Diesel vs gas......................

[blt2ski]

OK folks, there have been a few to many diesel vs gas threads that have shall we say gone to "Hell and a hand basket"! So if all of you would put in you BEST, no flaming reasons for going gas vs diesel, pro and con, I will either leave your thread, or copy and paste pertinant info to the 4 posts of pro and con of diesel or gas. This can include the GM 8.1 vs Dmax or Ford V-8/10 vs PSD etc too.

Be real and honest in you answers, not hear say, flaming etc PLEASE!

If posts are good ones, I will leave, if inflamatory or trolling in nature, they will be deleted! I will get this stick'd to the top for future parusing for those that need this type of info.

Added 6-23-04

We are getting closer to answers I am looking for etc.

Stuff like Ken's - T-Bone posts are good. There are a few others of you that have not posted, some with a 9 point question and answer type to figure out how you went with one or the other. If you are one of those, PLEASE repost in this thread. I may have to look up whom has done this and PM you, but if you think this is you, you now know what to do.

Also, for those of you with $ per gallon for either fuel right now, I would prefer to see a post with ...."in my area, diesel is typically .10 less than unleaded" then explain your numbers. As currently in the Seattle area, diesel and unleaded are any where from 2.05 -2.30 per gallon, with mid test .10 more and premium about .20 more, with equal high low splits. Two weeks ago those prices were upwards of .30 -.40 per gallon more. people were posting $ per gallon that were for me. "I wish" If someone is reading your post a year from now, they may want to know where your paying 1.65, when the price of fuel is over $3 per gallon. Let's keep prices out of it if possible.

Bert and tin tipi, got into a good discusion on the pros and cons of RPM's, drive train etc. I would prefer to NOT see the quote of the other in responding threads, maybe just write a quick wording of re tranny gearing, instead of the whole 40 words or so in that paragragh, so the repsonse is shorter if possible quicker and easier to read etc.

I have deleted some 15+/- posts, that were off topic etc. Please note, I am trying to keep this at the top, as the ONLY gas/diesel thread in this area. So if one is trying to decide, we do not have to go thru this BS any more. As such, I will be deleting ANY future posts close to resembling this type of topic. I may have to change "this" title to a better one, if one has a better sounding title, to be more positive, better claification, let me know here, or in a PM/e-mail, what ever you feel most comfortible with.

Again thank you for all of you that are keeping responses positive, etc.

Also we could use a few more positive reasons to go gas, as many can see I have both gas and diesel, both have a place! Both have positive reasons to buy that fuel, lets keep the threads etc to that purpose only!

Marty

[pupeperson]

Here's the sum and substance of the gas vs diesel debate for me:

I drive a truck for a living. It's a diesel. It's also a very powerful diesel, it runs reeeeeely strong -- reeeeeeeely reeeeeely strong. Every day driving it is like going hunting --- finding that really sharp looking, brand new truck w' all the bells and whistles and just making it look pathetic on the hills.. Stupid? Probably yes. Fun? Undeniably yes! Since I'm in an expedited type of business and it shortens up my trip times by not slowing down on the hills, it also makes good business sense. I don't have time to screw around and I'm well paid for accomplishing regularly what others apparently can't make happen.

Now, after driving a truck like that, year after year for hundreds of thousands (maybe a million) miles, having a vehcile that when you push on the skinny pedal, something happens, why would I want to get into a little gas popper and struggle around with my fiver? Getting in everyone's way and being the last guy to arrive at camp cuz I couldn't keep up w/ traffic, falling on my nose on every little grade etc, etc. while everyone else just leaves it on cruise and motors off into the sunset would just be wrong! Just plain wrong!!

And that's why I have a diesel and love to drive it and wouldn't have it any other way. If it happens to cost a little more, so be it, cuz it's worth so much more - to me anyway.

[pig78]

Let me word that differently-I've just never concerned myself with mileage on any 3/4 ton or larger gas truck I've bought. I know it isn't going to be there. I just watch the fuel gauge, if I'm in familiar territory I'll start looking at 1/4 tank. If I'm on a trip and things aren't to familiar, I'll start lookihng at 1/2 tank. Like I said; just my opinion.

[marty649]

I don't care what the price of unleaded is, if tomorrow unleaded was .39 per gallon and Diesel remained what it is now I still would keep my diesel. I travel across the country 3 times per year (towing), if I had a gas engine I'd had to buy a new truck every couple years. I get 14.27 MPG towing = fill up between 1700 -1800 miles. Running empty 20.8 MPG 2600 - 2800 range. My truck is also much quieter that some of my earlier diesels.

[Paul_Clancy]

I'm with you for most of that except why is fuel mileage irrelevant? Since diesel gets substantially better mileage loaded and somewhat better unloaded it would seem to impact total cost of ownership. In some areas extra cost of diesel fuel makes that a non issue. Where I am diesel is cheaper than gas so that's a tough debate, granted.

[pig78]

Hey, new to the forum and happened to be browsing through this topic with great interest. I've always loved the gas/diesel debate. I thought I'd throw in my two cents, so here it goes:

First, you're towing something, torque is the first thing you should look at (where it's made and how much). Horsepower is second as it is a byproduct of torque. IMHO todays engines all have adequate horsepower whether they are gas or diesel, so that is pretty much a nonissue for me.

Second, arguing fuel mileage is irrelavant in my opinion. If you buy a gasser you're not concerned with fuel mileage.

Third, a properly maintained diesel will long outlive a properly maintained gasser when both are used as they are intended. The reason is simple. We all know that diesels make their power in the lower RPM ranges, thus they make it where the engine is not having to work as hard as a gas engine does. Less work=less wear.

I currently own a Chevy 2500HD with the 6.0 and am lucky to have a generous boss who has given me a me a Dodge 2500 Mega 4wd with the CTD. I love driving both, and with 10k pounds the Dodge does pull much easier than the Chevy. However, I have not been disappointed by the Chevy, it has done everything I've asked of it and at 85k miles has yet to give me a problem. Personally, I'd strongly recommend a diesel if you are frequently towing heavy loads, such as retirees who RV constantly, and/or tow for great distances. If not it's up in the air, take care of whichever and you'll be fine. By the way, those last two statements are for individuals to determine.

[radiohokie]

Cheaper or not...that was not really the issue for me.

Here I was, towing with my previous gasser: :@

Here I am, towing with my PSD: :B

[bluenote]

TxCoastCamper wrote:
The whole thing about cheaper, it just is not

Sorry, but this is not always true. It is still cheaper for many of us to run a diesel. Those who do not tow much and/or do not put very many miles per year on their truck may find your statement accurate, but those of us with heavy coaches and also put a fair number of miles yearly on their truck will still be able to realize a savings with the diesel.

[TxCoastCamper]

Actually, fuel costs, and diesel engine costs have gone the way of making the diesel more exensive than ever!

Why, back when diesel was 20 or 30% cheaper than gas, got way better mpg, and cost only $750 more as an option - now that was a deal. Now with diesel costing more than gas, diesel fuel mileage being reduced as performance gains, and the d@mn engines costing so much more...

Then again, if your towing heavy, go diesel because it tows.

The whole thing about cheaper, it just is not - unless ya tow heavy, and ya tow a lot, really a lot...

[malio]

for towing itsa no brainer. diesel tows much better up and down hills plus the engine will last much longer. fuel costs have gotten to the point where the per gallon cost is far outweighed by mpg so if I can travel 30-40 percent further with diesel you tell me which is cheaper.

[Rvndave]

What was your point?

[Harry_]

I am from Austria, Europe. What does this have to do with gas vs. diesel? Well, in Austria (or Germany or many other European countries) about 80% of every (new) car is a diesel! In the US? Maybe half a percent or less?

Okay, but this is about the higher gas/diesel prices in Europe, right? No, it is not! Cars are bought by emotion and emotion only. It is a religion (for men, at least). What we do is to justify our desires by finding arguments. Okay, not us, the other people. We do not feel cool driving a huge truck, having that many horsepower under the hood. We do not care that other people from the camp ground coming over to us when we drive in with the newest 08 model with the huge chrome grille on the front. Okay, the huge chrome grille is maybe to protect us better than let’s say a steal beam would do, and it is just a coincidence that chrome is shiny and looking cool. We don’t care, because we are only thinking rational and we only bought the XLXSXLTLLL version because of better resell value - but we just hate the CD player, the leather seats, and the special rims which came with this package.

But back to Europe: the diesel boom started when Audi (VW) invented the tdi, the turbo diesel, and showed how cool that torque is. Fleet managers got told to buy that new tdi's, as they will save so much money (if run for 100k+ miles, but who cares). All of a sudden men felt cool having a diesel, and omg, they also started buying BMWs diesels, and even sporty convertibles got diesel engines: can you imagine the nice knocking diesel sound and smell when driving your convertible. But wait, after 100k+ it is cheaper! Most convertibles will never reach 80 (in Europe).

So the catch 22 was taking off. For whom in particular? For the german car makers! US cars did not even have a diesel as an option, and Japanese cars did only start to offer lousy ones because the market (=the men) demanded diesels. Why do you think that Asian car makers spent million of dollars to establish hybrid cars in the US and not diesels which get the same gas mileage, cost less, are much more reliable, and are a proven technology? Reason one is that with their hybrids they have a lead over German car makers diesels and want to claim their territories in the US as a new understanding of oil consumption (and environmental issues) takes place. But two, Americans simply do not buy diesel cars. This is not cool, to be honest, we all want a Corvette Z06 with an V8 (and never with a V6 diesel).

Now trucks are not for men but for real men. It is interesting to see, that despite the car sector, the diesel is the must have engine. As there might be as many arguments for either side, let’s think about it: A truck with a gas engine might cost 30,000 while the same truck with a diesel costs 40,000. Let’s assume that of the 30,000 for the gas truck the motor costs a third or 10,000 of the total price. This means that the manufacturer asks 20,000 for a diesel motor which may or may not be a little bit more complicated to build than the 10,000 dollar gas engine. But twice the price - this for sure is not based on real costs. This is only done because people (men) are willing to pay that upside. If only rational we would indirectly force the manufacturers to offer diesels for the same amount of money (or $500 more for whatever reason) by not buying them until they would reach that goal – but we do buy them at the price as well.

Okay, I was tying to much here, but now I have to go and find me a truck for my fifth wheel I got last Sunday. And I am for sure looking for a cool truck, preferably the new '08 F250 (very impressive) or the new '07 Silverado (very nice dash board, and Dale Earnhardt jnr. also drives Chevys). I will most likely go for a V8 gas. And this, only because for me American cars simply have to have V8s, and they have to sound great as only V8s can - specially coming from a Ford Focus Diesel Hatchback country. Maybe not the most reasonable decision, but one which will give me a smile whenever I start the engine.

Go for whatever you want and like, gas or diesel (or hybrid – aargh) as long as you can convince your wife - this is hard enough, don’t try to convince other men/truck drivers, they will never change their religion (but is at least fun to discuss).

[Rvndave]

Not downshifting, increased MPG, and power.

[windellmc]

$4000 for a diesel is quickly going away. It is about $5000 to upgrade from Hemi to CTD on the '07 Dodge. Expect an extra $1000 for an '08. An '08 GMC Diesel option is $6000 before you figure in the $1000 for the Allison. It looks like the '07 Ford is around $4400. Expect that to go up a bit in '08.

I think the big attraction to the Diesel is not having to downshift on just about any hill?

[kimomjtb]

:Z

[TxCoastCamper]

RvnDave, glad you like to spend and have fun. Enjoy your smokey burnouts! I didn’t miss ‘resale value’, refer back to my earlier post where I wrote directly about it.

But if resale is important to some, hey, different strokes for different folks.

Cheap? No, we spend wisely, so too it seems does Glock35. DW and I find it rewarding to be able to buy anything we might want, AND to realize that most wants are fleetingly emotional while expensive to pursue.

We could get a new truck, pay cash yesterday even. But why? Such a purchase would be based mostly on want. The only driving ‘need’ we have is that the kids sometimes kick the back of DW's seat, so a CrewCab would be nice. But stuff is just stuff. The smell of a new vehicle is probably carcinogenetic anyway...

We have a great fun doing family things, camping, taking nice vacations.

Fixing things that are not working - with our girls ‘helping’ - now that is truly priceless!

Different lives lived: Our house - paid for. Truck and SUV - paid for. College funds for our 4 and 5 girls - completed.

For a long time now we have lived with no payments for anything. No interest wasted to anyone.

Man that’s sweet!