The Official unofficial CPE 2000i Generator Thread

[pritch272]

8/1/2010 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: Champion Inverter and Remote Gens Promo on CPE's web site)

3/22/2011 edit: Thread renamed ...
Renamed from: Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

3/23/2011 edit: Thread renamed at the suggestion of the Professor.
Renamed from: (Un)Official CPE 2000 Watt Inverter Generator Thread

Inverter Available August 2010



Remote Available July 2010

[msmd1]

professor95 wrote:

Northern is also carrying the remote start 3,500 watt synchronous model.

I was disappointed at the Northern price, but that is controlled by Northern, not CPE.

There is at least one other supplier scheduled to come on line by the end of December.

I do not know if any of the software related to the time a surge current can exist has been changed or not.

The Northern Tool link shows the remote start unit as 4000/3500W, not 3500/3000W like the black and yellow one. What's the story?

[professor95]

-=dwh=- wrote:

curt12914 wrote:

-=dwh=- wrote:
I'm looking at that pic of the Category5 on Northern Tool's site - and I don't see any 12v apparatus. No connections, no receptacle, no breaker.

I certainly wouldn't let the lack of a 12 volt system, deter me. In fact, I have never used the 12 volt system on my Hondas and I have no plans to ever use it.

Most (if not all) inverter generators that have a 12 volt system, charge at a constant rate (about 8 amps, I believe). This rate is very slow for a discharged battery, but will still overcharge ("boil") a fully charged battery.

And pretty much all unregulated as well. Actually, I think that applies to most small generators which have a 12v system - inverter style or normal style.

Perhaps I should have been clearer...

Despite what the description on the Northern Tool site says, and despite what the professor said when he quoted that ad coppy - it appears that the Cat5 does not have a 12v system after all.

Therefore if anyone is looking to purchase a generator for its 12v capability, the Cat5 might not be the best choice.


(Something about Grandmother and suck eggs and whatnot...)

Man, that's a lot of quotes up there. 🙂

Nope, I do not see a 12 volt connection in the photo either. But, the specs say a 12 VDC charging cable is included so my guess is it must go somewhere.

Ad photos are not always accurate either. Some sort of fancy photo artist usually sets them up to look extra good. In short, they can be wrong, or the plug-in could be located somewhere else on the case. I guess we will just have to wait and see a real one.

As for the battery charging circuit I have found all of them to be unregulated and most certainly not a processor controlled 3 or 4 stage charger. They can be handy when nothing else is available - but I prefer to plug my own charger into the 120 AC when I use a genny to recharge my batteries.

Just a side note, I was pleasantly surprised to discover that the 3,500 electric start used a LM317 type adjustable voltage regulator for the internal battery rather than just a single diode off a charging coil.

[-_dwh_-]

curt12914 wrote:

-=dwh=- wrote:
I'm looking at that pic of the Category5 on Northern Tool's site - and I don't see any 12v apparatus. No connections, no receptacle, no breaker.

I certainly wouldn't let the lack of a 12 volt system, deter me. In fact, I have never used the 12 volt system on my Hondas and I have no plans to ever use it.

Most (if not all) inverter generators that have a 12 volt system, charge at a constant rate (about 8 amps, I believe). This rate is very slow for a discharged battery, but will still overcharge ("boil") a fully charged battery.

And pretty much all unregulated as well. Actually, I think that applies to most small generators which have a 12v system - inverter style or normal style.

Perhaps I should have been clearer...

Despite what the description on the Northern Tool site says, and despite what the professor said when he quoted that ad copy - it appears that the Cat5 does not have a 12v system after all.

Therefore if anyone is looking to purchase a generator for its 12v capability, the Cat5 might not be the best choice.


(Something about Grandmother and suck eggs and whatnot...)

[curt12914]

greenrvgreen wrote:
I'm glad Curt continues to post on this thread, he has a valuable perspective to share, IMO.

FWIW, Curt was an early "voice of sanity" regarding the champion gennies. When all sorts of wild (and false) claims were made regarding these products, Curt calmy related his own experiences and praise of the Champion 3500, and because he was a Honda owner his words carried more weight with the red-only crowd.

I also agree with him now. As I learn more about the 2000 watt inverter, the more I am convinced that the price will have to improve, or I will buy a Honda as my first inverter gennie. $100 is not a significant tradeoff for slightly lower performance specs, and an unknown reliability factor. While there's no reason to doubt Champion as a company, Honda has earned its rep for reliability.

The more I use my beloved Champion 3500, the higher the bar goes for my next gennie, Honda and Champion included. IMO, for any job the 3500 is appropriate for, it dominates its category, and at a much lower price. I'm not seeing anything like that yet with the inverter gennie, in fact it seems slightly weaker than the Honda, or else I've misunderstood.

Thank you for the kind words! 😮 I will tell my DW that SOMEONE agrees with me!!!!!!!

[curt12914]

-=dwh=- wrote:
I'm looking at that pic of the Category5 on Northern Tool's site - and I don't see any 12v apparatus. No connections, no receptacle, no breaker.

I certainly wouldn't let the lack of a 12 volt system, deter me. In fact, I have never used the 12 volt system on my Hondas and I have no plans to ever use it.

Most (if not all) inverter generators that have a 12 volt system, charge at a constant rate (about 8 amps, I believe). This rate is very slow for a discharged battery, but will still overcharge ("boil") a fully charged battery.

If battery charging is what you're looking for, either use your converter / charger (even if you have to upgrade the charging system) or buy yourself a smart charger. Either will sense the battery voltage and vary the charge rate to the battery depending on how much charge the battery has. In other words, it will charge a discharged battery much faster than the generator would with the 12 volt system or top off a near fully charged battery without overcharging it.

[Old___Slow]

greenrvgreen wrote:
I'm glad Curt continues to post on this thread, he has a valuable perspective to share, IMO.

FWIW, Curt was an early "voice of sanity" regarding the champion gennies. When all sorts of wild (and false) claims were made regarding these products, Curt calmy related his own experiences and praise of the Champion 3500, and because he was a Honda owner his words carried more weight with the red-only crowd.

I also agree with him now.

I too agree Curt has been fair. Honda has been the one to set the Gold Standard for the market. Some of the Honda K/O's are giving them a run for their money (product), it seems. The way I see it from all the posts on this thread, the 2000 watt Inverter class has broken out in three groups. Those with the 79/80 cc engine, Champion being one, those with the 98 cc engine Honda being one, and many others with the 125 cc engine. 'Power House' with the 125 engine has been featured by Professor95 and others. It is said to be able to operate an RV A/C and comes with Electric Start and Remote Control @ about $699.

We wait others to give us their own experience with the Champion 2000 Watt Inverter units, what ever the color;)

Is it not a fact that one cc will only produce so much power? So yes, the Champion is the weak one. How long will Champion lag behind? Perhaps they already have a new model just waiting to come to market. As Professor95 states, he knew about the Champions now on the market Inverter years ago. I think my mantel with hold a big sock. Have I been a good boy & 77?:h

[-_dwh_-]

I'm looking at that pic of the Category5 on Northern Tool's site - and I don't see any 12v apparatus. No connections, no receptacle, no breaker.

[professor95]

curt12914 wrote:

Since Cabelas offered the 3500 for so long (and still offers it), I'm surprised they haven't offered the 2000 inverter.

It is just a matter of time.....a short time. 😉

[professor95]

greenrvgreen wrote:
I'm glad Curt continues to post on this thread, he has a valuable perspective to share, IMO.

Curt is cool. I have no problem with him being here. I just didn't understand his agenda.

[greenrvgreen]

I'm glad Curt continues to post on this thread, he has a valuable perspective to share, IMO.

FWIW, Curt was an early "voice of sanity" regarding the champion gennies. When all sorts of wild (and false) claims were made regarding these products, Curt calmy related his own experiences and praise of the Champion 3500, and because he was a Honda owner his words carried more weight with the red-only crowd.

I also agree with him now. As I learn more about the 2000 watt inverter, the more I am convinced that the price will have to improve, or I will buy a Honda as my first inverter gennie. $100 is not a significant tradeoff for slightly lower performance specs, and an unknown reliability factor. While there's no reason to doubt Champion as a company, Honda has earned its rep for reliability.

The more I use my beloved Champion 3500, the higher the bar goes for my next gennie, Honda and Champion included. IMO, for any job the 3500 is appropriate for, it dominates its category, and at a much lower price. I'm not seeing anything like that yet with the inverter gennie, in fact it seems slightly weaker than the Honda, or else I've misunderstood.

[curt12914]

So, if you have two Honda's and are happy with them and have no intention of purchasing a CPE 2000i why are you here?

Is your intent to undermine the 2000i and CPE or is there some other agenda that I am not aware of?

I'm here because I am interested in generators. I've spent thousands over the years making mistakes (I have 3 mistakes in my cellar!) I hope I can help others from making the same mistakes.

I have often recommended the Champion 3500 generator, both on here and in person, as a low cost alternative to expensive inverter generators. The Champion is quieter than most open frame generators, inepensive, has an RV plug, but it's biggest attraction is that it doesn't break the bank!

Differirng opinions is what makes this forum great. ...and I certainly don't take it personally.

A good friend of mine bought a Champion, based on my recommendation. He has had relatively good luck with it.

The success of the 3500 was not because of their low price. It was because of the reputation CPE has earned for a quality product, excellent tech support, continued service and parts availability.

While I agree somewhat with your statement, my experience is that most people buy the 3500 watt Champion because they are inexpensive. I have seen many posts where people have stated that they won't put much money into repairs, since they can buy a replacement for $299 right now and a few years ago, some were buying them for $199.

Established companies are constantly introducing new, unproven equipment. Truck engines, suspensions, transmissions, ECM units, etc. We accept them because we have confidence in the engineering and commitment to quality a company offers - not how long a design has been on the market.

Again I agree somewhat, but companies come and go, even companies with good products and good reputations. Glendale (Titanium) and Holiday Rambler are a couple well respected RV companies that didn't make it through tough times. HR was lucky enough to be brought back by Navistar, but Glendale closed it's doors.

What happens if Champion doesn't survive? Where will anyone buy replacement parts. The same could happen to Honda or Yamaha, but they are old companies and more likely to make it. Even if they didn't, they are so popular, I would expect some other company to buy the rights to make replacement parts.

Yes, the Honda is a proven product. No question about it. But that does not make other products inferior.

IMHO, the Champion hasn't been around long enough to know if they are compatable in quality to Honda / Yamaha.

That is one of the reasons I chose a Volvo HDT. Now there is something with a proven performance record. I think everyone should own one.

Ok, we disagree again.

We have all brands of HDT trucks at work. The older Volvo HDT's were OK, but the newer HDT's with a Volvo (or Mercedes) engine, have a terrible reputation. Since the Volvo / Mack "marriage", their quality has gone downhill in a big way.

I guess that's another argument for another thread...

And by the way,

MrWizard wrote:
and champion has documented proff on this forum of excellent customer service and parts availability

My buddy had a carb problem with his Champion and Champion was willing to help him. Unfortunately, finding someone locally that would work on it was not so easy. He finally did, but it was a small individually owned shop where the guy has a "real job" and does small engine work evenings and weekends.

If the problem had been in the generator instead of the engine, I doubt he could have found someone in our rural area, to work on it.

I'm sure if it were a Honda or Yamaha, that wouldn't have been the case.

IIRC sams club carries the inverter model for $499, and has been posted several times

It has also been posted several times that many Sam's Clubs aren't carrying them. I believe someone said (earlier in this thread) there were none (at Sam's Club) available in the state of California.

The ohter problem with Sam's Club is they often offer an item for a short time and never stock the item again. Time will tell if that's the case with the Champion inverter.

Since Cabelas offered the 3500 for so long (and still offers it), I'm surprised they haven't offered the 2000 inverter.

[DrBaker]

orionpaxx wrote:
OT- anyone out there have an easy method to keep a trailers exterior lights on while disconnected from the tow veh.? send me a message.

Plug a flat tab style automotive fuse into the 2 top positions of the cord.

[orionpaxx]

hello all,

just giving a little update. i've been powering my espresso/coffee trailer with my 2 CPE inverters without a single hiccup.
the trailer is setup as follows
constantly running are,
2 45 watt CFL bulbs
commercial fridge about 400- 600 watts
water heater about 1000 watts (occasionally)
water pump .5 amp
small stereo

i run the 2 inverters on econ all day because the espresso machine automatically kicks on every 10 min or so with a load of 1700 watts. the gens keep right up with it.
when i brew coffee, i'll put the espresso machine on standby and turn on the brewers (1300 watts).

i'm very happy with my choice.

i brought the gens in to change the oil today, first change, only about 10 hours on each one.
the oil was pretty dark and i noticed a few metal splinters on my hands where i spilled some oil, i'm guessing that's normal on the first oil change. Prof, does the 100 hour recommendation for the oil change seems adequate?

one issue i'm going to fix this week is, i want to add a quicker disconnect to the ground terminal for the parallel kit. it's not east to move them both at the same time without unscrewing the ground nut with a nut driver.

OT- anyone out there have an easy method to keep a trailers exterior lights on while disconnected from the tow veh.? send me a message.

have fun
Jay

[professor95]

curt12914 wrote:


I am very happy with my Hondas. The only reason I would consider the Champion's is to save a significant amount of money. I guess I would rather spend a little more for a proven product, rather than be a guinea pig on a new mousetrap. Parts and service, down the road, scare me a little with the Champion.

IMHO, in order to be successful, the Champion inverters are going to need to be priced under $500. If I was going to pay more than that, I would rather pay for the proven product. The success of the 3500 was because of their low price. Most people were willing to take a chance, since they were cheap. If they had problems, they were willing to throw them out rather than repair them.

So, if you have two Honda's and are happy with them and have no intention of purchasing a CPE 2000i why are you here?

Is your intent to undermine the 2000i and CPE or is there some other agenda that I am not aware of?

The success of the 3500 was not because of their low price. It was because of the reputation CPE has earned for a quality product, excellent tech support, continued service and parts availability. Compared to other Chinese built generators the purchase is a no brainier.

CPE spent three years engineering, testing and developing their inverter. I first learned of their inverter prototypes in early 2007. They easily could have brought the product to market much earlier, but wanted to be sure it was going to be rock solid. Based on what I know about their past and current synchronous generators I had no reservations in buying two 2000i units a couple of months ago. Their performance is impressive.

Established companies are constantly introducing new, unproven equipment. Truck engines, suspensions, transmissions, ECM units, etc. We accept them because we have confidence in the engineering and commitment to quality a company offers - not how long a design has been on the market.

I've been testing and writing about portable camping generators for over five years. The 3,000 Watt Chinese Generator Info thread I started and have shepherded for almost six years is one of the longest running and most viewed/commented on this entire forum. There are not many camping generators I have not tested or own. I've got a pretty good idea of what is good and what is not.

Yes, the Honda is a proven product. No question about it. But that does not make other products inferior.

Just differing opinions, Curt. Nothing is intended to be confrontational. This is one of those no-winner issues when it comes to the debate. Sort of like Ford-Chevy-Dodge/diesel-gas. That is one of the reasons I chose a Volvo HDT. Now there is something with a proven performance record. I think everyone should own one. :W


A photo of an EARLY Champion Inverter generator. This was a prototype that received extensive testing and revising rather than just throwing it out on the market.

[MrWizard]

this same price comparison post has been made several times

and champion has documented proff on this forum of excellent customer service and parts availability

IIRC sams club carries the inverter model for $499, and has been posted several times

there is always somebody selling something for a higher price and that includes somebody selling honda 2000ui for $1200

if the low price of a honda is $800 and the low price of the cpe is $499 , I call $300 significant savings