2016 Titan XD Cummins- TFL

[jerem0621]

Here is the TFL Video

Interesting to note...

Peak TQ- 1800 rpm

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[transamz9]

RinconVTR wrote:

otrfun wrote:


The Cummins 5.0 V8 diesel "numbers" speak for themselves. In terms of raw torque (vs. 1/2 ton gas engines), I agree it's not a fair comparison--the Cummins 5.0 V8 comes out on top. You can play the HP card all day long, but big torque numbers at low RPM's is what makes for effortless towing in the realworld. Big HP numbers (relative to torque) require a lot of RPM's and constant transmission activity to maximize output---both distract from the ideal tow experience.

.

In the pickup market, yes only the EcoD. In the SUV market, there are many more to compare side by side with their gas engine options.

The Cummins 5.0 numbers do speak for themselves. They are low on HP compared to their competitive gas engine options. We can play the torque vs HP game all day, but the fact remains when you are full throttle under high load...just cause its a diesel doesn't mean its will hold under 2,000rpm where peak torque shows up.

You will be surprised to learn how high these diesels actually run when towing under stress. I suggest you pay closer attention...cause you are clearly missing this point.

I believe that even in the heavy duty trucks the diesels have less HP than their gas counterparts. What is the preferred engine in the HD trucks when towing and hauling? My FIL has a 2015 gas HD. Can he keep up with me? Sure Does he? No. When he had his 2013 diesel he did. The diesels may be running hard in some peoples eyes but the feel like they are just loafing along and do it for hundreds of thousands of miles. There is a big difference in the diesel experience and the gas experience. Some like one and others like the other.

[otrfun]

RinconVTR wrote:

otrfun wrote:


The Cummins 5.0 V8 diesel "numbers" speak for themselves. In terms of raw torque (vs. 1/2 ton gas engines), I agree it's not a fair comparison--the Cummins 5.0 V8 comes out on top. You can play the HP card all day long, but big torque numbers at low RPM's is what makes for effortless towing in the realworld. Big HP numbers (relative to torque) require a lot of RPM's and constant transmission activity to maximize output---both distract from the ideal tow experience.

In the pickup market, yes only the EcoD. In the SUV market, there are many more to compare side by side with their gas engine options.

The Cummins 5.0 numbers do speak for themselves. They are low on HP compared to their competitive gas engine options. We can play the torque vs HP game all day, but the fact remains when you are full throttle under high load...just cause its a diesel doesn't mean its will hold under 2,000rpm where peak torque shows up.

You will be surprised to learn how high these diesels actually run when towing under stress. I suggest you pay closer attention...cause you are clearly missing this point.

ANY engine under "stress" or full throttle will be performing at the edge of its reliability/torque curve. What's your point?

My point: effortless, stress-free towing through the use of an engine that produces high torque at a very low RPM with minimal transmission activity, and minimal NVH. High HP numbers (relative to torque) can produce significant torque with proper gearing. However, the down side is high RPM's, constant transmission activity, and high NVH.

A diesel engine has its forte. So does a gas engine. There's a very good reason why you'll never see a diesel engine in an Indy 500 race car. There's also very good reason why you'll never see a 700 HP Indy 500 engine powering an 18-wheeler.

[RinconVTR]

otrfun wrote:


The Cummins 5.0 V8 diesel "numbers" speak for themselves. In terms of raw torque (vs. 1/2 ton gas engines), I agree it's not a fair comparison--the Cummins 5.0 V8 comes out on top. You can play the HP card all day long, but big torque numbers at low RPM's is what makes for effortless towing in the realworld. Big HP numbers (relative to torque) require a lot of RPM's and constant transmission activity to maximize output---both distract from the ideal tow experience.

.

In the pickup market, yes only the EcoD. In the SUV market, there are many more to compare side by side with their gas engine options.

The Cummins 5.0 numbers do speak for themselves. They are low on HP compared to their competitive gas engine options. We can play the torque vs HP game all day, but the fact remains when you are full throttle under high load...just cause its a diesel doesn't mean its will hold under 2,000rpm where peak torque shows up.

You will be surprised to learn how high these diesels actually run when towing under stress. I suggest you pay closer attention...cause you are clearly missing this point.

[otrfun]

otrfun wrote:
IMO, the "no-man's land" (or "gap" as dshelly called it) is what fuels a lot of gas vs. big-bore diesel threads.

I think many will disagree with your assessment of the Cummins V8 5.0 diesel/torque/MPG experience. Rather doubt the 3.5EB, Hemi/Tundra 5.7, 6.2, 6.4, etc. are going to even come close in a realworld 10,000 lb. tow battle.

Although it may not be appealing to your needs, IMO Nissan has found a market path of least resistance . This path leads directly to a number of prospective and current 1/2 ton owners who want the diesel experience, but don't want to make the jump to a big-bore diesel.

RinconVTR wrote:
Are you thinking these smaller diesels will out perform their gas counter parts in the 1/2 ton truck market when it comes to towing? Think again. Its hardly a fair comparison.

Search for actual towing tests of ANY small/medium size diesel on the market right now. Regarding towing performance only...the difference is night and day. Gas engines, with their higher HP, make these smaller diesels painful to drive under strenuous towing conditions.

But hey...you might get 1 or even 3 better MPG....for drastically higher up front cost.

So you decide what the priority is. You'll get to your destination regardless.

Not sure what you're basing all your "night and day" towing test results on. Outside of the Ecodiesel is there any other small/medium diesel? Big HP/torque difference between the Ecodiesel and the Cummins 5.0 V8. Little ridiculous to lump them together from a performance perspective.

The Cummins 5.0 V8 diesel "numbers" speak for themselves. In terms of raw torque (vs. 1/2 ton gas engines), I agree it's not a fair comparison--the Cummins 5.0 V8 comes out on top. You can play the HP card all day long, but big torque numbers at low RPM's is what makes for effortless towing in the realworld. Big HP numbers (relative to torque) require a lot of RPM's and constant transmission activity to maximize output---both distract from the ideal tow experience.

In any case, the Nissan Cummins is due to hit showrooms in the coming weeks. Looking forward to seeing some realworld comparisons to lay all this conjecture to rest.

[FishOnOne]

8.1 Van wrote:
The Nissan Cummins Titan at the SEMA show in Las Vegas the past week:

Can this 2016 Nissan Titan XD capture the diesel land speed record?

Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/sema-show/2016-nissan-titan-xd-chases-diesel-land-speed-record#ixzz3r0L2roFJ


http://www.trucktrend.com/news/1511-2016-nissan-titan-xd-gets-measured-for-sema/

I suppose they're going up against the Ford 6.7 Power Stroke speed record? If so it seams Fred continues to copy the competition with it's own game.

BTW... I seen the Ford Super Duty land speed record truck a couple of years ago. 182 mph and drive it home. :B

Link

[RinconVTR]

IMO, the "no-man's land" (or "gap" as dshelly called it) is what fuels a lot of gas vs. big-bore diesel threads.

I think many will disagree with your assessment of the Cummins V8 5.0 diesel/torque/MPG experience. Rather doubt the 3.5EB, Hemi/Tundra 5.7, 6.2, 6.4, etc. are going to even come close in a realworld 10,000 lb. tow battle.

Although it may not be appealing to your needs, IMO Nissan has found a market path of least resistance . This path leads directly to a number of prospective and current 1/2 ton owners who want the diesel experience, but don't want to make the jump to a big-bore diesel.

Are you thinking these smaller diesels will out perform their gas counter parts in the 1/2 ton truck market when it comes to towing? Think again. Its hardly a fair comparison.

Search for actual towing tests of ANY small/medium size diesel on the market right now. Regarding towing performance only...the difference is night and day. Gas engines, with their higher HP, make these smaller diesels painful to drive under strenuous towing conditions.

But hey...you might get 1 or even 3 better MPG....for drastically higher up front cost.

So you decide what the priority is. You'll get to your destination regardless.

[otrfun]

Bionic Man wrote:

dshelley wrote:
Looks like it will do what it was designed for. To fill a gap between the light duty half tons and the heavy duty 2500/3500's I like it. I like it a lot.

I would say that it is falling into no-man's land.

Engine is not powerful enough to offer a substantial power advantage over the 3.5 EB or Hemi (or the Chevy equivalent).

And it is not significantly more efficient than those above mentioned options either, so no big advantage in MPG.

I hope it is a winner for them. But I think they have a tough row to hoe.

IMO, the "no-man's land" (or "gap" as dshelly called it) is what fuels a lot of gas vs. big-bore diesel threads.

I think many will disagree with your assessment of the Cummins V8 5.0 diesel/torque/MPG experience. Rather doubt the 3.5EB, Hemi/Tundra 5.7, 6.2, 6.4, etc. are going to even come close in a realworld 10,000 lb. tow battle.

Although it may not be appealing to your needs, IMO Nissan has found a market path of least resistance . This path leads directly to a number of prospective and current 1/2 ton owners who want the diesel experience, but don't want to make the jump to a big-bore diesel.

For those that expect the Nissan Titan Cummins to be priced lower than a 3/4 ton big-bore diesel--not going to happen. IMO, it'll be "competitively" priced around $45k-$55k. Same price range as the best-selling 1/2 tons and lower trim-line 3/4 ton big-bore diesels.

Why would anyone buy a Nissan XD Titan Cummins for $45k-$55k when they could buy a 3/4 ton big-bore diesel? I'll answer it by posing another question. Why do so many spend $45k-$55k on the best-selling 1/2 ton trucks?

[jus2shy]

It will be interesting to watch. I saw the RealMPG testing as well with the 2 RAMs as a baseline. Interesting to see they get 17.4 mpg on the highway when that's what I get combined on Winter diesel (I typically get 18.x during the summer). My highway fuel economy tends to be around 22 or 23 mpg with my experience (all hand calc of course).

But yeah, the weight surprises me. My truck weighs about 7760 pounds when subtracting passenger weight. This is with 3/4 tank of diesel and 1/2 tank of DEF. That is a bonafied HD chassis with that kind of weight, unless they're using really poor metallurgy which I doubt.

[RinconVTR]

Bionic Man wrote:

dshelley wrote:
Looks like it will do what it was designed for. To fill a gap between the light duty half tons and the heavy duty 2500/3500's I like it. I like it a lot.

I would say that it is falling into no-man's land.

Engine is not powerful enough to offer a substantial power advantage over the 3.5 EB or Hemi (or the Chevy equivalent).

And it is not significantly more efficient than those above mentioned options either, so no big advantage in MPG.

I hope it is a winner for them. But I think they have a tough row to hoe.

I completely agree.

[brulaz]

IdaD wrote:

Me Again wrote:
The very complex diesel would be a show stopped for me along with the CP4.2 injection pump. Chris

The chains and the injection pump would give me pause too. Plus I'm having a hard time coming up with an advantage with this truck compared to a regular heavy duty model. It isn't any cheaper and barely gets better mileage.

Percentage-wise it might get 15-20% better mileage hwy (according to MT's test), but we'll never really know as there's no real standard for HD trucks.

It's ride *might* be better, but the RAM 2500 sets a pretty high standard there. And the payload is still in question.

As for price, that's so variable depending upon regional discounts that there's no way to tell. I know locally you can't beat Ford's Superduties price-wise because of one high volume dealer. RAMs and GMCs don't come close unless you know somebody.

No idea how this thing will compare price wise. But if it can be had for 4-5 CanGrand less than a similarly equipped Ford F250 diesel, I'm interested.

A lot more info should be coming out soon. Apparently there's an embargo on journalist's reporting stuff until Nov 15th. TFLTruck.com and PickupTrucks.com should have some reviews soon.

[IdaD]

Me Again wrote:
The very complex diesel would be a show stopped for me along with the CP4.2 injection pump. Chris

The chains and the injection pump would give me pause too. Plus I'm having a hard time coming up with an advantage with this truck compared to a regular heavy duty model. It isn't any cheaper and barely gets better mileage.

[Me_Again]

The very complex diesel would be a show stopped for me along with the CP4.2 injection pump. Chris

[GoPackGo]

I like it a lot too, but not with a $63k price tag and not unless it can get good mpg around town and also at a steady 60 mph. Just getting a couple mpg better then what any of the Big 3 duallys get for about the same money won't fly.

[Bionic_Man]

dshelley wrote:
Looks like it will do what it was designed for. To fill a gap between the light duty half tons and the heavy duty 2500/3500's I like it. I like it a lot.

I would say that it is falling into no-man's land.

Engine is not powerful enough to offer a substantial power advantage over the 3.5 EB or Hemi (or the Chevy equivalent).

And it is not significantly more efficient than those above mentioned options either, so no big advantage in MPG.

I hope it is a winner for them. But I think they have a tough row to hoe.

[dshelley]

Looks like it will do what it was designed for. To fill a gap between the light duty half tons and the heavy duty 2500/3500's I like it. I like it a lot.