2013+ f350 drw vs f450 for 18k towing

[sean425]

hi guys, new to the forum, but been lurking for quite some time getting some great answers. heres my situation.

im in the market for a raptor 365lev(Dry Weigh-14,383 lbs
Cargo Weigh-3,650 lbs) or the vengence 394 with a Gross Weight of 18043 lbs.

im traveling with my wife and 3 dogs which are around 125 a piece. 225 lb dirt bike and misc cargo.

i accept the fact that my current 2015 f350 SRW isnt ideal for this situation and im ready to bite the bullet for a dually. but my question is weather a used(2013+) f450 will really be that much of a difference compared to a 350 DRW also 2013+ and is the 350 more than enough for these trailers?

ive read the numbers and such, but just looking for some actual on road information and insight. i am not the type of person to half ass so i really want to make sure my rig is comfortable safe and practicable. any help is much appreciated.

thanks guys!

[ib516]

taken wrote:

ib516 wrote:
Isn't the 2013 F"450" just an F350 with 4.30 gears anyway? IIRC, the F350 was actually more capable in many respects than the 450 was in that model year. They had many complaints about the low top speed (81 mph) of the F450 (why, I have no idea, 81 should be fast enough).

The 2008 - 2010 F450s were burly, after that, not so much. In 2011, they were changed to be basically just an F350 with a 450 badge. They lost their unique frame, Dana 110 axle, 19.5" wheels/tires, etc.

I think it is 2015 where they beefed them back up again to true class 4 status.

Yes, I clarified all that a few times in this thread. 2011-2014 the 350 DRW and 450 are identical but for the wide track front axle and the 4:30 gears as opposed to 3:73's. Order the high capacity tow package and you get both those options on a 350 DRW. 2008-10 and 2015+, the 450 is a completely different animal.

Posted before I read the whole thread. I see I duplicated info. My bad 🙂

[taken]

ib516 wrote:
Isn't the 2013 F"450" just an F350 with 4.30 gears anyway? IIRC, the F350 was actually more capable in many respects than the 450 was in that model year. They had many complaints about the low top speed (81 mph) of the F450 (why, I have no idea, 81 should be fast enough).

The 2008 - 2010 F450s were burly, after that, not so much. In 2011, they were changed to be basically just an F350 with a 450 badge. They lost their unique frame, Dana 110 axle, 19.5" wheels/tires, etc.

I think it is 2015 where they beefed them back up again to true class 4 status.

Yes, I clarified all that a few times in this thread. 2011-2014 the 350 DRW and 450 are identical but for the wide track front axle and the 4:30 gears as opposed to 3:73's. Order the high capacity tow package and you get both those options on a 350 DRW. 2008-10 and 2015+, the 450 is a completely different animal.

[ib516]

Isn't the 2013 F"450" just an F350 with 4.30 gears anyway? IIRC, the F350 was actually more capable in many respects than the 450 was in that model year. They had many complaints about the low top speed (81 mph) of the F450 (why, I have no idea, 81 should be fast enough).

The 2008 - 2010 F450s were burly, after that, not so much. In 2011, they were changed to be basically just an F350 with a 450 badge. They lost their unique frame, Dana 110 axle, 19.5" wheels/tires, etc.

I think it is 2015 where they beefed them back up again to true class 4 status.

[Winged_One]

FishOnOne wrote:
An F350 DRW is more than enough for that trailer and will tow it like no ones business.

I agree.

OP, be sure to pay close attention to those that have owned either or both (especially both for the few on here that have done that). First hand experience is best.

[taken]

The S110 was in the chassis cab F450's not the pickup truck F450 in the current generation. The 2008-2010 F450 pickups did have the S110 but that's not what we are discussing here. The new 2015 F450 comes with the S130. The 350 DRW has the Dana 80 as did the 2011-2014 F450.

[6_6_Oilburner]

So all this talk about the 350 DRW being identical to the 450.... I was not aware they started using s110 rears in the 350s ?

[davidaf]

ljr wrote:

lawnspecialties wrote:
I am curious. Just wondering.

Why order an F350 with the 4.30 rear end and the wide front end? Wouldn't it be easier and quicker to just go find an F450 you like?

I'm anxious for an answer since I apparently did that.

350 is easier to insure and finance plus extra payload capacity if payload is the priority.

The payload is the interesting Question on the 450 was it simply underrated to hit the 14k class 3 weight rating particularly on the 2015+ where the axle and tires/wheels are much larger than the 350? Is the spring pack the limiter? Marketing to beat out Ram in the Class 3 war? Only Ford knows.

I'd buy the 450 again. I wanted 19.5s, wide track and the 4.3. I basically paid the price of a F-350 with Ricksons.

[huntram]

As said earlier if you are open to the RAM consider the 3500 DRW with Aisin transmission. The magazines compare this to the F450 and in some states there may be issues with special D/L requirements with the 450 or higher license plate fees.

I can tell you that my 2014 RAM is a towing beast! LOL!

Brian

[schwipps324]

taken wrote:

schwipps324 wrote:
I can personally tell you from experience that you will not notice a bit a difference in these two trucks. Owning a Ford dealership we are constantly switching out our two vehicle for our Cyclone 4100 GWR 18,000 lbs. The 450 did not tow better. The 350 did not get better gas mileage. 8.5 MPG and you didnt even know it was back there on both trucks until you needed to turn. Yes the 450 turned tighter but really when you have 40 feet of trailer behind you when are you going to turning that tight?

The tight turning of the 450 and 350 with HD Tow is a big help backing into tight spots. So, the larger the RV, the more the turning radius helps getting it into spots made for smaller trailers.

IMO if you need the extra turning radius to get into the spot your not going to be able to pull out of the spot. But yes I believe you do have a point for smaller spots

[taken]

schwipps324 wrote:
I can personally tell you from experience that you will not notice a bit a difference in these two trucks. Owning a Ford dealership we are constantly switching out our two vehicle for our Cyclone 4100 GWR 18,000 lbs. The 450 did not tow better. The 350 did not get better gas mileage. 8.5 MPG and you didnt even know it was back there on both trucks until you needed to turn. Yes the 450 turned tighter but really when you have 40 feet of trailer behind you when are you going to turning that tight?

The tight turning of the 450 and 350 with HD Tow is a big help backing into tight spots. So, the larger the RV, the more the turning radius helps getting it into spots made for smaller trailers.

[schwipps324]

I can personally tell you from experience that you will not notice a bit a difference in these two trucks. Owning a Ford dealership we are constantly switching out our two vehicle for our Cyclone 4100 GWR 18,000 lbs. The 450 did not tow better. The 350 did not get better gas mileage. 8.5 MPG and you didnt even know it was back there on both trucks until you needed to turn. Yes the 450 turned tighter but really when you have 40 feet of trailer behind you when are you going to turning that tight?

[The_Mad_Norsky]

Just some additional info on the F 450.

Looked at a brand new 2016 today, with camper and snow plow packages on it. Crew cab dually of course, with the standard 225/70-19.5 tires.

Kind of intrigued by those 19.5 tires, since I do believe they would outlast anything one could buy in the 17 inch range, which is what my current dually has.

Anyway, looked at the glove box slip for truck camper payload, and it said 4,038 pounds.

Total payload from inside the drivers door was 4,900 something pounds.

Gotta admit, I was majorly disappointed. Expected more, but it is not there.

Since my Ram was there too, parked alongside the F 450, I looked for differences.

Truck camper payload my Ram is 4,500 something.

total payload Ram is 5,380 pounds.

I also noted my 2014 Ram has MORE leaf springs in back than does the F 450.

So just from looking I'd say an F 350, if you're gonna go Ford, would probably give you more cause my 3500 Ram sure beat everything this new F 450 had, other than those long lasting 19.5 inch tires.

[taken]

sean425 wrote:
i see your thunderbolt is very similar in weight to what im looking at.

I know you said you were way under everything else besides the gcwr, but at 18k trailer are you over the towing cap too? I thought the max was 16,500 for our trucks according to ford. do you sag?

ideally id love to keep my current srw

thanks!

The trailer max weight is a component of GCWR so technically they are the same thing. Everyone is different on weights. Some guys want nothing but a DRW for anything bigger than a pop up. I choose to ignore those ratings and stay under on axle, tire, and GVWR of the truck. I feel safe doing this. Other's don't. My last rig was 40 feet and 16k loaded. This one is 44 feet and over 17k with the garage empty. I've towed it with the tanks full and 1400 in the garage too. Last one over 10k miles. This one, 2000 or so already. It's a very comfortable towing experience. If I was you, I'd at least try it with your truck. You can always upgrade the truck later if you aren't comfortable with the combo...

[sean425]

i see your thunderbolt is very similar in weight to what im looking at.

I know you said you were way under everything else besides the gcwr, but at 18k trailer are you over the towing cap too? I thought the max was 16,500 for our trucks according to ford. do you sag?

ideally id love to keep my current srw

thanks!

[taken]

Yes, you'd be over the GCWR. I don't worry too much on that one when all my other weights are under but others do. It's up to you...