also found they would only last 8-10K miles, vs the 35K i would get out of the old tires.

I'll never buy a BFG tire again.

[CapriRacer]

BenK wrote:
....... About the same time Michelin started advertising 'silicone' in their compounds. ......

I think you mean silica - an ingredient in tread rubber that improves rolling resistance and partially replaces carbon black.

By contrast, silicone is a polymer that is sometimes used as a lubricant. It also has the property that very little adheres to it, so it can not be used in a tire factory. The rubbers used to make tires are very incompatible with it.

[BenK]

Noticed that around early 2000's, where they did NOT have that in all of the tires owned before. To clarify...have always 'broken in' new tires, but these days...much longer to do so. Used to be just a couple hundred miles...now many hundreds to a couple thousand miles...

About the same time Michelin started advertising 'silicone' in their compounds...

More so with smaller cross section tread blocks...and/or...those with heavy sipe'ing as part of their design

Even with the now "who owns who" world of tires...their 'other' factory/badge/models/etc are not the same across them

Have NOT noticed this on higher speed rated 'P' rated tires...yet...

[wnjj]

I wonder if there’s more to it than friction. When it happened to me it felt like I was driving on rubber fingers. Even going straight felt wiggly where driving straight on ice does not. Maybe the tread blocks are more plyable until they heat cycle several times?

I’ve only noticed it one time over several new sets of tires. Maybe the vehicle’s response aggravates it?

[Community Alumni]

I know this is a real big issue when I put new tires on my motorcycle. I'm careful anyway on my motorcycle, but I ride like an 80 year old on an electric scooter for the first 100 miles when breaking in new tires on the bike.

This is good information since I didn't even think that it would be a big issue with my truck and trailer. Note to self: Break in new tires on truck before towing my 14,000 lb 5th wheel.

[CapriRacer]

JBarca wrote:
........ Question: What does the mold release do that creates the tire instability when used on a vehicle for the first few thousand miles?

Is the mold release changing the coefficient on friction of the tire to the road and the truck sliding or is this some other effect?

Can the mold release be cleaned off or reduced in some manner to help reduce the problem or the time to have it wear off? (Something the new owner of the tires can do.)

Thanks

John

First I am speculating that that is the cause - but it does fit the facts available. On the other hand, I am aware that wax is part of a tire's rubber compound and I know that those accumulate on the tire surface while in storage. That also fits the available facts.

Second, I am not aware that anyone has tried to sort this out, let alone tried some remedial action.

Like you said, I suspect there is a reduction in the coefficient of friction and making the vehicle act like it is on a low friction surface such as wet pavement.

2 things of interest here: Not all wet pavement is slippery. Some wet surfaces have pretty high coeffients and so long as the speed is low enough not to generate hydroplaning effects, many folks experience little difference from the dry.

But some wet surfaces get close to the coefficent of ice - and those have caught many a driver by surprise. I would think that this issue would act more like that!

Further I would suspect the combination of new tires and wet pavement would be quite bad. So I urge everyone to be especially careful with new tires.

(BTW, I do know of instances involving passenger car tires, so this is not an issue isolated to RV's and tow vehicles, but I do not know if the issue appears on larger trucks. A post above hinted at that.)

Potential fixes? I don't know what the compound actually is. In the back of my mind I recall silicone being mentioned - but silicone ALWAYS causes such severe problems in other parts of the tire making process that I don't think that is true.

So if the mold release compound is dissolvable in some solvent (maybe even water?), I just don't have a clue. If it is the waxes, I know several people have tried to remove those without success - or at least not without damaging the tire in the process.

Maybe someone reading this could try the next time they buy tires? First suggestion - water and a scrub brush.

[Dutch_Oven_Man]

It's funny how after nearly 30 years of pulling every type of trailer there is, I'm still learning something new, and usually the hard way! Now that I know what can happen with new tires, I'll always make sure I have a few miles on a tire before I take off on a long trip.

[JBarca]

CapriRacer wrote:
I suspect all this is about the mold release compound used in the manufacture of the tires. This is sprayed into the curing (aka vulcanization) mold just before the tire is put in. I can easily imagine that it penetrates a few molecules into the tread rubber and takes several hundred miles before it wears off.

I think this is plant specific and not brand specific, but I am willing to concede that maybe a particular manufacturer uses the same mold release compound in all its plants. There will be multiple brands made in the same plant, so if my conjecture is correct, all those brands would be affected.

So the word is: When replacing tires, before careful the first few hundred miles. (I think this might apply to passenger car tires as well!)

Capri Racer,

Thanks for your insight on this effect. The mold release, I know of this from plastic injection molding, however I have not heard about it on tires.

Question: What does the mold release do that creates the tire instability when used on a vehicle for the first few thousand miles?

Is the mold release changing the coefficient on friction of the tire to the road and the truck sliding or is this some other effect?

Can the mold release be cleaned off or reduced in some manner to help reduce the problem or the time to have it wear off? (Something the new owner of the tires can do.)

Thanks

John

[ACZL]

When our shop puts new recaps on my semi, back end is quite squrilly for couple thousand miles. Then like others have said, settle down.

[CapriRacer]

I suspect all this is about the mold release compound used in the manufacture of the tires. This is sprayed into the curing (aka vulcanization) mold just before the tire is put in. I can easily imagine that it penetrates a few molecules into the tread rubber and takes several hundred miles before it wears off.

I think this is plant specific and not brand specific, but I am willing to concede that maybe a particular manufacturer uses the same mold release compound in all its plants. There will be multiple brands made in the same plant, so if my conjecture is correct, all those brands would be affected.

So the word is: When replacing tires, before careful the first few hundred miles. (I think this might apply to passenger car tires as well!)

[JBarca]

bluie5 wrote:
Had the same thing when my truck was new. After several hundred miles everything settled down.

What tire brand, tread type and tire size do you have on your 2016 F350? This would be good to know.