Will "Smart Vehicles" and their marketing cause more crashes

[rhagfo]

I will start this post with quotes from the 2017 F150 post.

spoon059 wrote:

rhagfo wrote:
We have already seen deaths due to people not turning off their engines when parking in the garage!

I think that has more to due with driver error/stupidity than an auto feature.

Its kinda like the "Runaway Toyota's" from a couple years back. Turns out that it was DRIVER ERROR. Drivers weren't properly securing floormats, which got underneath the accelerator and caused the accelerator to get stuck. Rather than put cars in neutral, they continued trying (unsuccessfully) to mash on the brakes. Didn't work.

mich800 wrote:

rhagfo wrote:



Yes, I do understand the concept and reason, I see a wrongful lawsuit in some car makers future because of this feature.
We have already seen deaths due to people not turning off their engines when parking in the garage!

Death from stop/start. Are you sure you are not confusing push button start. I have not heard of one death blamed on the stop/start function.

First of all let me say I am not anti technology, just one that asks "What If"!
I installed the Factory Curse Control on my 1968 Mustang GTCS in 1969 to control the lead in my right foot. Great option saved me far more than the $75 for the factory kit.
That said much of the marketing around much of the new technology seems to encourage bad driving habits! While not all marketing demonstrates these devices poorly, many do with drivers doing everything BUT driving while behind the wheel!

Used correctly most if not all will add to road safety, BUT for those that think these will allow them to focus their attention on things other than driving just scares me to death.
I travel a lot for my work, and rent many new cars with these features, some great some not so great.
One that I liked but was also annoying was a parking assistance that started beeping as you got closer to objects, well at the house we stay at here in Ireland while visiting the Granddaughter there is a tight gate and arch to the parking area. So every time through the beeper would go off, glad the car this time didn't have it!!

[fj12ryder]

westernrvparkowner wrote:

BenK wrote:
Here is a real world example of what I speak of...

Late 90's and the Y2K scare...

Will mention it, but know most won't understand...just gotta mention it..."Real
Time" is not well understood in the controls industry and even less in the
automotive industry...as of the last few years when checked...ditto
master/slave...

You are right, I am right there among those who didn't understand anything you said in your post. Are smart vehicles going to kill us because the CEOs are outsourcing something? Or is the whole idea of them being potentially dangerous just another scare story that ends up being nothing, just like Y2K? Very confused, but I will re-read your post after the cocktail hour, maybe it will make more sense under the lens of alcohol.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one that was a bit confused by the content of that post. LOL

[westernrvparkow]

BenK wrote:
Here is a real world example of what I speak of...

Late 90's and the Y2K scare...

Will mention it, but know most won't understand...just gotta mention it..."Real
Time" is not well understood in the controls industry and even less in the
automotive industry...as of the last few years when checked...ditto
master/slave...

You are right, I am right there among those who didn't understand anything you said in your post. Are smart vehicles going to kill us because the CEOs are outsourcing something? Or is the whole idea of them being potentially dangerous just another scare story that ends up being nothing, just like Y2K? Very confused, but I will re-read your post after the cocktail hour, maybe it will make more sense under the lens of alcohol.

[BenK]

Here is a real world example of what I speak of...

Late 90's and the Y2K scare...working in a corporation with $17 Billion per
year income...one of the largest in the world at that time

All during the outsourcing of design to China & India (main ones, there were
others)....One executive GM in the software division decided to take control of this
Y2K mania he read about in the newspaper...even though his staff had been
warning him of his budget cuts to that department

He decided to kill two birds with one stone...outsource the Calendar and
layoff the whole group (aporox 40 people, as he could NOT understand why
there were so many working on 'just the calendar'). Outsourced it to India

A host of problems ensued (source code issues...on the same server as one
of our competitors, etc, etc) and he asked for my IP lawyer to help out. She
hated that guy, but told her it was for the good of the company and gave
her a big bonus carrot if she completed it well

That moron GM only allotted enough budget for a 10 year deal...

Got laid off from that company and consulting back to them making more money

Received a call from that moron's head Program Manager who dictated the terms
and accepted their product (signed off on it) asking for my help...mainly
saying I screwed up as it was my lawyer...

Turns out they did EXACTLY what that contract said...10 years from the date
of signing and it would NOT work on the new OS revision coming down the pipe

Criminal that, but that Program Manager received a large bonus for the initial
work and knew he would take the credit for it if I fixed it...

Passed to then get several calls from their 'newly' hired software engineers
who found that, that old team was once in my program(s)

Point being...is that bean counter (bottom line) management will NOT understand
what they are managing (Dilbert is right on) and some of these underlying and
foundation stuff seemingly not important...that it might to most
likely be tied to EVERYTHING to do with the OS...

Will mention it, but know most won't understand...just gotta mention it..."Real
Time" is not well understood in the controls industry and even less in the
automotive industry...as of the last few years when checked...ditto
master/slave...

[John___Angela]

westernrvparkowner wrote:
Smart Vehicles are just the next step in transportation progress. Unfortunately I am old enough to remember the hand ringing when anti-lock brakes entered the market. Hundreds of thousands of people were going to die because you couldn't lock up your brakes and skid to a stop. And don't forget how many millions of people were going to drown because cars went from crank windows to power.
As for the effects on employment, that too is a normal progression. Stage coach drivers pretty much had to learn a new skill when buses entered the scene. Rubber tires put the blacksmith out of business. The guy who got rich selling eight track tapes had to learn a new sales pitch when cassettes took over and then had to jump into CDs with both feet. Now he better be able to talk a connectivity game if he wants to earn a paycheck.
Personally, I am glad some people lost their jobs to progress. I am happy I can go to a dentist if I have a tooth problem and not wait in line for the barber to finish someone's shave. I really don't care that modern medicine put the leech salesman on the unemployment line. And if the self driving car someday puts drivers out of work, yet delivers the services better, faster, cheaper and safer, I think we will all adjust.

Best summary I have seen on progress yet. Thumbs up. 🙂

[fj12ryder]

Well, you know what the optimist said when he jumped off a 10 story building and passed the second floor: "So far so good". 🙂

[westernrvparkow]

Smart Vehicles are just the next step in transportation progress. Unfortunately I am old enough to remember the hand ringing when anti-lock brakes entered the market. Hundreds of thousands of people were going to die because you couldn't lock up your brakes and skid to a stop. And don't forget how many millions of people were going to drown because cars went from crank windows to power.
As for the effects on employment, that too is a normal progression. Stage coach drivers pretty much had to learn a new skill when buses entered the scene. Rubber tires put the blacksmith out of business. The guy who got rich selling eight track tapes had to learn a new sales pitch when cassettes took over and then had to jump into CDs with both feet. Now he better be able to talk a connectivity game if he wants to earn a paycheck.
Personally, I am glad some people lost their jobs to progress. I am happy I can go to a dentist if I have a tooth problem and not wait in line for the barber to finish someone's shave. I really don't care that modern medicine put the leech salesman on the unemployment line. And if the self driving car someday puts drivers out of work, yet delivers the services better, faster, cheaper and safer, I think we will all adjust.

[Hammerhead]

The safety features I like the most on our Jeep are the backup camera with cross path detection and parking sensors. Most SUVs have lots of blind spots and it's way easier to back up with the camera. The cross path detectors are helpful backing out of parking spots where you can't see if someone is coming or not. The parking sensors and camera allow me to put the rear bumper within an inch of where I want it to be and also comes in handy when it's time to hitch a trailer.

[fj12ryder]

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. 🙂

[bid_time]

I don't think you have to worry. They will always need people to clean houses, cook meals, and take out the garbage. But if you want to be something bigger and better then you got to work for your goals. Yes, a bugger flipper can become a sous chef, but not if he ain't willing to put the time in and learn.

[fj12ryder]

bid_time wrote:
So what's your point? Don't get an education?
My points pretty simple. Get the skills you need to change with the times or sweep floors. You get to choose.
You 're the one that brought up engineers. I simple showed that there is a continuing demand for engineers. No job is immune from layoffs, but some have a better chance of finding another job (like engineers), while other don't (like sweeping floors).

My point is that "Get an education" is not the panacea that a lot of people seem to think it is. Yes, it sure helps and not having an education is a real minus. And some of those people sweeping floors couldn't get an engineering degree if they wanted to. What do we do about them? We need to face the fact that not everyone, in fact probably not most people, have what it takes to get the necessary higher degrees. What do we do with them? "Too bad, so sad"?

Good short order cooks don't necessarily have the skills to be a chef or sous chef. But they do fill a niche. Maybe we need to keep some of those niches.

[wilber1]

John & Angela wrote:
Driving down 111 yesterday heading for la quinta and there is a Mercedes E350 weaving all over the road and getting too close for comfort. Punched it to get buy it and saw a mid 50's lady putting on her makeup with both hands using her mirror probably steering with her knees.

Can't come fast enough. Easier to develop auto driving than fix stupid.

I agree. More and more people are treating driving like an inconvenience that gets in the way of everything else they want to do in a vehicle. I think more automation is becoming a necessity whether we like it or not.

Distracted driving is now the biggest cause of fatal accidents in BC in spite of a $368 fine for using a hand held device while driving. Automation is the only answer to this behaviour.

[bid_time]

So what's your point? Don't get an education?
My points pretty simple. Get the skills you need to change with the times or sweep floors. You get to choose.
You 're the one that brought up engineers. I simple showed that there is a continuing demand for engineers. No job is immune from layoffs, but some have a better chance of finding another job (like engineers), while other don't (like sweeping floors).

[fj12ryder]

I really can't believe that you think people with higher education are immune from layoffs and unemployment, but "but it is flat out false":

Engineers losing jobs

Like has been credited to Mark Twain: "Lies, damned lies, and statistics".

[DanNJanice]

fj12ryder wrote:

patriotgrunt wrote:
I'm certainly not a fan of self-driving technology and the impact it will have on the job market. What will we do once all the middle-class trucking jobs are replaced with computers? Same could be said for taxi-drivers which would effect larger urban job markets.

What you're saying is the same argument used against automation/robots and factory jobs. And the same old answer given is "Education". Of course one wonders how many amazing jobs are going to materialize out of thin air just because one has more education. I guess you could check with all those engineers: "...engineers are losing their jobs faster than people in a lot of other professions are. Even graduates of the best schools are getting laid off as companies downsize and outsource or offshore operations to other countries."

Guess they just need some more education.

Some good points to think about, thanks guys.
Is it realistic to think that everyone will spend an extra 8 years in school after high school getting the PHD required for the "in-demand" jobs of the future?
IMO, one of the reasons for the recent political unpredictability (both in US, UK, possibly France, and others) is a response from the group of people who feel left behind and discarded. As automation takes over more and more of these types of jobs, the ranks for the "discarded" will continue to grow and they will seek to change that situation by voting.
Just some thoughts that come to mind reading this thread.