Can someone explain this?

[ShinerBock]

Well I guess that everyone checked out of the thread where I posted this because no one seemed to answer it and the thread died shortly there after(unless no one had an answer). So here is to hoping that a new thread will get new looks and maybe an explanation.

Can someone explain this? This F350 has a lower front GAWR, lower rear GAWR, and lower combined GAWR yet has a higher GVWR than my 2500. Kind of goes along with what I have been saying about some(not all) class 2B(250/2500) diesel trucks are de-rated due EPA and federal max GVWR numbers of their class rather than their actual carrying ability, but I would love to hear anyone else's explanation or guess.


2017 F350
Front GAWR: 5,600
Rear GAWR: 6,340
Combined GAWR: 11,940
GVWR: 11,500





My 2014 Ram 2500
Front GAWR: 6,000
Rear GAWR: 6,500
Combined GAWR: 12,500
GVWR: 10,000





I can see how this GM 3500 got its 11,500 GVWR rating even though it has a lower front GAWR then mine. The Ram 3500 SRW has just about the same rating, but with a 6,000 front GAWR and a 7,000 rear GAWR.

2018 GM 3500
Front GAWR: 5,600
Rear GAWR: 7,050
Combined GAWR: 12,650
GVWR: 11,500

[mich800]

ShinerBock wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:
Simply a matter of 'Classification' ----No mystery involved

I was looking for an explanation from those people on how a truck with less GAWR can have a higher GVWR.

I am confused by this statement. Does this have to do with your post on another thread. Because you gave no examples like this here. All combined axle limits were higher than GVWR. Unless I miss read something.

Or are you making comparisons between different trucks. Because if you are, if you are not bald now you will be trying to rationalize this variance.

[ShinerBock]

demiles wrote:
Are RAM and Chevy trucks crew cab 8 ft.bed like the Ford?

The Ford is a long wheel base, my Ram is a short bed, anf GM is a short bed.

demiles wrote:
Are all of them diesel power?

All are diesels.

demiles wrote:
Does any of them have snow plow prep front springs or camper pkg?

Not sure.

demiles wrote:
There’s a lot of unknowns just looking at the stickers of each.

Yes, but I think you are missing my point. My point is why does a truck that has less GAWR have a higher GVWR. Shouldn't a truck a 12,500 combined GAWR have a higher GVWR that a truck that only has an 11,940 combined GAWR?

[nickthehunter]

ShinerBock wrote:
..... I was looking for an explanation from those people on how a truck with less GAWR can have a higher GVWR.

i provided one possible explanation. In short, there is no direct correlation between GAWR and GVWR. You can have 10 ton axles on a 5 ton frame.

[Grit_dog]

The explanation is why people shouldn’t take the stickers for gospel. The loads on the stickers only marginally represent the vehicles capabilities.

[demiles]

Are RAM and Chevy trucks crew cab 8 ft.bed like the Ford? Are all of them diesel power? Does any of them have snow plow prep front springs or camper pkg? There’s a lot of unknowns just looking at the stickers of each.

[ShinerBock]

nickthehunter wrote:
Maybe it’s the brakes. A vehicle has to meet NHTSA requirements for braking ability tested at GVW. Not enough braking, lower The GVW until it does.

The GAWR is the limit of the "axle system" which includes brakes, suspension, and axle so the 6,500 on my rear axle is due to the weakest link of those three components. I do know that the 11.5" rear axle alone on my 2500 is rated at 10,000 per the manufacturer, AAM.

[nickthehunter]

Maybe it’s the brakes. A vehicle has to meet NHTSA requirements for braking ability tested at GVW. Not enough braking, lower The GVW until it does. There is no way to tell why the GVWR is what it is.

[blt2ski]

Same question I had over my 81 C2500, but gcw 8500 lb, gvw 8600 lbs! ummmmmmmm so being as gcw is basically a performance standard, does that mean the truck should not be rated to the chassis ability?

Its probably more a how much, who is going to buy that truck per the manufactures people, so it is gvw'd per that end users useage. Sell something to me, I will push axel limits, ie most of us in construction or equal type commercial uses do push our rigs. Hence the lower gvw per total of gaw limits.

At the end of the day, I still feel a given rigs GVW should equal the sum of the GAW's. I can also see how the manufactures will artificially lower the GVW because of many HOA's wordings of no vehicles over 10,000 gvw or 1 ton trucks. Licensing per some states, not all are like here in Wa state where EVERYONE pays tonnage in a pickup, both commercial and personal use. Pretty cut and dry here on over/under 10,0000 lbs vehicles speed limits on freeways, etc. But based on the paid for registration, NOT the door sticker.

Marty

[ShinerBock]

Old-Biscuit wrote:
Simply a matter of 'Classification' ----No mystery involved

I know, and I agree with you as I stated in my original post. However, there seems to be some people that think otherwise like in the "3/4 Ton vs 1 Ton" and other threads that only look at the GVWR or the number on the side of the door of trucks and not all the specs. I was looking for an explanation from those people on how a truck with less GAWR can have a higher GVWR.

[Old-Biscuit]

Simply a matter of 'Classification'
MFGs set 'classification' for Registration Purposes

No mystery involved

[ShinerBock]

IdaD wrote:
I doubt all F350s are rated that low. Maybe the tires on that model are the limiting feature?

I had 20's on my truck new as well(as you can see on my sticker). And you are correct that not all F350's are rated this low, however, almost all of the F350's on the lots we visited had this same rating when I was helping my father in law order his new truck.

Although, this thread is more about how a truck with less all around GAWR can have a higher GVWR. Not trying to pick on pick on Ford here. It is just the only sticker example I have that has a lower all around GAWR but higher GVWR then my truck.

[IdaD]

I doubt all F350s are rated that low. Maybe the tires on that model are the limiting feature?

[mkirsch]

No great mystery to it. It's all about the "class" of the truck when it comes to licensing / registration.

10,000 is the limit for Class 2b. You'll never see a higher limit for a "3/4 ton" truck, ever. Manufacturers don't want to push the trucks into that higher-cost category for licensing and registration.

[parker_rowe]

I believe the general idea is that the GVWR on 3/4 to 1 ton trucks is set by the manufacturer based on where they want it to fall in various classes.

All 2500's, IIRC, max out at 10K (some older ones may be lower). Puts them in s specific weight class even if all the equipment is the same as the respective 3500. In a lot of years, the only difference was that the 3500 version had extra rear overload springs.

This is not 100% always the case, but it explains why the totaled GAW doesn't equal the GVWR.

So basically, I guess I am agreeing with your take on it.

If I'm wrong, I'm sure someone will let us know! 🙂