Can my truck tow this?

[ksnider74]

So like any other new person that's bought a travel trailer I probably have put the cart before the horse. So ultimately the question is can I tow this...
I have a 2019 GMC Sierra Elevation DC 4x4 with the tow package and the L84 engine and a 3.23 gear ratio. The limitations are

9400lb Towing capacity
7000lb gvwr
15000 GCWR
3800 GAWR RR
940 tongue weight

The trailer I bought was a 2020 Venture Sport Trek 322VRL with
1010 dry hitch weight
7580 dry weight
8820 loaded weight

So I know that the owners manual for the truck gives specs and limitations and states any trailer must have a WDH and then shows 50%? So can I tow thing or what?

Thank you all in advance and will appreciate any feedback.

[blt2ski]

I've spent many years and miles towing things heavier than rated for. Some cases, the lower rated truck was by far better than the higher rated truck. Assume both comparisons have the same chassis. Different motors, trans, some cases rear end ratio.
Where and how you tow will also make or break you. All freeway in Florida, way the heck different than here in Puget sound foothills on some city and county streets.
Just my 02 on subject!
Marty

[PA12DRVR]

LanceRKeys wrote:
Hitch up and go. You’ll know after a few tanks of fuel if it will tow it or not. You’ve already spent the money, go enjoy it. If you find you truck isn’t quite up to the task, get a bigger truck, no big deal.

I would say that this largely captures it ^^^^^.

If that doesn't capture it, then go (as slow as you can / want to) to the nearest CAT scale and get the truck/trailer combination weighed in an as-loaded for camping condition.

Check the weights against the published GVWR/GCVWR/Tongue numbers (plus whatever other numbers might apply). If the weights are over, only the OP can decide how much over is acceptable or not.

If I were starting from a blank sheet of paper, I like to be well within the numbers. Life doesn't always deliver a blank sheet of paper so I've done what LanceRKeys suggested and used the "numbers don't add up" combo to whatever degree I felt was safely in control for the drive.

FWIW, I would look at LT tires and double check the hitch rating (as printed on your receive).....

[discovery4us]

twodownzero wrote:

"Axle shafts and bearings are no bigger today than they were 30 years ago. I'm not sure what year 3/4 ton Chevy you're talking about, and whether we're talking about a 6 or 8 lug 3/4 ton, but it is very likely that is not the case. GCWR might have increased because engines have more power than ever, but that simply does not tell the whole story about the vehicle's capability."


2004 Chevy 2500 Payload 3000 lbs. towing 10,300 lbs. 8 lug
2015 Ford F150 Payload 2800 lbs. towing 11,800 lbs.


I agree with the axle shafts and bearings being the same. But with the evolution of engines and multi gear transmissions towing capabilities of 1/2 ton trucks like the OP have gone way up. Likewise the capabilities of 3/4 and 1 ton trucks have gone up. My 1984 Ford F250 Diesel couldn't even hold a candle to my 2005 Ford F250.

I think the OP combination might be a little long and a little heavy on the tongue weight but the fact that he is asking probable means that he will approach the first tow with caution and will make adjustments from the advice received here as well as from the experiences gained from towing.

I also agree with Dutchmen's concerns about doubt but if I shied away from everything I doubted I would have missed a lot of good experiences. Heek I wouldn't have had all these wonderful years with my DW. :):):)

[MFL]

bikendan wrote:

Tvov wrote:
Can you tow it? Yes.... Should you tow it? That is where the arguing comes in...

A lot of perspectives come from those who are very experienced towers. Yet they'll advise a newbie, "Just get out and tow it!".
Towing advice should take into account, the person's towing experience. If they are new, being cautious is warranted. If they're an old hand at towing, then less cautiousness is needed.

Yes, experience matters, operator ability, operator confidence, all important. That's why I mentioned that towing a large trailer may not be comfortable for some, even when all weights easily fit the TV capability. No beginner should start out towing a 35' trailer uphill/downhill in heavy traffic, but at some point, we were all beginners, that gained experience/confidence, by just doing it.

A new, or late model truck will work harder than the manufacturers warranty GCWR number implies. No, not for 200K miles, but the average owner does not keep them that long. I have seen a lot of way over loaded newer trucks hauling, but never noticed any broken sitting on the side of the road.

I would tell the OP to buy a 2500, if he was truck shopping, but he already has the new 1500, and the new trailer. He likely towed the trailer home with his truck. If it was a white knuckle experience, it probably was not the fault of the truck, but maybe too much trailer for a beginner.

Jerry

[bikendan]

Tvov wrote:
Can you tow it? Yes.... Should you tow it? That is where the arguing comes in...

A lot of perspectives come from those who are very experienced towers. Yet they'll advise a newbie, "Just get out and tow it!".
Towing advice should take into account, the person's towing experience. If they are new, being cautious is warranted. If they're an old hand at towing, then less cautiousness is needed.

[twodownzero]

MFL wrote:
"Thanks for the explanation, but ya made up the 8klb towing capacity thing."

This^^^^The OPs truck has a GVWR of 7K, and a GCWR of 15K, but his truck does not weigh anywhere near 7K as it left the factory. For example, if his truck has a payload sticker on the door jam stating not to exceed 1500 lbs, would mean it weighed 5500, when it left the factory. So for example, the OP has added 500 lbs of stuff, would be a curb wt of 6K, allowing another 9K, actually 9400 stated, before reaching the GCWR of 15K.

So while many ratings will be close, the only real concern, safety wise is the factory receiver, that can be replaced. Of course the operators experience/ability towing a large trailer is always a concern, even with a more capable truck.

Jerry

The curb weight of a crew cab 4wd Silverado 1500 is over 5,000 pounds, but I assumed it was 5k pounds to be modest in my rounding. It might be more like 5,300 pounds depending on how equipped. If you take the 5k pound curb weight, add 1000 pounds of tongue weight, and a 200 pound driver, you have 800 pounds of payload remaining for passengers, additional tongue weight due to trailer loading, the hitch itself, etc. If you want to quibble about those how those 800 pounds get eaten up, then so be it, but I suspect that most of us don't tow our trailers with only one person in a 4 door cab, and that 800 pounds will be quickly gone with 3 more passengers and their stuff, and even then, that assumes that nothing you put in the trailer itself raises the tongue weight, which is of course not the case and would not be safe or stable. A more realistic estimate would add 2-300 pounds of tongue weight from loading the trailer, which leaves 500 pounds of remaining payload for your passengers, cargo, and hitch. That's going to be awfully close, if not overloaded. And in any event, GVWR is going to be at or near max in realistic loading. As such, the tow capacity is 8k pounds (the remaining GCWR), not anywhere near 9,400. And it's never going to be even close to that 9,400 in real use. That is why "tow capacity" is ****. If it was a 14k lb GVWR truck that weighed 8k empty, you'd be onto something. But with a truck that has so little payload to begin with, the realistic towing capacity is much closer to GCWR - GVWR than it is the manufacturer's stated hypothetical tow capacity.

Replacing the factory hitch receiver is obviously demanded as well, and once again, that means that you'll be adding weight to the truck and decreasing payload. That said, this is critical--it is never safe to overload a trailer hitch or any component of that system.

[MFL]

"Thanks for the explanation, but ya made up the 8klb towing capacity thing."

This^^^^The OPs truck has a GVWR of 7K, and a GCWR of 15K, but his truck does not weigh anywhere near 7K as it left the factory. For example, if his truck has a payload sticker on the door jam stating not to exceed 1500 lbs, would mean it weighed 5500, when it left the factory. So for example, the OP has added 500 lbs of stuff, would be a curb wt of 6K, allowing another 9K, actually 9400 stated, before reaching the GCWR of 15K.

So while many ratings will be close, the only real concern, safety wise is the factory receiver, that can be replaced. Of course the operators experience/ability towing a large trailer is always a concern, even with a more capable truck.

Jerry

[BenK]

As for gearing...

This is not for everyone, but is on list of things to do for my 1996 Suburban K3500/7.4L. Most will just purchase a newer truck

Rebuild/replace the 4L80E with one rated for 1,000 HP (that place also has 2,000HP versions) for about $3.5K and since I'l be nowhere near that rating, it should last

Add a GearVendors 0.50 OD that also has a gear splitter option. That then turns the 4 speed 4L80E into an 8 speed with double OD. IIRC, they are rated over 1K HP

Change out the diff 4.1 gear sets to 5.38 (don't know if they make it for the front, but will research that)


Back to the OP's question and the last few responses...agree...if they have to ask, they are not confident enough, nor with enough experience to make that risk management decision...so asking for others to make up their mind for them...

OEM's love this, as it begets another purchase or two...

[twodownzero]

Grit dog wrote:
Thanks for the explanation, but ya made up the 8klb towing capacity thing.

Uh, no I didn't. It's simple arithmetic. GCWR - GVWR = 8k pounds. It's in the specs for the vehicle. You can retort and suggest that perhaps assuming GVWR is maxed is excessive. My response to that is 1) the vehicle is over 5k pounds to begin with, 2) the trailer has a tongue weight of over 1k pounds empty, and 3) the weight of the hitch itself and passengers, plus any additional tongue weight from trailer loading must be considered. Even assuming 15% loaded tongue weight, it is not unreasonable at all to conclude, by these deductive methods, that the truck will be at max GVWR or more with this trailer behind. We can go back and forth about how much the driver weighs, the hitch, etc., but the fact is that we have 2k pounds of payload, of which over 50% is gone from empty, unloaded tongue weight alone, and another 10% will be gone as soon as a driver gets inside. If you want to quibble over the remaining 800 pounds (of which the hitch itself will eat some), then so be it.

DutchmenSport wrote:
Well, I suppose it's my turn to chime in. I'm not going to give any information on what can or cannot tow, how much anything can tow, or even should I tow it answers. Nah! My approach is quite different.... Here's the basic tenant when it comes to settling the question... "Can I tow it?" Here goes....

If you had to ask the question in he first place, well??? probably not!

Why? Because you have doubts YOURSELF, regardless of now much pro-or-con and tit-for-tat goes on, on these forum discussions. The bottom line is, the original poster has doubts. And regardless of anyone's answer, he will always have doubts. And if anyone has any doubts, or concerns, or speculations about the ability of their tow vehicle and the trailer being towed, (they, you, or me) will NEVER have 100% confidence! And that ... will always ... result in a white-knuckle drive.

If you had to ask, you have doubts. You've just answered your own question.

In the world of qualitative answers to the question presented, I couldn't have said it better myself. Assuming the concerns addressed are based on some sort of rational approach, I couldn't agree more.

mkirsch wrote:

I'm skeptical what the "tow package" includes if your truck has 3.23 gears, by the way. A hitch receiver is not a "tow package."

Get your head out of the 1970's. The days of 3-speed transmissions and needing 4.10 gears to tow an empty wheelbarrow are long gone. This truck has an 8-speed transmission with a super deep first gear, and well spaced gears between there and the double overdrive.

Where you get the gear reduction is irrelevant, as long as you have it available. 3.23 is a perfectly fine towing gear.

Oooh, good one. What percentage of full size pickups come with gears that high? Does Ford even offer a 3.23 on an F-150? Even within GM sales numbers or on a dealer's lot, what percentage of trucks do you think come with 3.23 gears? I bet it's not many.

Where you get the gear reduction is a big deal for the transmission if you want it to last. I'm sure rebuilding that 8 speed transmission isn't cheap.

[DutchmenSport]

Well, I suppose it's my turn to chime in. I'm not going to give any information on what can or cannot tow, how much anything can tow, or even should I tow it answers. Nah! My approach is quite different.... Here's the basic tenant when it comes to settling the question... "Can I tow it?" Here goes....

If you had to ask the question in he first place, well??? probably not!

Why? Because you have doubts YOURSELF, regardless of now much pro-or-con and tit-for-tat goes on, on these forum discussions. The bottom line is, the original poster has doubts. And regardless of anyone's answer, he will always have doubts. And if anyone has any doubts, or concerns, or speculations about the ability of their tow vehicle and the trailer being towed, (they, you, or me) will NEVER have 100% confidence! And that ... will always ... result in a white-knuckle drive.

If you had to ask, you have doubts. You've just answered your own question.

[BenK]

All designs are for the maximum specification, plus whatever the product team (which includes lawyers, service, regulatory, etc reps) decides and the final decision is upper management paying for the product development

That then boils down to the worst case that product is expected to experience and survive. Toss in service/warranty into that fray

Survive as in lasting long enough to make it past the warranty, plus a bit...ability to manhandle the situation during a Mr Murphy encounter...etc



Back to the OP's ask...'can'...sure most anything 'can', but the real question is for how long and safely

Going over any rating won't have the thing destruct instantly at that transition...but it will sooner than later...

Personally never give 'sure you can' advice, but provide the metrics for the newbie (even oldies like me..71 years old) to make up their own minds in their risk management decision process(s)

Note that all 'half ton' Pickups/SUV/CUV's have rear GAWR in the 3,xxx lb to 4,xxx lb range. While the next higher class Pickups/SUVs has rear GAWR in the +6,xxx lb range...why ? Because most all of the added weight to any Pickup/SUV/CUV is behind the mid point of the wheel base. Just look at them all from the side and you'll find that the drivers door rear edge is about mid point.

Meaning the rear axle will carry most of the added weight. Be it people/pets/cargo/luggage/tongue/PIN/etc

[Terryallan]

mkirsch wrote:

I'm skeptical what the "tow package" includes if your truck has 3.23 gears, by the way. A hitch receiver is not a "tow package."

Get your head out of the 1970's. The days of 3-speed transmissions and needing 4.10 gears to tow an empty wheelbarrow are long gone. This truck has an 8-speed transmission with a super deep first gear, and well spaced gears between there and the double overdrive.

Where you get the gear reduction is irrelevant, as long as you have it available. 3.23 is a perfectly fine towing gear.

Wonder why the engineers give the lower gears a higher tow package??? Just saying.

[Terryallan]

IMOP. you need more truck, or less trailer. You are already over the hitch capacity. That is only going to get worse as you load the TT. and in the past. GM has a bad rep for hitches / receivers breaking.

[Grit_dog]

Thanks for the explanation, but ya made up the 8klb towing capacity thing.
I get it some people are far more cautious than others or less experienced or less capable, but the claims on this website are not of sound logic but rather, Sky is falling type stuff that can not be substantiated by any more than possibly, maybe , if your lucky a single or small amount of occurrences that the perpetrators of the “theories” likely don’t even know the root or contributing causes of.
Difference is, I, like some, am an engineer by profession and a mechanic/construction worker by trade, so I have a broader range of experiences and education to use to assimilate my responses ( to these types of questions), which generally are not blanket reccomendations without qualifications in instances like this thread.
Whereas the, Ill call them, naysayer responses are usually unsubstantiated and yet somehow absolute in nature.
Difference between a lawyer and an engineer I suppose. One person actually develops the answers for the world and the other tries to twist them into something their not many times because we both get paid for our results at the end of the day and have to do our jobs, even if they both require you showering when you get home to remove different types of stink.

[twodownzero]

Grit dog wrote:

twodownzero wrote:

Grit dog wrote:
To the OP, no one is suggestion that you have the ultimate tow vehicle. But rather, it's adequate.

As a number of people have demonstrated above, it may not be adequate, and it may actually be dangerous.

I think there are some simple numbers here that show this is not a viable combination.

15,000 lb GCWR - 7000 lb tow vehicle leaves, realistically, 8,000 pounds of towing capacity, not 9,400. The 9,400 pound towing capacity is based on the unrealistic expectation of you only having a 150 pound driver in the truck, which is ridiculous. You may squeeze another 500 pounds out of it, but remember that the tongue weight and the weight of the hitch have to come from that GVWR number. The curb weight of the truck is not mentioned, but given that the payload of a truck like this likely inadequate for a trailer this heavy, assuming GVWR as the weight of the tow vehicle is not unrealistic at all (note posters above talking about 20% tongue weight, which itself will probably eat all of the payload before the driver even gets in the truck).

I'm skeptical what the "tow package" includes if your truck has 3.23 gears, by the way. A hitch receiver is not a "tow package."

With 8,000 pounds of towing capacity, it is not realistic to believe that a trailer with a 7,500 pound empty weight will ever be even close to within ratings. At a bare minimum, you need 1,000 pounds for your gear, water, propane, batteries, etc.

The only way to know for sure is to weigh the empty combination and load accordingly, but I'm willing to bet that GVWR is busted right out of the gate way before you get near the 15k lb. GCWR, and let's face it, a combination of vehicles with 16k+ pounds of rating and a 15k lb. GCWR is going to be very tight on numbers regardless.

With careful loading and a good hitch, it may not be completely terrifying, but I would bet that in real world use, this combination would be significantly overloaded. A 1/2 ton truck, especially a 4 door, 4wd one with all the options, is better suited to a 25' travel trailer than one that is 30'+ in length. As you'll probably note from my past posts, I will never own a 1/2 ton truck again, but ultimately it's because the truck itself is not rated to support the payload needed for heavier trailers that becomes a problem. The rationale for those ratings is soft suspension, p-metric tires, and a semi floating rear axle--all things easily solved by buying the right truck for the load.

We're all guessing as to how close or far you'll be, but I suspect you're way further than you think from this being safe or advisable.

Well there ya go making up numbers about vehicles you don't have knowledge about to support your "case".
It doesn't sound so dramatic if you use the actual numbers and they actually work though.
Carry on with the supposition and unsubstantiated paranoia...

If you knew nothing else than the truck has 8,000 pounds of towing capacity and the trailer weighs 7,500 pounds empty, and the only answers were "yes" or "no" to the question presented, the only responsible answer is "no."

Deductive reasoning is not "supposition" or "unsubstantiated paranoia." The curb weight of these trucks is not an unknown. Meaningful estimates of tongue weight are not hard to produce. Realistic expectations about towing capacity are possible without weighing the combination.

If you want the short answer for the original poster, the answer is no.

The rationale for why the answer is no is more complicated. It is hypothetically possible that this trailer could be towed, empty, with driver only in the truck, with the right hitch, and assuming the stated weights are accurate. It is unrealistic to believe that will be the case with water, propane, additional passengers, and basic household goods in the trailer, based on some simple arithmetic. If you want to call that supposition, then I wonder if you'd call a weight ticket the same thing. After all, if you didn't calibrate the load cell, it's lying, too, right?

discovery4us wrote:

I always get a chuckle out of those that say not to tow with a half ton. My current F150 has better tow ratings than my chevy 3/4 ton has. Trucks have advanced leaps and bounds.

Axle shafts and bearings are no bigger today than they were 30 years ago. I'm not sure what year 3/4 ton Chevy you're talking about, and whether we're talking about a 6 or 8 lug 3/4 ton, but it is very likely that is not the case. GCWR might have increased because engines have more power than ever, but that simply does not tell the whole story about the vehicle's capability.

It really does people a disservice to have these low payload capacity trucks have the horsepower they have, because it's one thing to have a setup that moves well in traffic because it accelerates well and yet another thing to control, steer, and stop that mess in bad weather, wind, and other adverse towing conditions. That's when these things become dangerous. I can't imagine wanting to experience that while I am on vacation, supposed to be enjoying my leisure time.