10 speed F150 axle ratios

[atwowheelguy]

I'm considering a 10 speed F150. My '13 3.5 Ecoboost 3.55 axle 2WD Supercrew short bed is darn near perfect for my one and only cage transportation and tow vehicle. It performs very well. I have weighed it twice while towing. Once the toy hauler was 6700 lbs. with 780 tongue weight with GCW of 12,920 and once it was 7100 lbs. with 800 tongue weight and GCW of 13,260. On the first one the rear truck axle was 50 lbs. under the GAWR and on the second time it was 70 lbs. over the GAWR. In both cases there was some cargo in the truck that could have gone in the camper. My only reason for trading would be to get a little more payload. The '13 has 1607 lbs. payload and is rated for 15,300 GCWR.

For the configuration I want, the only two axles available for the '17 are 3.15 and 3.55. It looks like with the 10 speed transmission, the 3.15 axle 1st gear is about the same as the 3.55 axle ratio with the 6 speed (equivalent to a 3.54 actually). With the 10 speed, the 3.55 1st gear is the same as the 6 speed would be with a 3.99 axle ratio. The 3.15 has a GCWR of 15,800 and the 3.55 has a GCWR of 17,000 (max tow). It looks like I would get about the same towing capability with a 3.15 in the 10 speed as I have now with a 3.55 in the 6 speed. Actually the 3.15 ten speed is rated for 500 lbs. more GCVW. What I have now is fine with my rig weight at about 87% of GCWR. I'm thinking maybe I could go with the 3.15. What do you think?

[VernDiesel]

Grit Dog, The 8 speed is great. Hope Ram puts it in the HD behind the 6.4 it will be a big improvement. Ram / ZF has three levels one light duty only rated for 332 TQ for the naturally aspirated V6s. One more standard version rated for 516 TQ for the Hemi & EcoDiesel. Maybe add a bigger pan but this should work well for the 6.4 Hemi as well. A common tuned ED puts out more torque than the 6.4. And a beefed up version rated for 664 TQ which is not enough for the newer Cummins and I really don't think its designed for that kind of work anyhow.

BTW some vendors etc rate transmissions by HP because the American public is so used to discussing HP. But at the manufacturer level they rate them by torque. This helps people better understand the relationship between HP & TQ. Torque is how much work an engine will do at a given rpm horsepower is how fast it will do that work at that rpm.

I have a small transporter business and use my tuned ED to deliver Airstreams & a few Gulfstreams & Forest River TTs from the manufacturers to dealerships around the country. Usually with another TT or boat or cargo trailer and or a loaded bed on the next leg or return leg. I do more trips through the western grades than anywhere else so the 8 speed is well worked with 240,000 and she has never missed a beat.

Powerdude, Your turbo comment was addressed but to add to it. When not wicked up and overboosted beyond stock boost turbos routinely go 500,000 miles. The do in Semis where they run on boost all day everyday. I am an original owner of an 87 Buick Grand National ie some of the first automotive turbos that were properly oil cooled from the factory. It ran overboosted for years and was still good at 125k. My current Eco turbo diesel is still good at 240k and has always been worked hard.

I suspect the new 10 speed is going to be a big hit. I don't buy a truck to hot rod and fuel economy & longevity is more important to me so I am looking forward to seeing what the new 10 speed with the small diesel in the upcoming F150 will do. It should compete with the ED and will have the benefit of having a crank driven fan.

[MitchF150]

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[brulaz]

Powerdude wrote:

...
I don't think it's all its advertised to be, personally. I'm sure people are happy with their 3.5 L put-put squirrel molester, but wait until you hit 100k-120k miles and you have to shell out $2000 bucks for new turbos.

Pretty much ALL the diesels, big and small, have turbos.

So if you design and treat them right, turboed engines can last a long, long time.

Not sure where this anti-turbo bias comes from ...

[ShinerBock]

Powerdude wrote:
If you look at those torque curves, the EcoBoost doesn't have jack for torque at 1000-1500 RPMs, because the turbos haven't spooled up.

At that RPM, it's just a 3.5 L V6. Yeah, it sips gas at that level, but you don't get torque and power until the turbo's kick in air into the engine.

At that point, you have to inject gas, or you'll throw a rod out due to lean condition. When the turbos kick in, you get power and torque, but that kills your gas mileage.

I don't think it's all its advertised to be, personally. I'm sure people are happy with their 3.5 L put-put squirrel molester, but wait until you hit 100k-120k miles and you have to shell out $2000 bucks for new turbos.

If you look at the dyno, the Ecoboost does make A LOT more power at 1,000-1,500 rpm at a steady state or while in boost. The only time it is not in boost is from a dead stop, and even then it spools up very quickly. The fact that it has little power until the turbo's kick in is no different that the MDS V8's having no power in 4 cylinder mode until the other cylinders kick in.

The 200+ Ecoboost trucks with over 100k or even 150k miles on them with less than a handful of turbo replacement would prove your "but wait until you hit 100k-120k miles and you have to shell out $2000 bucks for new turbos" statement incorrect.

[Powerdude]

If you look at those torque curves, the EcoBoost doesn't have jack for torque at 1000-1500 RPMs, because the turbos haven't spooled up.

At that RPM, it's just a 3.5 L V6. Yeah, it sips gas at that level, but you don't get torque and power until the turbo's kick in air into the engine.

At that point, you have to inject gas, or you'll throw a rod out due to lean condition. When the turbos kick in, you get power and torque, but that kills your gas mileage.

I don't think it's all its advertised to be, personally. I'm sure people are happy with their 3.5 L put-put squirrel molester, but wait until you hit 100k-120k miles and you have to shell out $2000 bucks for new turbos.

[Grit_dog]

Will be a fun toy, but like I said, I see a lot of manual gear selection to prevent the trans from hunting unless tow mode allows skip shifts where it only hits every other gear in the top half of the gears so it holds a gear longer.

Haven't driven a ZF 8 speed yet but want to. Thinking bout getting one. If it's made to hold up behind 700+factory hp then the 485 in a run of the mill srt or 400 in a pickup should be a cake walk for it.
Pretty cool stuff IMO. Remember when u had to have street gears just to handle a road trip and a 727 or th400 had to be "built" to take more than like 300 hp? Manual lockup and a vacuum kick down....
Now we're talking 8-10speeds in passenger vehicles!

[brulaz]

BenK wrote:
Anyone know if this new 10 speed tranny disconnects TC Lock for long during a shift?

That is where most of the heat is generated...unlocked

It almost has to unlock in order to shift and asking in case they have solved that
in some fashion

I'm definitely interested in how it handles these shifts, especially downshifts when towing (not so interested in hot-rod upshifts).

Have been really surprised how different trannys downshift under load. My F150 EcoBoost's 6-spd was very quiet, smooth and fast from 6 to 5, but could clunk loudly and shake the cab down to 4.

Pulling the same trailer, the Ram CTD's 68RFE is busy and slow going from 6 to 5: the CTD revs up when the TC unlocks, then the rpms drop once it locks up. Of course the CTD downshifts less frequently than the EcoB under load but it's a lot busier when it does. I'm told this "flare" is to protect the 68RFE from all the CTD torque.

And especially with 10 gears and 9 downshifts, I too wonder how the new 10-spd handles this under load ...

[hvac]

wcjeep wrote:
Latest Consumer Reports found big multi speed transmissions problematic. Are you sure you want to be the first on the block with the 10spd?

Does not hold true for the zf 8 speed in the ram 1500. Well proven and mine is the most perfect tranny yet. Match it with the eco diesel, 3.90 rear and full air suspension and it's towing animal. I love it..

[goducks10]

Fords web site under Build and Price shows two trannies for the F150. A 6sp and a 10 sp. Both show Tow Haul and Sport modes. I couldn't find any in depth info regarding any of the specifics about either of those modes.

[BenK]

Anyone know if this new 10 speed tranny disconnects TC Lock for long during a shift?

That is where most of the heat is generated...unlocked

It almost has to unlock in order to shift and asking in case they have solved that
in some fashion

[Grit_dog]

theoldwizard1 wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
And so much for locking it in a gear to keep the trans from hunting fo gears.

I have to believe you can do this ! I can on my 6 speed auto in a 2016 Ford Edge.

I totally said that the wrong way. I'm sure youcan hold a gear and actually have more choices for matching rpms/power to the load/grade.

[Huntindog]

People always get all hung up over what RPMs will be when comparisons like this are made. That only looks at the power to the rear wheels. But where in the drivetrain that the gear multiplication is made matters in the overall towing capability. This is why the lower geared rear axled truck most always has a higher tow rating. In this case, the 10 speed has both lower and higher gears. So their is no reason to compromise in favor of the higher geared rear end, for better MPGs.

[brulaz]

theoldwizard1 wrote:

...
Customers don't want a "busy" transmission (constantly shifting up and down) but also don't want to have to stomp on the pedal to get it to "kick down).

The shift schedule will be very different in "tow mode".

With 10 closely spaced gears the shift from one gear to another should not be as noticeable or "busy".

Of course a lot will depend upon the programming, engine noise deadening and so on. But even with my 2011 F150 EcoB, the downshift from 6 to 5 when towing was just not an issue, so I rarely locked out 6th. (Not so with my 2016 RAM CTD, but then it has to downshift less)

[APT]

ShinerBock wrote:


Actually no. Due to how much low end torque the current Ecoboost has, it hardly spends any time below sixth while cruising unloaded. It would hold gears on hills that would make most N/A V8s drop down a gear or two.

I meant while towing, 4-5th gears on current 6-spd are heavily utilized.

I have driven a few 3.5L Ecoboost F-150s, including towing my TT with one. I am very familiar with the torque curve as it is diesel like at 1500-2500rpm, and even stronger than diesel over 3000rpm. I would have purchased one except priority for 3-rows won at the time. If Ford offered that engine in the 2012 Expy, I'd probably have that instead of our Suburban.