Sold the Honda 2000i and got a 2200i , now I can run the AC

[marcsbigfoot20b]

So even with the Micro Air I could not start my 13.5K Duo Therm Brisk Air (18 years old) when the temps were above 90 in Phoenix (1400 ft). This was even Eco turned off. Sold the EU2000i last week and ordered a EU2200i.

Broke it in last night then tried the AC in the trailer at 95 degrees. Fired right up like nothing.....tried in Eco mode, fired right up!!

I have to say the 2200i seems to be a way more capable generator then the 2000i. During break in I threw some good loads at it including a 1250 watt hair dryer and a box heater 1500 Watts at the same time (2750 watts) and it cranked up like it had a turbo mode.
Did notice however in the trailer killawatt was reading 128 volts at no load.....seemed a bit high.

[3_tons]

Well I’m pasting this update over from the Truck Camper section in hopes that it may benefit some:

To recap, the below OP quotes is a brief summary, followed by an todays update - air conditioner is a Coleman mach 1 P.S. 11k btu, 9 years old...I just replaced my Honda 2000i with a 2200i

“3 tons wrote:

(First OP Update)

Thanks to All !!....So at 90df in my garage I took the cover off the rooftop Coleman 11k btu Mach 1 P.S. and using a clamp-on RMS meter at the compressor (excluding fan), I came up with this while having no other appliances on...

On shore power:
Shore power volts, no load 117v
Shore power volts w/compressor running 113v
Volts at compressor 111 to 112v
Amps at comp motor (minus fan) 9.2a

On new Honda 2200i:
Volts at Generator, no load 127v
Volts at Generator, w/compressor running 124v
Volts at compressor 120v
Amps at compressor (minus fan) 9.4 to 9.5a

The results seem a bit ambiguous, but it appears that the compressor amps are high - If I can believe Colemans specs of 9.0 total amps (incl. fan) at 95df (90df during my test), and the fan is supposedly using about 2.5a, then the actual compressor only amps should be about 6.5a, which (if correct) means that the compressor is using 2.5-3.0 extra amps than the specs call for. Seems like quite an overage to me, yet the air runs fine otherwise - maybe a bad omen awaits - lol

The air unit is about 9.5 yrs old, but has not been used a whole lot...I have run it off the inverter only occasionally (for brief times), but the inverter seems to have no problem starting or running it, shore power always works too - Operationally, it’s only the genny that struggles (only when on Eco...), except when the inverter is set to ‘standby mode’ to assist with compressor starts...And this charicteristic is when at higher ambient temps and elevations (4,800’), so it’s not clear to me that it’s all that unusual (I just don’t know....??)....Absent other issues causes me to ponder the ‘outside-chance’ as to whether Coleman’s published spec’s for this particular unit are quite accurate or possibly outdated...Maybe just ‘wishful thinking’ here, admittedly, I have no other experience with a Coleman air conditioner...

3 tons”


Today’s OP update:

So I changed out the ‘Run’ capacitor with a new one, but first tested the OEM run cap and found (via multi-meter) that it had no charge and would not take a charge, though visually it appeared normal (no leaks or bulges) ...

I also checked the ‘start’ cap (though it is disconnected and unnecessary due to the installation of the Soft-start) and it checked out good...

After installing the new run cap, the compressor ONLY amps (measured after a 30 min warm-up - using clamp-on meter) had dropped from about 9.5 to 6.5, which puts it well within Coleman’s published rating - I applaud their accurate numbers!...However what begs the question is how the compressor could run with a faulty run capacitor, unless the HyperEngineering soft start somehow was able to meter out the power deficit ??

Either way, I’m satisfied for the time being, but what I’ve yet to mention is that during these many trials I also tried to restore the air unit back to OEM by disconnecting the Soft-start and reinstalling the start cap and found that the fan would run but after many repeated trys the compressor would not start... As I said, the start cap measured out just fine, but ultimately this may be an indication that the compressor when at LRA (locked rotor amps) trips its own internal overload device with the start cap in the circuit, whereas the soft-start (start cap defeated) apparently is able to meter out this high current inrush, so the compressor overload never bothers to engage...

Hope this added info helps!

3 tons

[kincade]

RollandB wrote:
Our AC is a Coleman Mach 15k. Is anyone out their running this with a Micro Start and Honda 2200?

Been seriously looking at selling my Honda 2000 and replacing with a Champion Duel Fuel 3500.

I'm in the same boat. Sold my Honda twins and bought a Champion 3100. It runs my 15K Coleman Mach just fine, but it is NOT as quiet as my Honda Twins - to my ears it's not even close.

I'd love to see if anyone has run the Honda 2200 and 15k BTU with an easy start at altitude - 4,000-7500ft. The Yamaha is a contender too but it's a beast to lift.

[ChuckSteed]

I’d also recommend you start mixing Seafoam in with your fuel and run it all the time. Your carb will always stay clean and you won’t have to worry about winterizing it

[RollandB]

Our AC is a Coleman Mach 15k. Is anyone out their running this with a Micro Start and Honda 2200?

Been seriously looking at selling my Honda 2000 and replacing with a Champion Duel Fuel 3500.

[theoldwizard1]

pnichols wrote:
This portable is almost in the sweet spot, if you can tolerate it's weight: https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/generator/models/ef2400ishc

Yes, the Yamaha EF2400iSHC is nice and very close to the sweet spot I mentioned. The EF2800i (open frame) actually weights a tad less, has a larger fuel tank and makes more power. Both are $$,$$$.

pnichols wrote:
IMHO, the ultimate portable generator sweet spot is a couple of Honda EU2000i gennys in parallel - plenty of power, reasonable weight per lift, quiet when not having to run full bore, and providing partial 120V AC backup if one of the two should fail when drycamping. You just have to be able to afford this real sweet spot.

Hard to argue with your logic, but your last sentence sums it up !

[ktmrfs]

naturist wrote:
Folks on here (myself included) have been saying for years that a 2000 watt generator is right at the bleeding edge of being able to start and run a 13,500 btu AC. The OP's experience pretty much proves it, doesn't it? 2,000 was able to start it under ideal conditions, but make it a little hot or less than ideal, and it couldn't do it. Switch to a 2200 watt generator, and what a difference those extra 200 watts make.

exactly. the 2000 is "almost adequate" while the 2200 is "barely adequate". Barely and almost are NOT the same!!!

I think also part of the difference is that the 2200 has a 25% larger engine so it likely can provide the rated output at a higher altitude.

to show the engine difference, our 2000 would overload on the AC at 4500ft. the 2200 at 4500ft not only runs the AC but will run the fridge on AC, another 300W and not overload. If the only difference was the rated output, the 2200 wouldn't be able to also run the fridge load of 300W.

[naturist]

Folks on here (myself included) have been saying for years that a 2000 watt generator is right at the bleeding edge of being able to start and run a 13,500 btu AC. The OP's experience pretty much proves it, doesn't it? 2,000 was able to start it under ideal conditions, but make it a little hot or less than ideal, and it couldn't do it. Switch to a 2200 watt generator, and what a difference those extra 200 watts make.

[burningman]

In the big picture it’s very affordable. Here’s why I think so:
In the very early 2000s I bought two Honda EU2000s. I used them for 12 years, in some very dirty and corrosive environments. I didn’t really maintain them very enthusiastically.
A couple years ago I decided to put ‘em on Craigslist for $1400, just so I could order myself a brand new pair.
I didn’t need to, they still worked perfectly and if no one paid the full price I’d have gladly just kept them. But they did sell, and I ordered my new pair for $1800.

So, it effectively cost $200 each to have them 12 years.
Now I’m considering trying the same thing again just to upgrade to a set of 2200s.

My favorite thing about running two is that even when one can handle a fairly big load, a pair will do it just barely above idle and is more pleasant sounding.

Hondas are pricey up front but in the long run buying quality usually saves money.
I had no trouble with them and you can go right online and buy literally any part right down to the washers or rubber spacers.

[pnichols]

theoldwizard1 wrote:
I still say, all of the small generator manufacturers are missing the "sweet spot". 2800-3000W peak, 2400-2500W continuous. The few that are out there are too large, maybe because they need a larger gas tank.

This portable is almost in the sweet spot, if you can tolerate it's weight: https://www.yamahamotorsports.com/generator/models/ef2400ishc

IMHO, the ultimate portable generator sweet spot is a couple of Honda EU2000i gennys in parallel - plenty of power, reasonable weight per lift, quiet when not having to run full bore, and providing partial 120V AC backup if one of the two should fail when drycamping. You just have to be able to afford this real sweet spot.

[marcsbigfoot20b]

theoldwizard1 wrote:
I am glad it is working for you !

I still say, all of the small generator manufacturers are missing the "sweet spot". 2800-3000W peak, 2400-2500W continuous. The few that are out there are too large, maybe because they need a larger gas tank.

I would like to see a small generator like the EU2200i with a tiny turbo. No more loss at altitude

[theoldwizard1]

I am glad it is working for you !

I still say, all of the small generator manufacturers are missing the "sweet spot". 2800-3000W peak, 2400-2500W continuous. The few that are out there are too large, maybe because they need a larger gas tank.

[ktmrfs]

On the 2200i, my experience is it is a significant improvement over the 2000i.

1) the engine is now 125cc vs 98cc on the 2000i
2) rated output is up by 200W
3) I have the service manual for the 2200i. typical output voltage curve shows a no load output voltage of 126VRMS and a full load rated output voltage of 120V RMS.

My experience with the 2000 with the micro air at 4500ft and 95F is it would easily start my Coleman MachIII AC but would trip the micro air overload after running 10 minutes or so, then restart the AC after 5 minutes and repeat.

With the 2200i at the same altitude and temp, not only would the honda run the AC easily for hours on end, but also run the fridge on AC (an additional 300W load)

And it has a run dry mode on the fuel switch.

Add to this my brother with a micro air tried his honda 2200i with his AC unit at 7000ft. Once everything else was turned off, the honda was running the AC unit pretty much continously. He did need to turn off eco mode to keep it from overloading, and on occasion on first turning on the AC would run for 5 minutes or so, turn off the AC then restart after 5 minutes then continue to run the AC for a few hours as needed.

the micro air has it's own overload protection for the AC unit monitoring the AC motor rpm and when it detects to much of an rpm drop along with a few other measurments turns off the AC for 5 minutes then restarts.

The nice feature is that if one has the AC on and accidentally turns on something like the microwave, the micro air drops out the AC unit before the generator overloads, lets the microwave or other load run then after 5 minutes will try to restart the AC.

[MEXICOWANDERER]

No one's ever had a problem running running 120vac rated USA stuff down here with Mexican rated 127vac power. The real test of a prime mover is a high head re-start.

Shut the A/C down when it's good and warmed up, then try and re-start it a minute later. If it bogs the generator, it has to be avoided by a) no run b) continuous running of the load.

[SoundGuy]

road-runner wrote:
Honda inverter generators normally output about 128 volts with no load, and are pulled down to about 120 at their rated continuous load.

Both of my EU2000i gensets maximum unloaded output voltage was 126 vac.

[marcsbigfoot20b]

Lynnmor wrote:

marcsbigfoot20b27 wrote:


Broke it in last night then tried the AC in the trailer at 95 degrees. During break in I threw some good loads at it including a 1250 watt hair dryer and a box heater 1500 Watts at the same time (2750 watts).

So what is the break in procedure, I see nothing in the manual? Typically it is a good idea to run new equipment gently for a period of time.

This is what I did....
1. Dino oil, run it for 15 min no load with magnetic dipstick, then vary from eco to non eco a few times. Drain oil, clean dipstick, refill oil.

2. Run for 5 min, put hairdryer or vaiable loads between 250-1000 watts for 10 seconds followed by no load for 5 minutes, both on regular and Eco mode a few times. Drain oil, clean dipstick, refill oil.

3. Run for 5 min, hit it with max load for 10 seconds then no load for 5 min. Repeat using Eco mode (to vary rpms and throttle) do this a few times. Idle for 5-10 min then do what you want for load....run no load for 5 min, drain Dino oil and clean dipstick (wont be much on it anymore).

The whole thing took me about 1.5 hours.

4. Fill with Mobil 1 and enjoy.