Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[scrity]

I am seriously considering a diesel 4x4 but have a hangup about the diesel fumes, even though the newer models are better. My concern is pulling a TT and the fumes entering the TT and now having to live with the smell for the duration of the camping trip. Are others who own diesel rigs finding this to be thacase or am off base here?

The other issue is morning starts. Temps around here pretty much stay around 40 degrees during the winter months. Does a diesel owner experience rough starts with the newer engines at these temps? Or can I expect to just get in and go?

[tgatch]

I bought 4 Gallons of Oil for $31, truck takes 15 quarts. My filter runs $18. I change mine every 5,000. Manual says I can go 7500 miles. I use the heavy use schedule though. For comparisson sake, If I had a V-10. Oil Filter is $6 and I would run 6 quarts of Mobil 1 in it every oil change. Mobil 1 goes for about $4 a quart.

Fuel filter is a stinker at $54, but that get's changed every 15,000 miles. Of course anyone that cares about their gas truck should do this periodically too. The V-10 filter will run about $7 as a comparisson

Coolant/antifreeze? 27.5 Quarts. It is the same in the V-10. So no costs savings there.

I don't run any additives in my truck. Haven't had the need to do so.

I change the oil, oil filter, and fuel filters myself as they are extremely easy to do. I did have Grease Monkey change my oil a couple times. Didn't cost all that much more than having them do a full synthetic on my 2001 F150.

So I go through a little more oil than a V-10. I hear that the 8.1 does consume about a quart of oil about every 3,000 miles. That is a characteristic of a big block, nothing uncommon or bad. Let's see even if there is a $20 difference per oil change, the $450 fuel consumption per 10,000 mile advantage will be trimmed to $410. Ok after 30,000 miles that would be $1230 right? Wait I have to account for 2 fuel filters in there, so that would be $108 in fuel filters so that trims the savings down a little more. I guess I would be looking at $1122 in savings at 30,000 miles. That's about how many miles I drive in a year by the way, about 40% of which has been towing.

Still keep in mind that the V-10 version of my truck was about $4,000 less. So, I paid up front to have the diesel. At my current rate, break even will be just short of 4 years.

Tom

[rvtravlr444]

tgatch,
What are your maintenance costs for the diesel? Oil and filter change, fuel filter, coolant flush plus additive vs. a gasser. At what intervals do have them changed?

RVTRAVLR444

[PSDExcursion]

I only read the first 5 pages of this thread, but didnt see mention on replacement parts costs.

How much for a starter on a cummings compared to a 454gasser? Waterpump? Fuel Pump? ACK, Injectors?

Whats the cost differences of remanufactured motors of each? And for the trannies?

Whats the cost difference for fatory create replacements?

If a person plans on keeping his rig for 400K miles, I'm sure these cost's must come into play somewhere.

Just wondering...

100% of HD trucks are diesel powered and most are driven well over 400,000 miles.

[Aquaduct]

For more information, do a search online for bio fuel, and you'll get the scoop! In fact I'm thinking about going into business, although, remember the guy in the early '80s who made fuel from
garbage? (Probably ethanol?) He was on 60 Minutes. He had had attempts on his life.....and where is he now?

Linda

Not to take the wind out of your sails, but I'm a diesel engine engineer. Yep, biodiesel is an established technology. There are some technical differences with regular diesel that aren't that significant in a modern engine. It's safe to say that good biodiesel is a satisfactory replacement for diesel.

That said, most engine manufacturers will only warrant an engine on a fuel that is, at most, 5% biodiesel (technically called B5). This is primarily for 2 reasons:

1. The biodeisel industry can't make that much anyways.

2. Quality control in the biodiesel is hit and miss. There are good biodiesel suppliers but there is a substantial amount of bad fuel. A big slug of bad fuel will destroy the injectors, generally the most expensive components on the engine, and/or other parts.

This comes from the fact that there are bunches of folks brewing stuff with less than critical attention to or understanding of the subtleties of large batch chemical processing, which is a whole different ballgame from refining petroleum or brewing a batch in your sink.

So at B5, we're comfortable that crummy biodiesel won't exist in enough concentrations to damage the engine. Y'all want to brew and use your own, that's fine. You break it, you've bought it. If you want to sell to others, be sure your product liability insurance is paid up just in case you screw up a big pot.

[tgatch]

I only read the first 5 pages of this thread, but didnt see mention on replacement parts costs.

How much for a starter on a cummings compared to a 454gasser? Waterpump? Fuel Pump? ACK, Injectors?

Whats the cost differences of remanufactured motors of each? And for the trannies?

Whats the cost difference for fatory create replacements?

If a person plans on keeping his rig for 400K miles, I'm sure these cost's must come into play somewhere.

Just wondering...

Transmission is easy. Torqshift is available with the v10 and the diesel. The Allison is behind the 8.1 as well as the Duramax. I would venture to say that the 4 speed 48RE is less complicated and les expensive than the new 5 speed auto in the Dodge trucks.

Now water pump? 2003 Cummins $45, Hemi $86.

Starter? 2001 Duramax $150, 8.1 $140 - $209. Depending on maker.

Fuel Pump? 2000 Ford 7.3 $214 - $478, 6.8 V-10 $139-$693 Depends on maker.

About the only injector prices I have found so far are for the Duramax. US Diesel parts has new ones at $785.00 and remanufactured ones for $550.00 w/core exchange.

To put that into context The 8.1 injectors are Between $68 and $85.

As far as remanufactured motors go. If it becomes that much of a problem, time for a new vehicled anyway.

I figure I'm saving about $450 per 10,000 miles in fuel cost. Even with diesel being expensive. So let's see at 400,000 I will have saved $18000 in fuel costs. That's assuming 17 mpg for the diesel and 12 for the big block gas.

Not likely that I'll keep it that long, but you brought it up.

Tom

[JimInMich]

I only read the first 5 pages of this thread, but didnt see mention on replacement parts costs.

How much for a starter on a cummings compared to a 454gasser? Waterpump? Fuel Pump? ACK, Injectors?

Whats the cost differences of remanufactured motors of each? And for the trannies?

Whats the cost difference for fatory create replacements?

If a person plans on keeping his rig for 400K miles, I'm sure these cost's must come into play somewhere.

Just wondering...

[hone_eagle]

mom bio-fuels bin around for a while,usally as a % mixed with the dead dino juice.lots of threads out there about alternate fuels,some diesel guys burn there own engine oil(after they change it)hows that for recycle,restarant grease,on and on.Oh by the way we love the mannly smell and the smoke is for the open windows of the little eco-ricers with booming radios.LOL

[Keikoas_Mom]

just saw this thread, and I know it's old, butI have some valuable and interesting info. I personally don't like Diesels because they are smelly and pollute so much, but my son recently saw a show about Bio-Fuel, and I wish I had one!

Bio-fuel (for ALL diesels) is made from vegetable oil and other ingrediants, and can be made at home. More importantly, it can be made from USED cooking oil, from Winchells, KFC, etc. I don't have the whole process, but it is being made in two locations in CO, and several in CA-sorry, that's all I know off-hand.

For more information, do a search online for bio fuel, and you'll get the scoop! In fact I'm thinking about going into business, although, remember the guy in the early '80s who made fuel from
garbage? (Probably ethanol?) He was on 60 Minutes. He had had attempts on his life.....and where is he now?

Linda

[JohnnyCMH]

Do you own the property pictured around your wonderful RV?

How did you find the property?

It looks like there are a lot of other RVers around you. Is that true?

I notice you have a 32ft. rig. What do you think is the maximum size RV your Dodge Ram will handle?

[Willcamp4]

Next time you go on a trip look to see what is towing the big trailers.

Ford diesels.

Heck of a note. I'm a Chevy fan who now owns a Ford.

They are all good trucks. Drive what you like and be proud of what you have. Just don't fault the next guy because he might be different. Nobody is going to convince the next guy that they are the one in the wrong, so just test drive what you are interested in and pick your favorite. You will know you got what was right for you.

[tgatch]

For the price and incentive that are available, buy new.

As far as noise, the GM with the Duramax is quieter.

Smell is really not a problem with the newer diesel. You might start to smell it if you pull of at a rest stop and idle for a couple minutes. The other thing is sometimes the pump handles are messy.

Maintainence, the ford will take more oil. 15 qts vs the Duramax's 12 I beleieve. Fuel filters cost more for the Ford, but it is a kit of two filters. Most Duramax owners add a secondary filter anyway.

Service is totally dealer based. If you like one, but don't like the dealer, find another dealer. My father used to drive 45 mile to a GM dealer to get his buick serviced. Sure there was closer, but this dealer went way out of their way to make the customer feel like the only Customer that day.

Both will pull the 10,000+lbs 5er you are talking about so, find the one that suits you. I would have bought either, GM just didn't want to budge on the price. My first choice was the new Cummins 600, but I was going to have to order one and couldn't wait.

[Jack-Pine_Sava1]

I am trying to decide whether to purchase a 2003 or a 2004 Ford or GM (diesel of course). Or should we spend the load and buy new (either make). I talk to owners and they all love their truck and wouldn't have the other make. I think that I have eliminated Dodge. I like GM so far because we think that our test drives told us that DMax was quieter.
We presently pull a 6K lb TT but plan to pull a 10/11K lb TT or 5'er in the near future.
We need some advice...ie 1.noise, 2.smell, 3.service, 4.mainteance. The rest is elementary as I've spent months looking for a good used or the right maker.

[gon2dadawgs]

It was awful....my CTD with well over 200K only got 12 over the rockies towing 8000 lbs.....I found the fuel leak! True story!

Yes, they are a bit noisy but they have their place. If you have some weight to pull consider a diesel..IMHO

Michael

[J_Fred]

Happy Holidays everyone. I did not read all 489 posts but I did read many. I have a 2003qclb Hemi that is a real treat to drive. Lots of power, sounds good and rides great. I do not have to rotate the tires at every oil change because the engine is so heavy and I have not heard od problems with brakes that the cd and v10's had. We just returned from our maiden voyage with the toyhauler and got 7.x for 1600 miles or about 200+ miles per 35 gal tank. This engine has 16 plugs that need to be changed every 30,000 and the 5spd auto should be serviced every 30-40,000 pulling 20 tons so my guess is that maintanence cost will be close to a smoker. I now the Hemi is a good engine (it is not the 426 casting) but it does have 4 bolt mains and a strong set of rods, but i cannot believe it will pull at 3000 to 5000 rpm's for as many miles as a diesel doing the same thing at 2500 rpm. It seems that the majority think its worth the stink and noise and since ALL class 8's are smokers it would seem that as a future "part" full timer it would make sense to change. Question: can you run 75 to 80 mph with air with 7 tons of 5vr and does it leave black soot on the trailer. My 1 cent worth. Thanks for the debate it has really got me thinking.
Fred/Kenna and buster the whippet