Advice needed on new truck

[stargirl96]

We have a 2008 Toyota Tundra 5.7L V8 which we are thinking about trading in for a bigger truck to pull our 5th wheel. It's a reliable truck with a good ride. I've heard negative things about many trucks from the Big Three as far as reliability goes. Here are my questions:

1) What automaker is more reliable for 3/4 tons?
2) Gas or diesel?
3) Do diesels gets better mpg? I know you certainly pay more for diesel fuel.
4) Anyone have a CNG truck used for towing?

Thanks for any help.

[B_Sjulestad]

dbbls wrote:
Get the one you like best, not the one someone else likes best.:)

X2

[AlmostAnOldGuy]

Do you have the GVWR of the 5th wheel or even better what it scales at? That may help folks provide more specific examples of what has worked for them. Also, where will you be towing? Are you going to make regular trips to the Rockies or will you be keeping it in the flats.

The modern diesels are very strong, and with their turbochargers they do well at higher elevations.

There are some good gas engines on the market as well. My buddy full timed for two years crossing the country a couple times in a fifth wheel. He had an F250 with the 6.2 gas engine and it did well for him. His trailer was around 12k loaded.

The new Ram 6.4L looks like a very good gas engine (look at the torque curve) and when you choose gas you often gain additional payload. This engine is new and does not really have a track record, but the numbers look good and a couple of forum members have posted good first impressions.

Good luck,
Stu

[oughtsix]

I like Jap cars and wouldn't own a domestic car! If I HAD to own a domestic car a GM car would be my very last choice (Well I may consider a Volt). That being said when I bought my tow vehicle I bought a 2006 Chevy Duramax after a LOT of research. When I set out to buy my tow vehicle I set out to buy a used Ford 7.3 Powerstroke diesel. I found that owners were way too proud of their 7.3 Poiwerstrokes and I could get a 6 year newer (2006) Duramax for just a little more than the Ford Powerstroke and get the much superior Allison 6 speed automatic with the Duramax.

I believe the Cummins is the best Diesel engine available but in the price range I was looking buying a Dodge Cummins would have almost certainly meant putting out many thousands of dollars shortly after buying the truck to rebuild the transmission. I believe Dodge now uses Aisin transmission which I have been told is pretty much a Jap clone of a Allison transmission??? A Dodge Megacab with 6.7 Cummins and Aisin transmission would have a lot of appeal to me! The Dodge regular crew cab does have enough room for adults to sit comfortably in the back seat IMHO.

The thing I DESPISE most about american cars especially GM's is the******electrical switches and buttons. In my opinion GM just buys the cheapest******switches and electricals... which the recent ignition switch recall seems to bear out my prejudices. When I had a Chevy Astro van I ended up replacing the OEM switches with OEM switches multiple times then finally replaced them with some quality metal toggle switches (window and door lock switches). HVAC, wipers and steering wheel controls I think you are just screwed. Other than the switches the Astro van was a tank and I loved... well except for the cheap plastic fuel injection spider that was designed to die after 100K!

That being said with near 200K on my Duramax all the door, window, HVAC, turn signal, cruise control, etc switches have "YET" to have a problem. (Several burnt out dash light bulbs though!)

I serously considered an Isuzu MPR truck for a tow vehicle but they are way to noisy and too harsh a ride. At least I ended up with a superior Isuzu diesel engine (Well Isuzu designed the Duramax diesel engine at least).

There is no way I would own a post 7.3 Ford powerstroke diesel. Every new generation of Powerstroke is the one they announce they have fixed all the problems in... but I wouldn't waste my money on one.

[campigloo]

Just as some people espouse, Ford, Ram, GM are total junk. Don't know how they stay in business. Over the last 40 years that I have owned them, I have had major problems once a week. Jap stuff, on the other hand never has problems, never has a recall and I wonder why they even have warranties and service centers. All they need is an oil change rack.
On to reality, if you go ahead with the diesel, when you get ready to get your next 5er, it won't even be a factor. Diesels, IMO, don't pull a bit better than gas, they pull much better. I have owned two diesels, put over 100,000 towing miles combined, and still haven't realized these massive repair bills people keep telling me I am getting. Guess I'm missing something there.

[coolbreeze01]

I would consider a new Ram or Chevy/GMC pickup. Have fun shopping.

[wintersun]

B3yond Iris wrote:
1) For reliability from the big three I would say they're all pretty much equal.
2) For gas vs. diesel it mostly depends on personal preference, a diesel will pull a bit better and get better mileage while towing then a comparable gasser. But a gasser will pull whatever it is rated for but at a higher RPM to keep it in its powerband.
3) It used to be true that diesels would get much better MPG then the gassers of that year, but with the new emission equipment on diesels that gap has narrowed to maybe 1-4 MPG stock-for-stock
4) I have no experience around CNG trucks but would imagine that it would be very similar to towing with a gas engine. The worry I would have with that is finding fuel stations that stock it as I know of only one around the area I live that sells it.

Agree completely. CNG produces less horsepower but has other advantages for fleet vehicle use where they can access a central filling station. Diesel sells for more than premium and you need to buy both diesel and DEF when you make fuel stops.

Diesel is worth the higher price with very heavy loads that exceed 10,000 lbs. where the greater torque and greater engine braking are important. Over 15,000 lbs. and you need a diesel. Under 10,000 lbs. and there is little reason to do so.

On the road you will have more places selling regular gas and at 90 cents less a gallon than ones selling diesel. Easier to get a gas engine problem diagnosed and repaired and easier to get a new hose or belt at the nearest auto parts store should you have a breakdown on the highway while traveling.

With a 2500 or 3500 class truck you have a stronger frame and at least with GM and Ram (and possibly with Ford) you do not need a weight distributing hitch. They will also have better braking and it is a good idea to have a tow vehicle that can stop with its trailer even if the trailer brakes malfunction for any reason.

Commonly people will associate reliability only in terms of the engine and overlook the other components like the AC and brakes and electrical system which can all necessitate a trip to the shop. Do not expect any of the three American trucks to be as reliable and trouble free as your Toyota. The Toyota trucks are exceptional.

There are also differences in the towing capabilities in the real world with these trucks. The industry as a whole as refused to go with the J2807 SAE testing procedure where trucks are tested with actual loads on actual roads - what a concept. The only such testing with full size trucks I have found is the one done for 2012 model year 1-ton trucks by Car and Driver.

This article explains the value of J2807 testing for tow vehicles.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/that-dam-towing-test-new-sae-trailering-standards-explained-tech-dept

Whichever truck you get also evaluate the ride, ease of entry for you and your passengers, sound levels at highway speeds, and other comfort factors.

[dbbls]

Get the one you like best, not the one someone else likes best.:)

[Ron3rd]

All good advice above and the most important thing is making sure the truck you buy is equipped properly and rated for what you want to tow; that's more important than brand IMO. If you go diesel just stay away from the ones mentioned above.

[ford_truck_guy]

Remember that IF ordering new the diesel will cost upwards of $9,000.00 up front... You need to decide if that's in your budget...

[ib516]

stargirl96 wrote:
We have a 2008 Toyota Tundra 5.7L V8 which we are thinking about trading in for a bigger truck to pull our 5th wheel. It's a reliable truck with a good ride. I've heard negative things about many trucks from the Big Three as far as reliability goes. Here are my questions:

1) What automaker is more reliable for 3/4 tons?
2) Gas or diesel?
3) Do diesels gets better mpg? I know you certainly pay more for diesel fuel.
4) Anyone have a CNG truck used for towing?

Thanks for any help.

1) None. But I'd avoid the Ford diesels from 2003 - 2010 (6.0L AND 6.4L).
2) Up to you, each has their pro and con. Diesels can be more costly (initial purchase and if any repairs are required), gas engines use more (but generally less expensive) fuel. Diesels make better RV haulers. Etc.
3) Yes, usually in the order of 25% under most conditions.
4) Never read about one, been on these forums 11 years now.

[KD4UPL]

If you're buying a new truck then I'd say all 3 makers are doing pretty well right now. If your talking about a used truck the stay away from Ford 6.0 and 6.4 diesels. Also stay away from the Chevy Duramax in '01 thru '04.5. These years it was the LB7 and had lots of injector problems. Dodge trucks (gas and diesel) up until the introduction of the 68RFE had lots of automatic transmission problems. I would go with a manual unless it's new enough to have the 68RFE or now the new Aisin.

Diesels should get better mileage. The newer ones don't do as well as the older ones. (Thanks EPA).
My '01 Chevy 4x4 dually had an 8.1L gas engine and got about 10 mpg.
My '05 Chevy 4x4 dually has a Duramax diesel engine and gets about 16 mpg.

[mtofell1]

Your questions are all good ones but there's really no definite answer on an internet forum to any of them. Everything you get is going to be opinion based. If you're really serious about upgrading to a newer/bigger truck invest 20-30 hours or more and read through posts on various forums, shop sites for prices, check out reviews from the pros (road and track, etc.) and make a decision based on what you find.

After investing the time the decision becomes easy. You'll end up with the right truck. Wander into some dealership and buy the first thing they push on you and most likely you'll end up disappointed. 20-30 hours sounds like a lot of time but you can pretty much count on making $100 an hour or more when you consider how much a wrong decision would cost you.

[Golden_HVAC]

I don't think I would want to take a CNG truck to Yellowstone NP and then try to find fuel along the way. There are not that many CNG fuel stops near a National Park. It might be fine if you only go limited distance, and always have a place to refill.

I drove a CNG Honda car, the problem it needed fuel every 90 miles. So you drive like 10 miles out of town, then notice that the last person driving it left only 1/2 tank in the car, and your trip might be 45 miles. You have to return to the nearest fuel station, fill it then be able to drive to your meeting or conference.

I know someone who drove a CNG combo truck from Long Beach CA to a confrence in Reno NV. Yes he made it on CNG, he was trying to say "I made it" and stopped in Bakersfield and Fresno, and Sacramento for CNG refills. Had all kinds of adapters, and those cities did not bill him for the fuel. (Billing for 10 - 12 gallons of $1.20 fuel would have been a headache) Anyway his truck would also run on the factory 19 gasoline tank too.

If you have your heart set on both a 3/4 ton and fifth wheel with a 1,500 - 2,000 pound hitch weight, probably should also stick to the lighter gas engine trucks - especially if you will buy used. The newest trucks have much higher GVWR, so might have plenty of cargo capacity, however the 2004 and earlier trucks had low cargo ratings, and the 2,000 pound potential hitch weight can use up more cargo rating than most 3/4 ton trucks come with.

Lets say the truck has a 8,800 pound GVWR and at the curb it is 7,000 pounds, crewcab with lots of options on it. You can only carry 1,800 pounds of people, cargo, and other things in that truck. Better to look for a 2005 and later F-350 with it's more generous 11,000 or 11,500 pound GVWR, and they can carry 4,000 pounds in the F-350 version or 3,000 pounds (about) in the 3/4 ton F-250 version.

What to stay away from?

Lets just say a lot of F-250 and F-350 owners of the 6 Liter diesel and 6.4L diesel sold them cheap to get rid of them. Potential problems are that the oil cooler and exhaust recirculation cooler leak around 100,000 - 120,000 miles. If replaced, and they never leaked, no problem. However one leak means a potential $15,000 engine replacement. This is because coolant will leak into the engine and destroy it.

THe GMC 6.6L engine has proven very reliable. The 5.9L Cummings found in the Dodge trucks has been much more reliable than the truck it is mounted in. Ford's new 6.7L found in the 2011 and later trucks is also a great diesel engine, and very quiet as well. It also comes with the higher GVWR, and high cargo ratings.

Gas engines? Well the 5.4L found in the F-250 and F-350 has 300 HP, should perform as well as your toyota does. The V10 6.8L is a little more power, and is used in 24,000 pound motorhomes, 26,000 pound GVWR F-650 trucks, even with CNG in the larger dump trucks. It is rated at some 360 HP or a little more. But fuel mileage will be less than the F-350 with a 5.4L engine.

I have towed a 7,000 pound generator with a 1994 F-250 and 351" engine. This was factory rated at only 175 - 200 HP, so the 5.4L has much more power than I had, yet still the truck did fine.

Fred.

[LewMichele_Paws]

I've had the Chevy w/gas 6.0L for 12 years/185000 miles and now my daughter has it to haul livestock and as a daily driver with just routine maintenance. I have now had the Ford V10 for 3 years and it just requires routine maintenance. I think the stories of mechanical problems w/American trucks are just rumors.