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F150 aluminum & resulting MPG

bmanning
Explorer
Explorer
Much lighter F150

Some "experts" predict 30mpg.

Sounds wildly optimistic to me but what do you guys think?

Can shaving 750lb result in that dramatic an increase?

Will that 750lb loss result in less control when towing?
BManning
baking in Phoenix :C
-2007 Volvo XC90 AWD V8
4.4L 311/325 V8 6sp Aisin loaded
6100lb GVW 5000lb tow
-1999 Land Cruiser
4.7L 230/320 V8 4sp A343 loaded
6860 GVW 6500lb tow
RV'less at the moment
27 REPLIES 27

GoPackGo
Explorer
Explorer
For crying out loud, if they can make cars out of plastic, what's the big deal with a little aluminum ?

They already make the hood out of aluminum - I've not read of any disasters. Blocks and heads are made from the stuff. Just need to figure out which alloy to use.

And personally, I think it's great that they'll use more metal that won't rust !

Wes_Tausend
Explorer
Explorer
...

Aluminum is not an overall good metal to entirely make standard road vehicles. While it can be used quite successfully for sheeting, and casting flaws have largely been solved, it makes poor under-frames that tend to crack unless greatly oversized and nearly flexless.

The aluminum metal is inherently quite soft and has to be alloyed pretty brittle to harden it enough to provide springiness to retain shape. Much of the weight savings is therefore lost, and expense is up, when used for channel frames. Fortunately Ford is keeping steel in important places, like the frame and box. Open boxes flex quite a bit and I would guess testing revealed too much cracking. Closed cabs are stiffer and can be "tri-pod" float mounted if necessary. Since the cab is visible, I assume it will be aluminum as per above-linked story?

Aluminum falls in between steel and wood for stiffness per unit weight. As an example, a ten pound 4' x4' wood sheet is quite thick. The same size aluminum is thinner and 4' x 4' steel thinnest of all. The wood sheet is stiffest, slightly denser aluminum next and finally high density steel most flexing. A little realized fact is that strength is about equal per pound for most common building materials, with carbon fiber composite the notable exception.

We used aluminum sided coal hoppers on a railroad that I worked for. The aluminum sheet sides were about a half inch thick compared to 3/8-7/16 inch steel car box sides. Including aluminum side beams, they saved tare weight, but occasionaly broke. I felt the final run-in that broke an aluminum hopper car on my train, and could observe the bulging side after the fact in my mirror. The car was intact enough to continue to the next repair station. Mitigating the failure, the cars were typically overloaded. The under-carriage was still steel.

I think my old 2000 Excursion has an aluminum hood and tail doors, no big dents yet. The tail doors are surprisingly light, not easily latching from momentum only. They don't slam well, but it's not a problem.

The stop-and-go city driving from a lighter F-150 will benefit. One of the reasons hybrids such as the Prius gets such great city mpg is the fact that the dynamic braking regenerates the effort used to initially accelerate. Normally it is totally wasted in brake heat, so sans regeneration, the lighter the vehicle, the better. Most F-150's are used as daily drivers.

I think that Ford may also be trying to take advantage of popular beliefs that since aluminum works well for aircraft, it must also be superior for trucks. Not necessarily so, but I admire their innovation.

A lot of folks still disdain government EPA mandates, but we wouldn't have gotten the great vehicles we eventually have today, were it not for the fact that all manufacturers were forced to play by the same rules. A mixed blessing I guess.

Wes
...
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crickeydog
Explorer
Explorer
bmanning wrote:


Some "experts" predict 30mpg.


When pigs fly!!!

Happy camping!!! See y'all down the road!!!:)
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oilslick
Explorer
Explorer
There are many different types of aluminum some much harder than others and aluminum vehicles have been around a very long time. I think the mistake Ford is making is continuing to make the box from steel.

bmanning
Explorer
Explorer
More than anything I'm curious to see if the GVW, tow ratings, etc. change or remain consistent with the current offering.
BManning
baking in Phoenix :C
-2007 Volvo XC90 AWD V8
4.4L 311/325 V8 6sp Aisin loaded
6100lb GVW 5000lb tow
-1999 Land Cruiser
4.7L 230/320 V8 4sp A343 loaded
6860 GVW 6500lb tow
RV'less at the moment

Francesca_Knowl
Explorer
Explorer
Less weight might make a difference in town, where lower speed's the rule. Highway driving- nah. As mentioned before, at highway speeds it's almost all about aerodynamics except maybe on long uphill pulls.

I'm thinking the market for this pickup is grocery-getter/town "truck", so the lower weight fuel saving "advantage" will probably appeal to that market.
" Not every mind that wanders is lost. " With apologies to J.R.R. Tolkien

Chuck_thehammer
Explorer
Explorer
my question is...

reduce by 750 pounds.. but will the Frame be made stronger...??
the loss of weight will mean ..
less strong (weaker) springs/shocks/control arms!!!!!! Brakes... axles....

jake2250
Explorer
Explorer
An aluminum truck?? Dont want that!! I have hit some bugs going thru the mid west that would total an aluminum truck!! You think a hail storm causes damage? Imagine what a few big bugs will do to your hood?? I ran into a swarm of Dragon flies driving a semi,, Sounded like I was being shot at!! If you have ever traveled down I-5 in California from Sacramento to Bakersfield you have encountered the Swallows that nest under the over passes,, I have hit a few of them with a truck fairing and cracked it!! (the fairing), The bird disintegrates!!
Imagine a swallow smacking into an aluminum car or truck???

JaredWPhillips
Explorer
Explorer
I don't see this helping the RV industry. It will only effect daily driving/empty. I get the same 10mpg average with my 4500 lb camper that I got with my 2900lb camper and my 6500lb camper. It's all about wind-resistance when towing. Plus, I don't want a lightweight truck when towing. I want something that's going to be able to control the weight of a camper. I don't want a lightwight aluminum truck that an RV is going to push all over the road.
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hone_eagle
Explorer
Explorer
Reporter got at least one thing wrong I think , both plants will not be shut at the same time one will continue to build the 'classic' for a while until the aluminum gets up to speed been some delay already.
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Supercharged
Explorer
Explorer
RWDIII wrote:
My 2 cents is they will match Ram 1500 and say 25 MPG if they have the 8 sp.
Just for the heck of it I reduced my wt from 7700lbs to 7200 lb on my rig and gained .44mpg difference over a 950 mi trip.
went from 13.33 avg to 13.77
If you got a small 1/2 you would reduce it much more.
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RWDIII
Explorer
Explorer
My 2 cents is they will match Ram 1500 and say 25 MPG if they have the 8 sp.
Just for the heck of it I reduced my wt from 7700lbs to 7200 lb on my rig and gained .44mpg difference over a 950 mi trip.
went from 13.33 avg to 13.77
OLD 2006 F150 4wd 7200gvw,Lt275-65-18,Scan Guage,Garmin,flowmaster,load levelers,Firestone work rites Bronco 800

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WyoTraveler
Explorer
Explorer
I'm not surprised at better mpg for new F150. When towing you have to factor in wind resistance. Probably better mpg than older PUs. Most likely lower than what they say in their advertisement.